OK, I have a dilemma...

[bms]

If you look at my sig., you'll see I'm stuck with a receiver with no pre-outs or hdmi, and now I own rti8's.

Question is, do I buy last year's model Denon 2808, Denon 988, or an Onkyo 805, which are great deals right now, or do I look at the new models - 2809, 806?

You see, I still have an old 32" Quasar tv, and I don't need hdmi, but I will eventually when I upgrade to a hd television.

I'm sooo darn decisive!

[cfrizz]

How soon do you think you will upgrade your tv?

[tcrossma]

You don't need HDMI when using HD. I use component and it works just fine for me. HDMI is good for a single video+audio solution, and in some cases it can yield some improvements in video quality. HDMI also has some benefits when it comes to DVD->Receiver/PrePro in terms of passing digital audio to the receiver. But in my opinion it's not necessary to upgrade to HDMI solely for the purpose of HD video.

[nikolas812]

You don't need HDMI when using HD. I use component and it works just fine for me. HDMI is good for a single video+audio solution, and in some cases it can yield some improvements in video quality. HDMI also has some benefits when it comes to DVD->Receiver/PrePro in terms of passing digital audio to the receiver. But in my opinion it's not necessary to upgrade to HDMI solely for the purpose of HD video.

Spot on.


Couldn't have said it better.



Nick

[WilliamM2]

While he doesn't need HDMI, since he's looking to upgrade to a reciever with pre-outs, and is planning on updating his TV, it would be foolish to buy one without it.

[bms]

How soon do you think you will upgrade your tv?

When this one dies - it's about 15 yrs. old.

Or if it "accidently" falls out of the entertainment center!

[dorokusai]

HDMI is a pretty constant reality at this point so keep that connection on the radar.

I suggest upgrading beyond your actual needs, since they may change down the road. A single component could make everything you've done worthless when you're years behind in the first place. As long as you keep it in pocketbook perspective, you'll be fine.

[lakesailor]

Keep in mind HMDI has gone from version 1.0 when it as first introduced not so many years ago up to version 1.1 followed by 1.2 and now we are one 1.3. Odds are if you are not purchasing a new TV asap they will be on to version 1.5 (or higher) in the next few years anyways. Thus unless you plan on taking advantage of HDMI right away (and there are some advantages) don’t waste the money on the HDMI feature in an AVR until you really need it.

[billbillw]

I've seen the Onkyo SR805 refurbished from shoponkyo.com for only $499 with free shipping lately. Even less when they run a 10% off deal (many weekends).

They sell out quick, so check daily. To me, that is an unbeatable deal.

With the SR805, the need for external amplification is questionable. That thing can drive all 7 channels continuously to 120 watts at less than .1% distortion. It really has gobs of power reserve.
http://hometheatermag.com/compactspe...nk/index5.html

Most people who have problems with the 805 are due to older firmware issues, which should be a non-issue with the newest ones coming from Onkyo. I love mine. It does run hot though, so if you have a closed cabinet, you will need some sort of active ventilation.

[doggie750]

Got multiple 2cents from the several GURUS in the forum that you might be interested. Goodluck on upgrading! I am on the same boat.

[leroyjr1]

When this one dies - it's about 15 yrs. old.

Or if it "accidently" falls out of the entertainment center!

Them tube tv's will run forever. Mine accidently fell out a couple years back:D

[bms]

Got multiple 2cents from the several GURUS in the forum that you might be interested. Goodluck on upgrading! I am on the same boat.

Dog, how about a link?

[daniel_paul_]

I had the same dilema as you. I have the same setup but with an onkyo 601. I got a H/K 525 for $300 used. It's 70 watts and I have not found a need to get an external amp. The onkyo would stop before I wanted it to. The H/K goes well above my limit. I do not use HDMI.

Do you want power or the latest-and-greatest with power? Thats a budget question.

[JoeLR]

Tough dilemma.. Were it me, I'd probably go for the AVR w/ the most complete feature set.. I know that's against commonly held opinion due to obsolescence, just my opinion. It's just a matter of trying to balance features in exchange for the price you pay, and only you can decide that aspect of it. Hav efun researching!!

[mmadden28]

If you look at my sig., you'll see I'm stuck with a receiver with no pre-outs or hdmi, and now I own rti8's.

Question is, do I buy last year's model Denon 2808, Denon 988, or an Onkyo 805, which are great deals right now, or do I look at the new models - 2809, 806?

You see, I still have an old 32" Quasar tv, and I don't need hdmi, but I will eventually when I upgrade to a hd television.

I'm sooo darn decisive!

I don't think much has changed between the Onk 805 and 806. IIRC the 806 upscales to 1080p while the 805 is 1080i (which may or may not matter if your TV upscales to 1080p or if your device (Bluray, etc does its own 1080p upscaling, you could just route direct to the TV and bypass the video on the Onk). A few other minor changes as well I can't remember right now. Check out the specs at thier site. The 805 I bought was a factory refurb and was like new-I personally would by another if I needed one.
It has all the latest audio codecs so its still current.
In addition to Onk direct, Ecost.com is an auth resller for Onk, and they usually have the refurbs on the cheap. Right now $476, but currently out of stock. Just keep checking if you go that route.
I never really tried the internal 805 amp-I went straight to an external amp so I can't comment on its driving power. Normally I would have done some comparisons but its extremely difficult to work in my cramped entertainment center-no rear access. One day I will though.

If you do decide to go with a separate amp-you won't need to concern yourself with the AVR's output wattage.

Good luck

[bms]

OK, now I'm looking at the H/K AVR354. It could be had for around $700.00 new. I've read a lot about the receivers and it seems they're a step above Onkyo or Denon. So,

H/K AVR 354 - $600.00-$700.00 new
Denon 2808 - $585.00 new
Onkyo 805 - $400.00 (used from Hydrostream)
Onkyo 805 - $629.00 new
Onkyo 806 - $800.00ish new
Onkyo 706 - $700.00

Other Denon's, too much $$$, other Onkyo's either too much $$$ or no pre-outs.

Again, I'm not really in a hurry, but new models have just been released, so there are deals to be had.

Opinions?

[McLoki]

Does the 603 really drive your RTi8's that badly? They should not really require a separate amp. Have you heard them with separates and looking for a different sound? What are you trying to fix with more power? Do you have them set to small with an 80hz (or so) crossover?

Before you throw money at a problem -make sure you are going to get the solution you are looking for.

Michael

[Kex]

OK, now I'm looking at the H/K AVR354....

How about the 254? It's on amazon.com for under $400 with free shipping ... Does the 354 make that big a difference? The 254 will probably still blow the pants off most other receivers IMO. Maybe it's worth looking at and you can let us all know what you find out.

[bms]

Does the 603 really drive your RTi8's that badly? They should not really require a separate amp. Have you heard them with separates and looking for a different sound? What are you trying to fix with more power? Do you have them set to small with an 80hz (or so) crossover?

Before you throw money at a problem -make sure you are going to get the solution you are looking for.

Michael

No, it does OK. I guess I'm looking to the future - pre-outs and hdmi, and I'm worried that if I don't try to upgrade and sell my 603 soon, I may as well forget trying to sell it at all. It's more of a matter of wanting to do it rather than having to do it, I guess.

I have tried crossing them at 80hz and 60hz, small and large, and 80 sounds better - not much difference between large and small.

They system actually does sound good, but there's always something better, right?

[Kex]

... It's more of a matter of wanting to do it rather than having to do it, I guess.

... but there's always something better, right?

Sounds like a severe case of upgraditis to me ... there is only one know cure, but it is not always successful: get the new gear. If the cure doesn't work, you'll have to get even more new gear later and cross your fingers that the cure works before your bank account suffers beyond redemption.

[bms]

How about the 254? It's on amazon.com for under $400 with free shipping ... Does the 354 make that big a difference? The 254 will probably still blow the pants off most other receivers IMO. Maybe it's worth looking at and you can let us all know what you find out.

Well, it's 50wpc and the 354 is 75. I don't know enough about H/K's, but it's worth looking into.

I pretty much know the 354 will, but will the 254 out-perform my 603, anyone?

[bms]

Sounds like a severe case of upgraditis to me ... there is only one know cure, but it is not always successful: get the new gear. If the cure doesn't work, you'll have to get even more new gear later and cross your fingers that the cure works before your bank account suffers beyond redemption.

Oh, it's definitely upgradeitis, no question about it! I'm trying to be mature and practical, but you know...

[Kex]

Well, it's 50wpc and the 354 is 75. I don't know enough about H/K's, but it's worth looking into.

I pretty much know the 354 will, but will the 254 out-perform my 603, anyone?

Both will be excellent, IMO. The 254 will smoke the 603, despite the apparent difference in power ratings. The h/k is rated all channels driven, at 0.07% distortion. The Onkyo is rated two channels driven at 0.08% distortion.

If you stay with a receiver, and money is no object (at these relatively "reasonable" prices for audio gear), get the 354 ... more clean power is always better. If there is a chance you might get external amplifiers anyway at some later stage, then just get the 254 and keep the difference since you will only be using it as a processor eventually, and there would be no point in paying for the extra w/ch of the 354.

[Kex]

... I'm trying to be mature and practical, but you know...

That is pointless ... besides, if you have some spare cash (and are not putting this on your credit card in these tumultuous times) upgrading is fun and I really do think you will be pleased with the difference between either the h/k 254 or 354 and the Onkyo.

[McLoki]

No problem with upgrading because you want to. Just wanted to make sure we don't all send you down a path assuming it ends up where you want to go.....

Enjoy the new electronics.

Michael

[bms]

I appreciate everyone's input.

No, no credit card usage here. The cash can always be used for something more practical, though. That's why I'd like to sell what I'm not using, like these r50's and r15's sitting in my computer room waiting to be boxed up, and eventually the 603.

Where can I hear the H/K's? I live an hour from any CC's, BB's or Tweeter's. Finding the time to go and listen is the best way to decide, and it may also slow me down a bit!

[Kex]

... Where can I hear the H/K's? I live an hour from any CC's, BB's or Tweeter's. Finding the time to go and listen is the best way to decide, and it may also slow me down a bit!

Best Buy do carry some h/k models here in SoCal, but they don't really push them, at least not at my local BB/Magnolia: they're never in the listening room and pricing is usually MSRP or just $50 less when they're "on sale" (so a lot more than amazon.com).

[bms]

Well, I went to a brand new Best Buy in my area and I saw both the H/K 354 and 254, and heard them in a cheesy wall unit, 2.0 set up, so I didn't learn much.

Amazon has the 354 for $699.00 incl. shipping, and the 254 for $390.00 incl. shipping. BB is at $799.00 and $599.00.

So, I need to decide whether or not I'll be adding amps at some point.

[Sherardp]

are you against Pioneer Elites? The 94 is in your budget range for sure.

[bms]

are you against Pioneer Elites? The 94 is in your budget range for sure.

No, just don't know much about them. But if they're in the same league (or higher) than the H/K 354-254, then I'll begin reading about them.