Need help with new Maggies MMG's

[Ern Dog]

So yesterday I traded my retired Rti10's for some Magnepan MMG's. My first impression is that I've never heard stings sound so realistic. They blow the snot out of my Dynaudios for violin, cello, etc. Very impressive realism for this type of music. They aren't as strong for rock music for my ears. They seem to be missing the punch and umph that my Dynos give me. They definetly need the help of a sub. I know that a factor is that the bass is soo tight that I'm not used to hearing such clean bass. So I'll be adjusting to this new sound for awhile.

Here is a problem I need some advice about: at around 40hz, one of the maggies seems to bottom out and distorts. It sounds like a rattle or like something is vibrating. It is very noticeable. The other speaker is fine. I've narrowed down the location of the vibration to be coming from the top back part of the speaker. Any ideas how to correct this?

[Face]

Raise the x-over frequency on your SMS.

I'm not familiar with your amps though, maybe they're not up to task.

[dorokusai]

Does the noise go away when you lower the volume? The MMG is not a rock loudspeaker.

[Ricardo]

Are they new? You should be able to send them back....

I am also enjoying a pair of MMG's, with a sub; loving it.

[Ern Dog]

The rattle was still there at lower volumes, just not as loud. I did connect the SMS between my preamp and the amp, which has an automatic crossover at 80 hz and this solved the problem- no more rattle. I was hoping to avoid sending my mains through the SMS to avoid added processing/distortion, so I see this as a temporary solution until I can figure something else out.

My monoblocks are 50 wpc and the maggies are not new, I'm the 3rd owner.

Here is another question... Due to a tight listenting location, they are 6 feet 6 inches apart from the center of each speaker. Should tweeters be on the inside or outside?

[RuSsMaN]

Tweeters on the outside.

I've never heard a Magnepan rattle, even at higher (unclipped) levels. You might have a bum ribbon.

Cheers,
Russ

[ben62670]

I just had my planner cherry popped, and I am finally interested in getting out of the SDA box I have been in for 2 years! How does the MMG compare to the Amazings? I will soon get my ears on some Carver's properly setup, and would like your thoughts. Sorry about the derail, but I see some experts in the planer field here.
Ben

[Ern Dog]

Tweeters on the outside.

I've never heard a Magnepan rattle, even at higher (unclipped) levels. You might have a bum ribbon.

Cheers,
Russ

I think your right about the blum ribbon. A quick search on the net and found that someone with the same problem, removed the grill cloth and found a loose staple and by re-securing it, solved the rattle/vibration problem. I've always been hesitant to take my speakers/gear apart, but might try.

I'm also finding that these maggies are so fussy and sensitive to everything. The Dynos have more male characteristics of sounding great no matter what you thrown at them and have a wide sweet spot. The maggies are hard to integrate with my sub and I'm thinking that I may need to upgrade my sub just to keep up with the speed, tight and clean bass that the maggies produce.:D Don't you love that, when you upgrade something, then it immidiately triggers needing to upgrade something else as well.

[Face]

I just had my planner cherry popped, and I am finally interested in getting out of the SDA box I have been in for 2 years! How does the MMG compare to the Amazings? I will soon get my ears on some Carver's properly setup, and would like your thoughts. Sorry about the derail, but I see some experts in the planer field here.
Ben

I haven't heard Amazings yet, but I can tell you MMG's are very thin on bass. It's what they do everywhere else that makes them special.

[Ern Dog]

I just had my planner cherry popped, and I am finally interested in getting out of the SDA box I have been in for 2 years! How does the MMG compare to the Amazings? I will soon get my ears on some Carver's properly setup, and would like your thoughts. Sorry about the derail, but I see some experts in the planer field here.
Ben

We both got our cheery popped at the same time.:p

[skipf]

You definantly won't need a sub if you go with the ALS Platinums. No "boomy" bass either, just sweet clean punch you can feel as much as hear. The ribbons are exceptional too. Better have some hog amps though.

[dorokusai]

I've heard them rattle when pushed too hard but the loose or blown ribbon sounds like the best comment so far. They were probably blown when you traded them.

[Eric W]

Did you try swapping sides of the amp (or amps themselves if you have monoblocks)? As strange as it sounds, I once had an amp that would distort in only one channel. I thought for the longest time it was the speaker (also Magnepan), until I tried a different amp and the popping went away.

Oh yeah, and did you remove the sock from the speaker and have a look? Sometimes the Maggies voice coil wire starts to "peel up" from the diaphragm, or the diaphragm is ruptured. If it's the voice coil wire it's pretty easy to correct, call Magnepan and they'll give you some adhesive part numbers you can order from Grainger. If it's the diaphragm rutured, you can use some adhesive tape to do a patch.

[disneyjoe7]

I always like swapping from what you know works to what you question.

Puts you in the right direction in no time. ;)

[jon s]

I am thinking your Maggies are not new... Maggies glue an aluminum "voice coil" (actually a long vertical group of wires) to a mylar film. The energized voice coil causes the ribbons to vibrate within the magnetic field. As they age, the glue they use eventually fails and the aluminum wire separates from the mylar film. The wires also corrodes and turn green with age. This results in the wire vibrating against the mylar causing the rattling and buzzing. You will need to remove the fabric covering to verify.

If you search MUG (Magnepan User group), you will find how to repair the detached wires. You will need to clean the old glue off and the wires as well. There are glues that will reattach the wires.

This problem is especially prevalent in high humidity areas, such as the southeast and in Hawaii. The ribbons often fail after a few years.

[concealer404]

my monoblocks are 50 wpc and the maggies are not new, i'm the 3rd owner.

;) :)

[StephenEC]

Hello Ern Dog ,

The rattle might be " De lamination " of the wires . What this means is that the wires over time delaminate from the the mylar surface to which the are affixed .

Here is a link to a Group of Guys that know way more about Maggies than I .
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/etv.pl?forum=MUG

The " De lamination " issue is well documented at the above link . Do a
search for " Delamination " . . . You will have more than Enough Information to Read . . . ben there done that . lol

You also find out on that forum above, that MMG's can be modded to point that makes them really Sing . . . it just depends on how far You want to go .

I have modified a old pair of MGII s built in the 70's . I did the X-Over
upgrade , and built new solid wood frames , and they blow away my friends . . . an me .

Welcome to Maggie Sound . . . oh by the way , Mine do Bass ;-)

Good Luck , Stephen

[Ern Dog]

Thanks for all the help guys. Looks like I'm gonna have to start with taking the clothe sock off to get a good look. I'll have to save this for the weekend- should be fun to see what the Maggies look like naked. I'll post back here to let you know what I find.

[dorokusai]

You gotta bust them open but the mod process, sorry, not interested and a waste of time. I've owned a bunch of Magnepan and the MMG's will just lure you into larger models. It's awesome that some folks have modded the hell out of them but it just doesn't fascinate me anymore.

I thought they fixed the delamination problem with the MMG from the earlier SMG? From the information....not but again, they were probably screwed when you received them.

Stephen posted some great links so have at it. I like MUG over AA but the information contained at both sites is a neccesary Favorite.

[StephenEC]

I've owned a bunch
of Magnepan and the MMG's will just lure you into
larger models. It's awesome that some folks have
modded the hell out of them but it just doesn't
fascinate me anymore.

Doro ,

The MMG's can be modded so that the " Thirst is
Quenched " so to speak . The X-over and re framing
Simply Bring them out of their Mediocre Shells .

There are Forum Members of MUG that have done
the mods mentioned above , and as a " Group " they
seem Satisfied Finally :D

I have had my hearing tested , and at 52 years old ,
working in environments that were and are noisy , I
don't have much hearing above 15 khz .

My modified MGII's ( have the wire tweeter , instead
of the quasi ribbon tweeter ) Simply Please Me . I have
had a couple of friends over to audition them , before
and after the mod process .

What's funny to me is , They ( my friends ) keep
calling me , to arrange time to come over and just
listen to music . . . They are astounded at the
Musicality of the speakers .

The solid wood frames IMO have brought the
speakers to Life . The bass Improved considerably ,
and the mid range is Gorgeous as Ever . The high
end is more pronounced , natural if You will .

Natural Sounding . . . Balanced . . . Captivating . . .
Engaging to the point , that my routine has changed .
My kids and I listen to music every day after work /
school , We look forward to it .

I purchased a pair of MGI s of the ebay for cheap .
I plan to redo them this coming winter , and I'm
going to try my hand at finding a source for
aluminum foil to make my own quasi -ribbons .

Sorry , Doro , I just realized that I was ramblin ' on . . . :)

As far as the delamination problem , it seems
that high humidity and direct sunlight still has an
adverse effect on the glue that is used,
however with procautions , one should expect
a long life outta these speakers . . . heck mine were built
in the early 70's lol

Cheers , Stephen

[dorokusai]

Stephen - Excellent post and I've been into Magnepan, like you, for quite a while. I just don't get into all that and preferred to move up the chain instead. I have visited MUG on more than one occasion over the years, so I've read a couple things now and then :D

It's a great starter speaker with wonderful potential. How's that ;)

I have a pair of Tympani 1D under my pool table now that I just spent some time with for a few months. Again, awesome but the horrified look on my wifes' face every time she looked at them was enough to limit their residency. The Mye Stands for my old 3.5 are still in the closet....just waiting for me to pull the trigger on another pair of them or 3.6. I'm a fan too :)

Regards,
Mark

[StephenEC]

Mark ,

I'm not sure where You are located at , but , maybe
there's a Forum Member close to You that has modified
a pair of MMGs close to You . . . just a thought .

There are those in the forum who have had 1.6s and
have the fully modded MMGs , I remember reading that
" They " preferred the Modified MMG's to the 1.6s .

I can understand about the WAF , and specially
concerning the pair of Tympani 1D s . . . that's a
lot of space to take up for speakers .

My reframed MGII's went from 22 inches wide
to 16 1/2 inches wide . . . I keep them tucked away
when not listening to them .

When listening to them , they are out away from
the wall about 3 1/2 feet ( the back side ) and
about 3 feet on the sides .

It's nice to meet other people on other forums
that Enjoy the Maggies . Though , the Maggie
Journey , seems to be one that resembles a
ride on a Roller Coaster .

If One isn't fighting with the Speakers
themselves , it could be Up Stream
Equipment , or Placement . . .

For Me , I just Love what I have going
on right now . . . I'm looking forward tho . . .
on trying to make my own design of
quasi-ribbon tweeter .

[dorokusai]

Why do I feel like I'm reading a poem, borderline haiku, everytime you post? :) You're wordy.

I'd love to hear a pair of modded MMG's. I know the tonal signature of that loudspeaker and if it's better, awesome. I'm still not going to buy a pair and modify them.

[ben62670]

I am so interested in Planers now. I just heard a video with a Porsche screaming from the right to the left, an I was so impressed with the imaging! I will agree with the statements I have found here, and on the internet elsewhere about the mid bass punch. I don't want to mess with the sound of the planers much, but I may look for some punch from a woofer properly implemented into the system. My previous experience with planers was just the Emit-K's, but they need to be crossed real high. I have been reading post by Doro, and Russman on planers for a while. I think it is time to change gears. I may sell my beloved Adcom GFA-585 to fund this adventure:)
Ben

[StephenEC]

Mark ,

Me . . . Wordy ? lol

Cheers , Stephen

ps . my shortest post lolol

[dorokusai]

Mark ,

Me . . . Wordy ? lol

Cheers , Stephen

ps . my shortest post lolol

You should post more often.

[StephenEC]

You should post more often.

LOL ... I'll try :D

[Ern Dog]

Taking the sock off took forever because of all the staples. Once it was off, I found a spot on the top were the tip of the wire slightly lifted off the mylar leaving a very small gap 1/32". This was also the point I heard the vibration coming from. So it looks like an easy fix of adding some glue to reattach the wire. I'm not going to send it to Magnepan and I also want to avoid ordering the $50 repair kit. I'll call them on Monday to see if they can recommend something I can pick up at the hardware store. I was thinking some Elmer's glue or silicone calk adhesive would probably work, but I'll wait.

[StephenEC]

Ern Dog ,

Sorry about what You found when You removed the socks .
However , it's not something to fear , many others have
traveled down this road , and the repair method is well
documented in the link below .

http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/M...nn/repair.html

So . . . Plod forward . . . into the inner sanctum of Maggie Repair .

Good Luck , You Can Do It . . . . Stephen

[TroyD]

I agree with Mark to the extent that rather than mod an MMG, it seems to make more sense to just move up the food chain especially since the jump isn't ALL that pricey...that's just me though.

BDT