Free Shipping on All Orders 1-866-764-1801

Vist our Online Store
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    'Bubba' land
    Posts
    4,798

    Default Pioneer, Yamaha avr's, multiple questions

    I'm looking for a thicker, fuller sound. The Denon I've got sounds good, but 'sterile' is the only word that comes to mind. The Yamaha's I've listened to sound fuller and....warmer? Anyway, I know a lot has to do with the speakers, which I'm also researching, but I'm trying to quench all my thirsts, so:

    The Pioneer VSX-1018TXH-K vs. VSX-1018AH-K? The 1st is the designation for what appears to be the same avr at BB, while the 2nd is the designation at the Pioneer website. Is one last years model, vs this years?

    Also, the ELITE VSX-92TXH vs. the 1018TXH- they both have the same wattage(130wpc) Is the Elite's amp betterer?

    Finally, what Yamaha would be a good substitute for the 1018TXH/92TXH

    Sorry for making this so confused, but I AM!!!
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!

  2. #2

    Member Sales Rating: (14)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    13,436

    Default

    Buy the Pioneer ELite and forget the rest. Yamaha is not warmer then Denon, Denon is warmer then Yamaha. Yamaha today sucks. I hate there receivers now. Years ago they rocked. Denon also years ago where really nice, now they have mad problems and don't sound as good as they once did. I'm not a Denon fan anymore.

    Pioneer and Pioneer ELite have different internal parts DAc's etc. Get The Elite.

    If you can get a 01 or 03 , they are the way to go. The 92 is really nice. I'm in.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  3. #3

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    91

    Default

    1018 and 01 seem to have the same DAC and DSP. Anybody know what are the differences exactly?

  4. #4

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Back from Japan in Clover, SC
    Posts
    7,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    Buy the Pioneer ELite and forget the rest. Yamaha is not warmer then Denon, Denon is warmer then Yamaha. Yamaha today sucks. I hate there receivers now. Years ago they rocked. Denon also years ago where really nice, now they have mad problems and don't sound as good as they once did. I'm not a Denon fan anymore.

    Pioneer and Pioneer ELite have different internal parts DAc's etc. Get The Elite.

    If you can get a 01 or 03 , they are the way to go. The 92 is really nice. I'm in.

    Dan
    Agreed, love the Elite. I have an SC07, best thing since Peanut butter.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!! !

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...p?userid=73580

  5. #5

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    'Bubba' land
    Posts
    4,798

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback folks. I'll start shopping RIGHT now!:D
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!

  6. #6

    Member Sales Rating: (3)

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Richmond, TX
    Posts
    238

    Default

    I love my Pioneer Elite.... I have the VSX 92
    HT:
    Projector - JVC HD100, 100" Fixed Screen, A/V Receiver - Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH, Power Conditioner - Panamax M5300-EX, BluRay - Sony PS3 Looking for a gently used Oppo BD95, Speakers - RTiA9's, CSiA6, FXi A4, Sub - 12" M&K VX-1250

    Living Room:
    TV - Kuro Elite PRO-111FD, Fronts.Rti10's (not connected yet), Media source, Logitech Revue

    *Need to fix a used ADCOM GFA-555. Do you know where to have it services in Texas (Houston Area)?

  7. #7

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,218

    Default

    I love my Pioneer Elite 92 as well, all though it's my first AVR so unfortunately i have nothing to compare it with.

    When i was shopping for receivers last year, i just simply went to a store that had the models i was interested in, and did a bit of listening and playing around. For me it ended up being between Denon and Pioneer Elite, i have no regrets in my choice to go with the Pio Elite 92..:D

  8. #8

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    49

    Default Yammie AVR

    I have a Yamaha AVR which is a capable receiver for HT. For 2-channel music it's too bright and very painfull. I ended up buying a seperate stereo amplifier. The phono output was **** too!

  9. #9

    Member Sales Rating: (45)

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    NC Foothills
    Posts
    4,567

    Default

    I vote for the Pioneer Elite as well.
    Romans 1:16

  10. #10

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    971

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Fleming View Post
    I have a Yamaha AVR which is a capable receiver for HT. For 2-channel music it's too bright and very painfull. I ended up buying a seperate stereo amplifier. The phono output was **** too!
    Couldn't agree more. The Yamaha 663 i have, granted one of their lower end models, is great for h/t, but totally sucks for 2 channel. I just ordered an Amp to remedy this.
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.

  11. #11

    Member Sales Rating: (14)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    13,436

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Fleming View Post
    I have a Yamaha AVR which is a capable receiver for HT. For 2-channel music it's too bright and very painfull. I ended up buying a seperate stereo amplifier. The phono output was **** too!
    You this sucks because Yamaha used to be great. You could use it for HT and music with no problems. I actually liked there sound quality. Beefy amps and everything. I don't know why they decided to crap out.:(
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  12. #12

    Member Sales Rating: (2)

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    304

    Default

    Hey guys---mantis, p fleming, and retro in particular---can you say a bit more precisely what you dislike about Yamaha?

    I ask because I have a yam 663 and, while I won't argue with anyone who says the amp sucks, it seems OK as a pre/pro with separate amp. It may not be great, but "sucks" imo would surely be an overstatement.

    Is the amp in particular what you dislike? I'm not in the least offended by people bashing my avr. But I would like to know if my setup could be drastically improved by swapping out one box.

  13. #13

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Descending toward the moon in the CLEM (Chinese Lunar Excursion Module), looking for Chang'e
    Posts
    11,464

    Default

    The Yamaha 663 is an adequate amp in its price range. And it's not that bad in stereo.

    It's just that the Pioneer Elite is in a different league. Better internal DACs, transformers, capacitors, higher current capacity and on and on. Don't know if any shots are available but if you could see inside it would be clearer.

    Then again that Elite doesn't sell for 500 or less. I'm not a fan of Yamaha but I will admit that in its price range that's a decent receiver.

    Personally, I favor the higher end Onkyos for warmth. Even warmer than a Denon. And I agree--rarely have I heard Yamahas referred to as 'warm' sounding receivers. They themselves pride themselves on 'Natural Sound' which usually means a bit too bright for my ears.

    Also there is a big difference between a 1018 and an Elite 92!
    cnh

  14. #14

    Member Sales Rating: (3)

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    363

    Default

    I have had all thee yamaha, onkyo, and two pioneer elites. The pioneer is the best in sound quality the onkyo is best in features and the yamaha needs to catch up if it wants to stay in the game. I have heard that the recent yamaha are better than the past releases. But I had nothing but bad luck with the yamaha I had and best of experience with onkyo and pioneer.

  15. #15

    Member Sales Rating: (16)

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    3,905

    Default

    If you search on ANY avr, you can find everything from glowing reviews to horror stories -like Oink-yos catching on fire, bad lip-sync delays, Yamahas with DTS-MA 'bombs', Pioneers 'freezing up', etc et al, yada yada ya...

    There is no perfect avr - every one has 'issues'.

    Go read, go listen, then decide for yourself.

    I'm happy with my Yammy - go figure....

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.

  16. #16

    Member Sales Rating: (12)

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com
    Posts
    12,391

    Default

    i am getting the yamaha rx-z7 when my ship comes in... that or there are some smokin hot deals on Sunfire theater Grand III on a-gon

  17. #17

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    971

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilbert View Post
    Hey guys---mantis, p fleming, and retro in particular---can you say a bit more precisely what you dislike about Yamaha?

    I ask because I have a yam 663 and, while I won't argue with anyone who says the amp sucks, it seems OK as a pre/pro with separate amp. It may not be great, but "sucks" imo would surely be an overstatement.

    Is the amp in particular what you dislike? I'm not in the least offended by people bashing my avr. But I would like to know if my setup could be drastically improved by swapping out one box.
    Okay, "Sucks" might have been the wrong choice of words. I do like the 663 alot as a pre/pro and for the money, i think it has few peers. Just found it lacking in stand alone 2 channel for music. Dont get me wrong, i have no intention of getting rid of it, i think when i add the external Amp it's one deficency IMO, will be solved.


    Pat
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.

  18. #18

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, Florida
    Posts
    754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by obieone View Post
    I'm looking for a thicker, fuller sound. The Denon I've got sounds good, but 'sterile' is the only word that comes to mind.

    The Pioneer VSX-1018TXH-K vs. VSX-1018AH-K? The 1st is the designation for what appears to be the same avr at BB, while the 2nd is the designation at the Pioneer website. Is one last years model, vs this years?

    Also, the ELITE VSX-92TXH vs. the 1018TXH- they both have the same wattage(130wpc) Is the Elite's amp better.

    Finally, what Yamaha would be a good substitute for the 1018TXH/92TXH
    I'll throw my 2 cents in since I have some experience with the 1018 and 92.
    First, the model number difference does not indicate a year change. When researching the 1018 over at AVS there were some posts regarding a last minute designation change by Pioneer around release time. You can check there further if you like but I was satisfied they are the same receiver.

    I agree with the posters regarding Yamaha's "fall from grace". I read a review in Sound & Vision of the RX-V863 that showed the 105 X 7 receiver actually tested out at 45 watts into only 5 channels and 41 into 6. Whatever changes Yamaha made in their new receiver line is just not producing their claimed power. I realize current is far more important that watts-per-channel but a 105 to 45 drop also indicates low current.

    As for the 1018 versus the 92, I tested both with my 1C's and found the 1018 to be a little "thin". Great features as a preamp however and a fair value given the $450-$500 price. The 92 was far, far better. One more story. A friend of mine a few states away called me in October. He was building a 5.1 HT with all Thiel speakers (a difficult low efficiency speaker). He borrowed a mid-line Denon from a local shop and was testing it out. His complaint was that the system didn't seemed to have the power and impact on movies he expected. He loved the music, hated the movies. Since his dealer also carried Pioneer I suggested the 92. Long story short, he loved the 92 & bought it.

    Everyone's situation is different (room, speakers, personal tastes, music versus movies, etc.). Some find the Elite line to be a great receiver given it's affordability, some don't and swear by Onkyo, Denon, and Yamaha. I'm still using separates but when the time comes to look at receivers again, I will look at Elite or HK first (affordability), and NAD or Outlaw if the money's there. Just my opinion.
    Sony 60'' SXRD 1080p
    Amp = Carver AV-705THX 5-Channel
    Processor = NAD T747
    Panasonic BD35 Blu-Ray
    Main = SDA-1C Studio with RD0s, spikes, XO rebuild, rings, I/C upgrade
    Center=Polk CS10, Surround = Athena Dipoles, Sub= Boston 12HO
    Music/Video Streaming = Netgear NEO550
    TT = Audio Technica

  19. #19

    Member Sales Rating: (2)

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retro152 View Post
    Okay, "Sucks" might have been the wrong choice of words. I do like the 663 alot as a pre/pro and for the money, i think it has few peers. Just found it lacking in stand alone 2 channel for music. Dont get me wrong, i have no intention of getting rid of it, i think when i add the external Amp it's one deficency IMO, will be solved.


    Pat
    I added an amp, an xpa-5, and it was night and day difference. I had the 663 powering some new series Monitors. Easy speakers to drive but the 663 really struggled. If the 863 puts out 45 watts into 5 channels, the 663 is maybe doing what, 40? Anyway now, with the amp, my setup sounds terrific to my inexpert ears, which is why I find the Yamaha bashing a bit puzzling.

    This is really just a long-winded way of saying get an amp by all means. You'll be amazed by how much better the 663 will sound.

  20. #20

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    971

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilbert View Post
    I added an amp, an xpa-5, and it was night and day difference. I had the 663 powering some new series Monitors. Easy speakers to drive but the 663 really struggled. If the 863 puts out 45 watts into 5 channels, the 663 is maybe doing what, 40? Anyway now, with the amp, my setup sounds terrific to my inexpert ears, which is why I find the Yamaha bashing a bit puzzling.

    This is really just a long-winded way of saying get an amp by all means. You'll be amazed by how much better the 663 will sound.
    Agree with you 100% I just got my Xpa-3, 3 days ago, and like you said its like "night and day". The 663 by itself did struggle to offer my A-7's and center adequate power, my virgin ears picked that up off the bat! The Xpa-3 has changed all that and my rears have never sounded better with the 663 giving them its undivided attention.



    Pat.
    Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-05
    Amp: Emotiva Xpa-3
    Front L/R: POLK Rti-a9s':D
    Center:POLK Csi-a6
    Rear surround's:POLK Rti-a1s'
    Sub: Klipsch Synergy sub-12
    Sony Kdl-46w4100 46" LCD
    PS3
    Audioquest type 4 wiring.

  21. #21

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, Florida
    Posts
    754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilbert View Post
    I added an amp, an xpa-5, and it was night and day difference. I had the 663 powering some new series Monitors. Easy speakers to drive but the 663 really struggled. If the 863 puts out 45 watts into 5 channels, the 663 is maybe doing what, 40? Anyway now, with the amp, my setup sounds terrific to my inexpert ears, which is why I find the Yamaha bashing a bit puzzling.
    Hopefully my post wasn't read as Yamaha bashing - certainly wasn't my intention. I just wanted to point out that some of the receivers moving to new amplifier technology are just not delivering the current needed (and desired) by some of the members. Doing what retro152 and Hilbert did is a great solution to the problem.

    The cost of pre-amps with HDMI and all the new audio decoding and up conversion can get pretty pricey, pretty quick. Plus they aren't on the used market in great numbers. For those on a budget, using a quality mid-line receiver with pre-outs as a pre-amp and pairing it with a good amp is a great solution; AND you have the added benefit of being able to upgrade either in the future.
    Sony 60'' SXRD 1080p
    Amp = Carver AV-705THX 5-Channel
    Processor = NAD T747
    Panasonic BD35 Blu-Ray
    Main = SDA-1C Studio with RD0s, spikes, XO rebuild, rings, I/C upgrade
    Center=Polk CS10, Surround = Athena Dipoles, Sub= Boston 12HO
    Music/Video Streaming = Netgear NEO550
    TT = Audio Technica

  22. #22

    Member Sales Rating: (11)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
    Posts
    15,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty913 View Post
    The cost of pre-amps with HDMI and all the new audio decoding and up conversion can get pretty pricey, pretty quick. Plus they aren't on the used market in great numbers. For those on a budget, using a quality mid-line receiver with pre-outs as a pre-amp and pairing it with a good amp is a great solution; AND you have the added benefit of being able to upgrade either in the future.
    I agree with this. adding external amps to nearly any receiver be it TOTL or BOTL as long as it has pre amp outs, that external amp is going to take your receiver to a whole new level. that's why receivers come with pre outs.. so you can add external amps.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert

  23. #23

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    476

    Default

    I will agree the cheaper yamaha lines are only decent(663 is great for the money), but there RX-v1900 and up series are actually pretty darn nice. The 3900 gets incredible reviews and is one of the most feature packed receivers out there. I owned the 3900 for a short time a few weeks ago and it did an incredible job. Now it did not have the best 2-channel performance, but neither does pioneer... IF you say differently then thats a bunch crap and just your own subjective opinion. Everyone has different experiences with gear. Sometimes the proper balance/synergy is needed to get a certain sound quality your looking for.
    Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 10-05-2006, 10:26 PM
  2. Yamaha RX-V4600 vs. Pioneer VSX-56TXi
    By team_canada in forum Electronics
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09-14-2005, 05:07 PM
  3. Multiple Amp Questions
    By PolkThug in forum Car Audio & Electronics
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-24-2005, 02:46 PM
  4. I got some 5Jr's, multiple stereo questions (newbie alert!)
    By boltaction in forum Vintage Speakers
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-06-2005, 11:00 PM
  5. Yamaha or Pioneer??
    By Ripping Rudy in forum Electronics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-01-2003, 01:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts