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  1. #1

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    Default HOLY HOLOGRAMS!!! Carver C-9

    Picked up one of these here Sonic Hologram Generators at the thrift store A few weeks ago and finally got around to hooking it up today.

    I know I posted this as a review but I haven't had enough time to make many serious comments yet so here's some quick first impressions:

    #1- , , :p
    (reference material-Vinyl "Die Zauberflote" Berlin Philharmonic Karajan conducting. Deutsche Grammophon)
    Sound stage was just blown apart. Not concert hall exactly... more like you're sitting in the pit. Wife even got big eyes and said "wow" Kinda fun.

    #2- , :o , :(
    (reference material-CD The Asylum Choir- Look Inside)
    Certain percussion bits sounded like they were coming from WAY out in left field. Fun at first until I noticed that the center of the sound-stage felt very weak. Then in the more "straight laced" (ie not psychedelic) songs it got just plain annoying.

    #3-:o , :p ,
    (reference material-Ipod Vampire Weekend "Mansard Roof")
    Once again, kinda fun but in combo with the heavy reverb on the recording things got a bit "bathroom" sounding.


    I'll continue to play with placement and whatnot but for now I call "gimmick"
    Albeit a neat one.

    So I've never listened to any of y'all's beloved SDA's before, is this effect similar?




    Ahhh crap..............I just saw that i misspelled the title and I cant change it.....
    and I thought i might look clever.......:)
    Last edited by Kenneth Swauger; 08-19-2010 at 11:17 PM.
    Baby Einstein has never sounded so good.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Hayes View Post

    So I've never listened to any of y'all's beloved SDA's before, is this effect similar?




    Ahhh crap..............I just saw that i misspelled the title and I cant change it.....
    and I thought i might look clever.......:)
    Yep, only a whole better and whole lot more natural and whole lot more fun!

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  3. #3

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    Some says the C-1 is the best Carver Hologram Preamp. But some says C9, C2 and C4000.

    Hell, I don't know which one is it.

    But if you like the Holograms, SDA might be for you.

    But Rev., Holiness shines outside of Holograms and SDA shrine too, just think you might interest to know.

  4. #4

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    Hi Rev,

    I'm not sure what you're describing is like what I hear from my setup. When you say the soundstage was "blown apart", and the presentation was as if you were in the orchestra pit, that conjures up a chaotic presentation of the music.

    For me, the SDA effect is just the opposite. I think SDA's present an absolutely coherent soundstage, but each instrument assumes a precise location within that soundstage. Left or right, distance from floor and distance from back wall is focused and clear.

    You need to get your hands on some SDA's, compare, and report back :)
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    Hi Rev,

    I'm not sure what you're describing is like what I hear from my setup. When you say the soundstage was "blown apart", and the presentation was as if you were in the orchestra pit, that conjures up a chaotic presentation of the music.

    For me, the SDA effect is just the opposite. I think SDA's present an absolutely coherent soundstage, but each instrument assumes a precise location within that soundstage. Left or right, distance from floor and distance from back wall is focused and clear.

    You need to get your hands on some SDA's, compare, and report back :)
    "Blown apart" may not be the best way to put it. Blown up is more like it. The sound stage was enveloping. When I first hit the button it sounded like my room size doubled. But it was a tad chaotic. Instruments were more defined but some sounded like they were coming from almost behind me.


    As far as the SDA comparison.......

    I fully agree.

    They show up for sale around here from time to time but the best deal I've seen so far was a pair of 2b's for $250 and it's hard to justify when I've never listened to them before. Especially as my house is very small and acoustically challenged.

    Perhaps some friendly polkie would like to invite me over for a taste. :D


    P.S. right now I'm checking out Miles Davis' Sketches of Spain. It's sounding much more natural. (or maybe I'm just getting used to it)
    Baby Einstein has never sounded so good.

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    If you have a C-9, play with the speaker positions and angles a bit to find a sweet spot.
    >
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    >This message has been scanned by the NSA and found to be free of harmful intent.<

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polkersince85 View Post
    If you have a C-9, play with the speaker positions and angles a bit to find a sweet spot.
    I'm on it. Been scratching up the hardwood all afternoon.

    To much toe in just ruins it. Right now I'm about 7' away with the speakers 10" out and about 6' apart and it seems better when I lean in...... I dunno. Beer number three here may also be starting to alter the qualities
    Baby Einstein has never sounded so good.

  8. #8

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    Good for you Rev! Glad you're enjoying it. Carver have a solid reputation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Hayes View Post

    To much toe in just ruins it. Right now I'm about 7' away with the speakers 10" out and about 6' apart and it seems better when I lean in......
    This would probably mean that you should spread them out more. Try to create an equilateral triangle with your head and speaks. Because when you lean in, you're gettting the same effect as spreading the speakers out some more (minus the room effects:)).

    Keep us posted. I'm sure your soundstage will lock on once you get the right position.
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    You would think a Reverend would know how to spell "holy". :D
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    It doesn't say where you live in the name box. I'd invite you over if you live in the southeast.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies . I am glad to be a part of a select group that tries to take our auditory and visual senses to a higher level: we EXPERIENCE them.... GOT SDA?...GOT SUNFIRE? ...GOT Maggies?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony millard View Post
    It doesn't say where you live in the name box. I'd invite you over if you live in the southeast.
    Hey tony,


    I forgot that I'd left my location in the cooler. I live in the Triangle as you now see. It's been hot lately as you well know. If you meant it I'm not that far. :)
    Baby Einstein has never sounded so good.

  12. #12

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    There is an entire backstory about SDA vs. Sonic Holography. I am not privy to any of the details, but I do believe that SDA is the best of the two. I have tried SH with my LSi-15's and it just sounds fake to me in the same manner that two channel "surround sound" does.
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    I've owned a C-9 two different times, and while it's "Sonic Holography can be fun, it is VERY source specific. There is never a way to tell whether an album will sound good until the unit is engaged. If you have large library and intend to keep the C-9, I would suggest you create a labeling system to when it is worthy to bring it into the loop.
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    Play around with the other buttons too. Injection ratio can make quite a difference as can listening aperature. Changing listening aperature widens/narrows the sweet spot. Injection ratio controls how much "effect" is heard. I found with orchestral music I preferred no sonic holography. With rock it's very cool on the right LP. Try Santana's Abraxas for the widest soundstage. Abraxas is great with SDA as well. But never use SH and SDA together; it just plain sounds weird. By the way I have both the C-9 stand alone and the C-1 pre amp and the two sound nearly identical as far as SH goes. Enjoy!!!

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  15. #15

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    Pink Floyd: A Momentary Lapse of Reason has some ASTOUNDING effects with S/H!

    That said, I could never get a good effect with my Klipsch RF-83s like I can get with the Carver ribbons. It's simply magical with them.

    DO NOT mix SDAs & S/H; utter incoherent mess.
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  16. #16

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    I have a C-9 also and on some CD's I will have it on and others I turn it off. It works well with some recordings but not with others. You just have to figure out which ones it does well with.
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    Another bit of info on sonic holography. I use a Carver CT-Seven as a pre when I'm ripping vinyl and if I leave SH on while recording, the digital file also has the effect. In other words you can record with SH and if you make a cd later it will have SH embedded. Great for the car but just strange on the home stereo where I have SDA's.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fongolio View Post
    Another bit of info on sonic holography. I use a Carver CT-Seven as a pre when I'm ripping vinyl and if I leave SH on while recording, the digital file also has the effect. In other words you can record with SH and if you make a cd later it will have SH embedded. Great for the car but just strange on the home stereo where I have SDA's.
    You do not want to use sonic holography with your SDA's.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by thuffman03 View Post
    You do not want to use sonic holography with your SDA's.
    Oh, I know. Combining the two makes for the weirdest sound stage you'll ever here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Hayes View Post
    Hey tony,


    I forgot that I'd left my location in the cooler. I live in the Triangle as you now see. It's been hot lately as you well know. If you meant it I'm not that far. :)
    I can attest to the hot part. Tony helped me with out with "to see and do in Wilmington" suggestions 2 weeks ago when my family and I vacationed there for 10 days. I'm just sorry we didn't get to drop in and say hi to Tony, but you can imagine how vacations with 6 people go.

    Rev, with SDA SRS 2's, Tony can definitely conjure up the whole effect. Everyone loves 1C's, but only SRS 1's and 2's sport the 15" passives that makes all the difference in the world.
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  21. #21

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    Ok


    After a couple days of pushing the buttons and sliding the speakers around I can say for sure:

    This thing is pretty cool. I'm extra hyped about the possibility of recording the effect as Fongolio talked about.

    I will say that it has introduced a good bit of noise into my system, which was near black.

    Also, as everyone else has already stated, a positive result from the "hologram" is VERY source specific. I may skip the labeling that markmarc suggested due to the fact that you can tell mighty quick whether or not it sounds good and just turn it back off. Actually I think I'm going to leave it off most of the time and only kick it in when I suspect that the tunes may benefit.

    Verdict: If you see one sitting on the shelf of a thrift store for $2 GRAB IT. It's a lot of fun.

    This has made me even more excited to here "SDA" for the first time. *ahemmm... (tony).... *cough;)
    Baby Einstein has never sounded so good.

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    I just got settled in tonight.:D

    Your more than welcomed to hear my SDA-SRS2s anytime but right now I need two RDO-194 tweeters that have been on order for a couple of weeks or more. I bought a set of SDA-CRSs and took my RDOs out to pay towards the total instead of all cash. I thought the RDOs would be here by now but I read alot of people are waiting for some too.
    The older tweeters that are in the CRSs have a harsh sound in the 10KH so I have to buy 2 more for them now also. I didn't think the tweeters were bad when I auditioned(heard really, since I had no idea I would be buying them) them earlier. Oh well... Now the CRSs need new RDOs sooner than I expected.:(

    So, Rev., My speakers are not 100% right now, but they will be soon! Then when I receive the tweeters they should break in for about 40 hrs. of playtime to mellow out. So give me some time.

    There is another member up by you who owned or still owns a few SDA speakers and I know he'd be glad to show you to if he still owns a set.

    Caution: There have been 4 people who after hearing these amazing SRS2s, went out or started searching that night or in the next days following for their own sets. Two people made road trips and bought the same and bigger within 2 days.;)

    I feel it's very hard to find a set of speakers for what these sound like for under 5,000.00.

    The experience will change the way you perceive what great sound should sound like unless you've heard a 10,000.00 system or something thereabouts. Even then, the SDA affect is an aural pleasure all it's own.;)

    I heard you mention sound out of darkness. That's a great observation to make notice of where sound comes from. I love hearing that effect to and also the voices sounding so ALIVE right in front of me coming from where NO speaker is.

    The people who have heard these cannot believe that just the twoSDA-SRSs are making the beautiful sounds that they hear. Wide eyed and smiles from I would say everyone who has heard them, including myself.
    And I get to hear it everyday if I choose now. I have already posted pics of my speakers in post a pic. anypic. thread and today I give thanks for , thread, so I can't add the set up here. But if you search any thread , you'll see my wall of sound sortof. That couch is one comfortable seat to listen to music in. Many have commented on that too.

    Tony

    The sweet spot:
    Last edited by Tony M; 12-29-2010 at 10:16 PM.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies . I am glad to be a part of a select group that tries to take our auditory and visual senses to a higher level: we EXPERIENCE them.... GOT SDA?...GOT SUNFIRE? ...GOT Maggies?

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    You would think a Reverend would know how to spell "holy". :D
    Ya Know...I was going to say that very thing....blame the beer.
    Glad to see you like your new toy Rev. Enjoy.

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    If you are going to play around with SH, I'd advise you to get a copy of the very specific set up instructions, and follow them before you come to any "final" conclusions.:)

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    I've played with SH over the years and it's as cool as SDA, although as mentioned a bit more sensitive to actual material. The combination is simply weird. I've never noticed any equipment issues between the two ideas and have run a SRT SDA box on a pair of Carver Amazings as well. Not that it has anything to do with SH as a stand-alone setup, just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gdb View Post
    If you are going to play around with SH, I'd advise you to get a copy of the very specific set up instructions, and follow them before you come to any "final" conclusions.:)
    Instructions you say.......hmmmmmm. I never did like those things.

    Guess I'll do a search.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai View Post
    I've never noticed any equipment issues between the two ideas and have run a SRT SDA box on a pair of Carver Amazings as well. Not that it has anything to do with SH as a stand-alone setup, just saying.
    SRT SDA box?

    Is it the controller for that home theater set? How does that work?
    Baby Einstein has never sounded so good.

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    It's just a controller much like the C9 for use with the Polk SRT HT package. You can find out more in a search.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Hayes View Post
    Instructions you say.......hmmmmmm. I never did like those things. Guess I'll do a search.
    I have a Carver C-1 manual with very detailed instruction on how to set up SH. It's in .pdf format so I'll try sending it to you. Might need a proper email address though. PM me you email addy and I'll send the file.

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    Kelvin,

    PM sent.

    Thanks!
    Ashley
    Baby Einstein has never sounded so good.

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    Having not heard either but considering how many avtive devices(opamps)that are added to the signal path with SH IME the entirely acoustic approach of the SDA's should prove more transparent.
    Last edited by FTGV; 08-22-2010 at 12:04 PM.

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