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  1. #1

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    Default Ceiling Acoustic Treatment

    I am planning my next project for the audio room. The project will consist of designing, constructing and implementing acoustical treatment for the ceiling. The horizontal dimensions are treated using a combination of tube traps and diffusion panels. The third dimension has carpet on the floor with a bare ceiling. The intent of this project is to remove this third untreated dimension from the acoustic signature of the room.

    From my research, I have created rough plans to create a 4’ x 8’ panel which incorporates absorption as well as reflectors to trap direct sound from the monitors, yet preserve room energy. Combining both features into the acoustical treatment panel should not over damp the room. I am also aiming to appreciably reduce the floor/ceiling resonant mode within the room.

    My design is untested at this time as I have not found any reference to this particular design in a single panel. I was wondering if anyone has experimented with ceiling acoustical treatment in their room. I would be interested hearing what you did and the results of the project.

    I am planning on ordering the on-line materials this week as well it will take several weeks for the items to arrive. This would leave me time to revise my design should any additional information be discovered.

    Thanks for your time.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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  2. #2

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    It seems that one large panel is going to be quite elaborate. My room has several traps both low and high frequency. From what I've read, diffusion can get a little dicey depending on how far your sitting from the diffusor.

    I've had terrific luck talking on the phone with Ethan at Real Traps about pro and homemade traps. Might want to check his site out and peruse all the info available there if you haven't already.

    Please keep us advised on your progress. I'd be very interested in hearing your results.
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  3. #3

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    I applaude your creativity in wanting to design your own panel. But then again it almost like recreating the wheel. There are quite a few very good pro companies that do make these panels & have a lot of science behind there final designs. Have you looked at companies like RealTraps, GIK Acoustisc, Auralex, & others? Maybe they have something that will fit the bill for what you're trying to do.

    Or maybe you just like to tinker & really want to build it yourself. If that's the case, go for it & keep us posted on the final design & the results.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
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  4. #4

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    Gentlemen, thank you for taking the time to respond.

    I have been researching room acoustics for about five years and have read a lot of material both published and online. I have visited Ethan’s personal and business sites as well as other acoustic company sites many times to review the material offered. There are also other sites which have a wealth of acoustic information.

    I am looking to create an item with specific acoustic properties. This item is conceptually based on the ceiling acoustic control technique of a dedicated two channel audio room designed by Rives. The owner has documented the construction process as well as the finished results. I have noted similar acoustic control mechanisms are being implemented in new rooms recently constructed.

    The only commercially available product I have found which might have the same acoustical properties I am trying to implement are ASC Matrix panels. A 24” x 48” panel lists for $522. I would like to have the coverage of four panels.

    I would rather order a completed item as I would like to immediately enjoy the benefits. For about 15% of the above cost, I can create a panel which might provide the benefits I am looking for. I feel this is worth the risk and labor to implement. If it does not work as expected, it will be easy to modify to a conventional panel.

    I also have ideas for other acoustic items I would like to construct and test, but that will be another story.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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  5. #5

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    The ceiling panel has been assembled. Before I finished the project, I wanted to verify that it was beneficial and not detrimental to the sonic characteristics of the room. It is now in place without the cloth cover and oak trim (cosmetic functionality only) and still requires some final detailing before completion.

    I have been listening for the past while to the new acoustic signature of the room. There is a completely new level of intricacy and detail within the music I had not noted before. Even when visiting the local audio shops to listen to some of the six figure audio systems with the same music, I have not noted this information.

    My design appears to be functioning as planned. With the ceiling panel installed, the sonic characteristics of the room have significantly exceeded my expectations of what I initially set out to accomplish.

    I don't understand why more people pause their pursuit of 'gear' and focus on the acoustics of the room. Optimizing the room is where the real performance gains are made. Once this is complete, you will be able to hear what the components actually sound like.

    The present system configuration within the room:
    • - Balanced Power Technologies BP-2.5 (with Bybee Quantum Purifiers, differential noise filter)
    • - VPI Scout Signature TT (super platter, periphery ring clamp)
    • - PS Audio P300 power regulator for TT motor speed regulation
    • - ZYX phono cartridge
    • - Motorola digital cable box (40 music channels)
    • - Pioneer DV-59avi (transport)
    • - Museatex Bitstream DAC
    • - Simaudio P-5 pre-amp (Hi-fi Tuning fuse)
    • - dbx active crossover (would like to replace with a 2-way Merchand XM44 @80Hz)
    • - Simaudio W-3 amp (Hi-fi Tuning fuse)
    • - Dynaudio Confidence C1 monitors mounted on Stand 4 filled with lead shot
    • - (2) SVS PC-Ultra subs (Hi-fi Tuning fuses)
    • - Moray James Digital IC
    • - Mix of Nordost Frey and Harmonic Technology ICs
    • - Nordost Frey speaker cables
    • - PS Audio power cables
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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  6. #6

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    jm1,

    Glad to hear your experiment met your expectations. I am in agreement with you that the room must be considered an equal "component" in the scheme of things. I've heard it said that a mid-fi system in a treated room will smoke a hi-fi system in an untreated room.

    I believe the thrill of purchasing new or used electronics far exceeds the thrill of buying a mundane 2 X 4 panel to hang on the wall. They have no lights to see or connectors to connect which is a large part of this hobby.

    Your Dynaudio C1 are a very nice speaker. I listened to them on 5 different ocassions and was that close to making a pair mine. The tweeters were almost completely bearable to my ears. If I did not have hearing damage, they would be home now. No fault of the speaker for sure.

    If you have any photos of your ceiling trap I'd be interested in seeing them. Thanks for sharing your views on treating the room.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
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  7. #7

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    It's all about the room...otherwise your gear & speakers are not living up to their full potential.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
    Panny 65" 3D Plasma
    Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A3010 AVR
    D>SONIC M2-600M mono's / mains
    Rotel RMB-1095 / 5 channel amp
    Rotel RMB-1075 / 5 channel amp
    TEAC UD - 501 DAC
    Oppo BDP-93
    SONOS System
    KEF Q900 / mains
    KEF Q600 / center
    KEF Q800 / surrounds
    KEF Q100 / rear surr.
    Def Tech ProMonitor 1000 / front & rear presence
    Velodyne SPL-1200R subs / dual pair
    DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 sub EQ
    Equitech Balanced Power Son of Q 1.5R
    Extensive room treatments

  8. #8

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    Gordon,

    The room is equal to or more important than the sum of the components. When I started, the older components I had at the time sounded significantly better once room treatment was introduced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    I believe the thrill of purchasing new or used electronics far exceeds the thrill of buying a mundane 2 X 4 panel to hang on the wall. They have no lights to see or connectors to connect which is a large part of this hobby.
    All that glitters is not gold. The true wealth is in the more mundane aspects of the hobby this time.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
    Arthur Schopenhauer

  9. #9

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    If you haven't done so already, you might want to email the folks at GIK acoustics... I knwo they routinely help people w/ DIY projects; really nice people there...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm1 View Post

    The room is equal to or more important than the sum of the components.
    Couldn't agree more.I have added several DIY treatments to my room with noticeable gains in SQ.However I have not yet added any treatment to the ceiling due to aestetic reasons ie.WAF.I would be interested in seeing pics of how you did yours.

    btw.thats a fine system you have assembled.;)

  11. #11

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    A couple years ago I attended an outdoor event which featured different performers (among them was the Led Zeppelin Show; they performed a “How the West Was Won” show). The concert sounded better than most audiophile sound systems. The event used standard PA equipment but the acoustic environment was not constrained to an enclosure (room). This inspired me to reexamine my room and perform another round of acoustical treatment.

    The system has not changed in some time as there really is no need and would be a significant investment for an incremental improvement. The only changes have been the optimization of the placement of the monitor/subs as well as treatments and their interaction together.

    Most of the current round of treatment has been installed. Some could say I have gone overboard in what is necessary for listening purposes. I feel that I am only approaching the point where I will be content.

    The current installation includes four ceiling clouds flanking the center ceiling treatment on all sides and the replacement of on-wall treatment directly behind/above the monitors/subs.

    Going into this project, I was unsure of the extent or if this would provide any improvements. The installation of the above mentioned treatment provided a significant improvement. Had I understood the level of improvement, I would not have waited as long to complete these items. I will now finish the rest of the items for installation ASAP.

    As the TV hasn’t been used for years, now might be the time to give it to the kids for their games and get it out of the room. It really doesn’t matter at this time as I have optimized around it so might just leave it in place.

    I was not entirely correct when I stated “The room is equal to or more important than the sum of the components.”

    I believe it would be better stated as “The room more important than the sum of the components.”

    Click image for larger version

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    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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  12. #12

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    Jm1, are those some kind of helmsholtz resonator tubes in the pics??? Tube bass traps???
    Last edited by Polkie2009; 03-04-2013 at 08:44 PM.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jm1 View Post
    I am looking to create an item with specific acoustic properties. This item is conceptually based on the ceiling acoustic control technique of a dedicated two channel audio room designed by Rives. The owner has documented the construction process as well as the finished results. I have noted similar acoustic control mechanisms are being implemented in new rooms recently constructed.

    The only commercially available product I have found which might have the same acoustical properties I am trying to implement are ASC Matrix panels. A 24” x 48” panel lists for $522. I would like to have the coverage of four panels.
    Can you provide a link for the construction process?
    ____________________________
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  14. #14

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    Very interesting...I will try this in my man cave. Thanks.

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