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  1. #1

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    Default Trouble shoot Rotel RMB 1075 w/Yamaha RXV663

    Hi,

    I'm a little new here but I need some help. I got my Rotel RMB 1075 via fedex today and hooked everything up... When it came time to "kick the tires and light the fires" though, I was really pulling my hair out

    I had everything hooked up right, but found a couple of issues.

    1.) I had the Rotel plugged into a power strip just to "test things out".
    2.) I had the 12v trigger set to the "on" position.

    Initially I got NO SOUND from any of my speakers (just my sub)??? I was totally baffled? Then after checking, rechecking and triple checking all my connections I started to toy with options? I switched the 12v trigger switch to "off" and amazingly got a "very little" bit of volume. Then after re-reading the owners manual for the Rotel, thought I'd better try plugging it in "directly" to the outlet. Bingo, MORE sound, but still not 100%?

    I was already planning on having an electrician out to put in a dedicated outlet with a 20 amp breaker just to make sure it gets enough juice (and I'm sure this will make all the difference) but I'm really surprised just how much power this thing apparently draws? Once I plugged in straight to the outlet (the other plug had a power strip plugged into it with lots of stuff on it) I still barely got decent sound at -10 db? Normally my Yamaha RX-V663 is screaming at this point, but not today?

    Anyway, has anyone had similar experience? If so what did you do and what were the results? I think my plan to have the dedicated outlet with 20amp service is truly the way to go, but is there anything else to do? Additionally I have ordered a Magic Power cord and Analog 2 interconnects from Signal Cable to take things to the "next level".

    Lastly, just so you know what I'm powering up, my system consists of:

    Yamaha RX-V663 av receiver
    Rotel RMB 1075 5x 200 @4ohms power amp
    Sony DVD/CD player model ?
    LSI-15 fronts
    LSI-C center
    LSI-FX surrounds
    JBL PB-10 1st sub
    Definitive Technology Supercube 1 2nd sub (to be delivered June 19th)
    for a 5.2 configuration


    I'd really appreciate your advice/input... I just want to make sure I get this right!

    Thanks very much

  2. #2

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    Anyone.... Bueller? Anyone????

  3. #3

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    Are there level controls on the back of your amp? Also does your Yami have pre outs? Most Yami's aren't the best for SQ.
    Hopefully someone with a similar AVR can help.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  4. #4

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    I don't think the problem is your power. Even without a dedicated circuit, it should play pretty loud. Did you buy the amp new, or used? Sounds like a problem with the amp.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Are there level controls on the back of your amp? Also does your Yami have pre outs? Most Yami's aren't the best for SQ.
    Hopefully someone with a similar AVR can help.
    Ben
    Nice knock on his equipment. The Yamaha does have pre outs. What would the SQ have to do with low output level? The Yamaha has enough voltage at the pre-outs to easily drive that amp.

  6. #6

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    does the Rotel amp have it's own volume knobs in the rear of it for each channel? if you got power.. adding a dedicated breaker isn't going to make it louder.

    it's not uncommon when you add an amp that you'd have to raise the volume more than you used to with the receiver. the deal here is that you are getting cleaner power to your speakers. if the volume is quite a bit lower, then there is some problem some where.

    I wonder if the pre outs on your receiver are too low for the amp?

  7. #7

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    also try removing or bypassing the 12v trigger.. and see if that makes any difference.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    Nice knock on his equipment. The Yamaha does have pre outs. What would the SQ have to do with low output level? The Yamaha has enough voltage at the pre-outs to easily drive that amp.
    Should I lie? I had a Yami myself. Then I upgraded to an HK. It was fine for HT, but the HK creamed it for music, and HT.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Should I lie? I had a Yami myself. Then I upgraded to an HK. It was fine for HT, but the HK creamed it for music, and HT.
    No need to lie, no need to bring up SQ at all, when he is asking why he's getting low output.

    I see too much knocking of equipment here on brand alone, usually by people who have not even heard the particular model in question.

  10. #10

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    Like you and cables
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Like you and cables
    No, not at all. When have you ever heard me say that someone's cable has bad SQ?

    Whatever...read #6 of the forum posting rules.

  12. #12

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    I would not hurt to recheck the channel levels on the AVR. Either using a SPL meter or the automated setup routine if it has one.
    AVR: Elite VSX-21TXH
    Amplifier: B&K 7250 Series ii
    Misc: Velodyne SMS-1
    Mains: RTi-10
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    Rear: Boston DSi460
    Sub: SVS PC-Ultra
    TV: Panasonic TC-P58V10
    DVD: Panasonic DMP-BD60K

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Should I lie? I had a Yami myself. Then I upgraded to an HK. It was fine for HT, but the HK creamed it for music, and HT.
    well that's really beside the point here.... whether you like this brand or that brand.. his audio is still low.. and we're trying to help him with that problem.

  14. #14

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    Thanks everyone...

    There are no line out level adjusters on the Rotel. Just goes straight in to the pre-outs on the back of the Yamaha.

    Previously I was using mono blocks with the pre-outs and had no difficulties. Is the Rotel THAT hungry for power?

    I'd be interested to here from anyone else with this or another Rotel power amp and what their experience has been?

    Thanks

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Are there level controls on the back of your amp? Also does your Yami have pre outs? Most Yami's aren't the best for SQ.
    Hopefully someone with a similar AVR can help.
    Ben
    What is "SQ"?

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by danger boy View Post
    does the Rotel amp have it's own volume knobs in the rear of it for each channel? if you got power.. adding a dedicated breaker isn't going to make it louder.

    it's not uncommon when you add an amp that you'd have to raise the volume more than you used to with the receiver. the deal here is that you are getting cleaner power to your speakers. if the volume is quite a bit lower, then there is some problem some where.

    I wonder if the pre outs on your receiver are too low for the amp?

    About raising the volume, just how much is acceptable? Prior to hooking up the Rotel yesterday a volume level of -20 db to -10 was MORE than adequate for HT and music too. After plugging in to the wall and getting the greater volume, I still had to turn it up to a +10 db or so to get what I used to get at -20 to -10 db? I was concerned I was gonna fry either the Yamaha or the Rotel.

    What kind of volume levels on the av receiver does anyone set to that's using a power amp / av receiver combo? Am I going to fry my equipment if I go into the positive db levels? As I said I NEVER had to do this before?

  17. #17

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    What sources and/or DSP modes are you using?

    How does it sound in 2 channel or 5 channel stereo mode?

    What levels are each of the individual channels set at? 0? +/- any?

    Lots of folks here use Rotel, and love them.

  18. #18

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    Reset the Yammy back to factory defaults and recalibrate again. Sounds like your levels are off.

    Do yourself a favor and search out how to properly calibrate you HT. I could tell you, but my fingers would get tired...

    Try reading THIS to get you started...

    I'm not trying to be a smartass, but you do need to get some of your learn on and figure some stuff out. Gonna have to sooner or later.
    Last edited by amulford; 06-18-2008 at 02:51 PM.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by orgthtogod View Post
    Thanks everyone...

    There are no line out level adjusters on the Rotel. Just goes straight in to the pre-outs on the back of the Yamaha.

    Previously I was using mono blocks with the pre-outs and had no difficulties. Is the Rotel THAT hungry for power? . . . Thanks
    So, your previous setup was also using the V663 as simply a preamp to the mono blocks? If that is the case, and if you still have your old amps, try switching the old amps back into the mix. To make it less of a hassle, just hook up one speaker initially, and start trouble shooting one component at a time. If your old system works with the one speaker, and all you do is swap out a mono block for the Rotel and it doesn't work, then you've narrowed it down to the Rotel - either being a configuration/setting issue of some sort, or the unit is defective.

    I would find it hard to believe that the Rotel's input sensitivity is that much different from any other amp that it would require a lot move voltage from the preamp. You mentioned that at first you had no sound, then switched off the 12v trigger and you got some sound. That is very strange. Moving the plug from a strip to an outlet should make no difference whatsoever.

    If you figure out the problem, please let us know.

    . . oh, and by the way, I think "SQ" = "sound quality".

    Regards.
    Last edited by skykeys; 06-18-2008 at 03:54 PM.

  20. #20

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    lame suggestions first - I assumed you checked to make sure it is not in "night" mode or the mute is on.

    If that model has the YPAO auto calibrate, I would run that first. While not a perfect method, it is pretty fast, and it gets you in the ball park. Also, what kind of ICs are you using? I think some brands are directional (don't ask me why) so you might try reversing the ends. If that does not work, I would plug the old amp back in to make sure it still works fine. If it does, I would conclude the Rotel a problem of some kind.
    Last edited by polktiger; 06-18-2008 at 03:37 PM.

  21. #21

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    Well,

    again thanks to all...

    I have concluded that power is DEFINITELY an issue here. I spoke to a guy here locally that deals in Rotel and though he didn't have much else to say that I haven't heard yet, he did offer this suggestion.

    Since I noticed a gain in volume going from the power strip to the plug try running the Rotel to another outlet that doesn't share ANYTHING else and see what happens. Also, make sure to use a heavy duty extension cord to run it to the other power source.

    I did all this and it made a BIG difference. I think that Rotel is just SUPER power hungry and if it doesn't get what it needs it doesn't perform to standard. It does after all mention briefly in the owners manual that it's performance can be greatly affected by the amount of power provided.

    "In fact, the limiting factor in the RMB-1075ís output levels will often be the capacity of your homeís electrical supply"
    This is a direct quote from the owners manual....


    I have done the calibration with the YPAO mic. and will re-do it again once proper power is attained. So far, strange as it may be, this seems to be the culprit here, power or lack there of.

    I think once I get my Magic Power cord & Analog 2 interconnects from Signal Cable and when the electrician comes out to provide dedicated 20 amp service, my equipment should be "singing" a different tune!

    Please keep your feedback coming and I will keep you posted. It will be next week before I have the electrician out, so stay tuned!

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by orgthtogod View Post
    What is "SQ"?
    SQ means sound quality. I run Adcom amps, and the line outs were to weak with my Yami. I upgraded to an HK which was maxing out its line outs to get full volume(I think the level read +6db). After that I upgraded to an Outlaw 990, and that was a little better. I am going to be in, and out of here, but I will look up the required voltage for your Rotel later this evening. Maybe someone else who has driven a Rotel with a similar model as yours can help in the mean time. Just a quick question. Are all the channel at a low level? Have you tried hooking up the front line outs from the Yami to the rear inputs on the Rotel to see if the Rotel is operating properly?
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by orgthtogod View Post
    What is "SQ"?
    SQ = sound quality


    I still don't think it has anything to do with the power it's getting or not getting. if it powers up and doesn't trip your circuit breaker.. it's fine for now.. yes you can install a dedicated 20amp breaker. but if your home is 10 yrs old or less. I would think it's circuit breakers and amps are fine.

    If you have another recevier or pre amp to try it out on that would help.

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    Ok. i just read the whole thread.. i guess the Rotel needs the proper amount of current for it to perform at it's best.

    I learned something today.. odd, since I don't think other amps operate that same way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danger boy View Post
    Ok. i just read the whole thread.. i guess the Rotel needs the proper amount of current for it to perform at it's best.

    I learned something today.. odd, since I don't think other amps operate that same way.
    Seconded. Very odd.

    Also the whole "heavy duty extension chord" is odd. You're using an extension chord with your amp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by phuz View Post
    Seconded. Very odd.

    Also the whole "heavy duty extension chord" is odd. You're using an extension chord with your amp?
    I think he was just testing his amp with the extension cord to have it isolated from the power strip.

    as amps are driven harder.. they do require more current.. but for it to no operate the volume at full level because it's not getting the proper amount of current from the wall outlet, I've never heard of that.

    But then again, I'm not totally up to date with Rotel amps. I guess it does mention it in the users manual. so it's true.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by phuz View Post
    Seconded. Very odd.

    Also the whole "heavy duty extension chord" is odd. You're using an extension chord with your amp?

    Extension cord is ONLY to trouble shoot and see if "more" power does the job... by the way, it's a power tool heavy gauge type.

    Now then, just to update ya'll as I've been fiddling... The power I'm getting with a "solo" outlet via the extension cord mentioned above, seems to be the ticket! I re calibrated the settings with the YPAO mic and put in Gladiator in DTS to try it out.

    WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! Night and day different!!! My sound levels are back within "normal" ranges and with a notable improvement due to the extra power ala the Rotel!~ I seem to be on the right track with the power contrary to what may be popular belief.

    I was just watching the first battle sequences and a bit after in Gladiator and the detail is phenomenal. Not sure if any one else has ever had my experience but proper power makes a BIG difference with the Rotel.

    FYI, about my house and it's electrical "up to dateness" the house was built in 1963 so it's a little out dated you could say. The electrician coming out will be a much welcomed improvement to my system.

    I will update you after he comes out next week for sure. My stuff from Signal Cable should arrive while I'm gone too. So, I'll have dedicated service AND good power and interconnections!

  28. #28

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    OK, people:
    1) The Rotel is not a class A amp. The spec'd power consumption is 800 watts, so it should only be having issues at full tilt w/ 4 ohm speakers. You will see a current surge on power-on to charge the caps, but once it's up, it won't pull the full 800 watts till you crank it.
    2) The input sensitivity is 1 volt. The yamaha should drive this easily. I've driven 2v inputs no problem w/ a similar yamaha.

    Conclusion:
    1)There's a major issue with the electrics in his house or
    2)The yamaha is not properly set up and has trimmed the outputs way down or
    3)The rotel is broken in some way.

    I've had TERRIBLE results with the YPAO setup, so i would go in and set all the trim levels to zero and see what happens.
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  29. #29

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    Dude, you need to go find the breaker that it was on with the low volume levels and flip it back and forth a few times, if not replace it... What you've just described is what happens on an overloaded circuit with a fused breaker- major fire hazard.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
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  30. #30

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    so for reference purposes in order to get your wow sound at what volume level are you puting your receiver? according to your earlier thread you used to get -20 to -10 db.
    what now?
    Current HT setup
    Mains: B&W 804s
    Center: Polk CSi5
    Surround: Polk FXi3
    Sub: Velodyne DLS-3750R
    Receiver: Pioneer SC-07
    Amplifier: Sunfire TGA5200
    TV: Sony KDS60A2020
    DBP: Sony DBP-S350
    CDP: Pioneer DV-48AV
    Interconnect cables: SignalCable analog II
    speaker cables: SignalCable Ultra Speaker Cables Bi-wire

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