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  1. #1

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    Default Stereo don't sound good

    At first I thought it was my old reciever. I thought well its a crapy reciever so the stereo setting is just not that good.

    Well now the new reciever when I play it in stereo sounds the same, its like unless you put it on Dolby II you never hear that crisp clean sound. Now please someone tell me I'm wrong and that stereo is supposed to sound muffuled. I want to switch to stereo and hear crisp clean sound but only from the two front.

    Makes me wonder why amplify the fronts if stereo will just sound louder muffled.

    Anyone else with the same problem. Let me know if 7.1 reciever are not meant to play stereo. Thanks.
    Retired Onkyo 520 (returned broken HK 247)
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  2. #2

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    if both receivers sound muffled.. then there is something wrong with your speakers or some setting in your receiver is engaged.. but that's unlikely since the old receiver sounded the same to you as the new one, muffled.

    sounds like your tweeters are not working. on the back of your speaker is the metal jumper in place? if not then your tweeters won't work if you are using the lower speaker connectors on your speakers. = muffled sound.

    of course there could be other problems too.

  3. #3

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    I have a 5 year warranty with fry's on the RTi10's. Should I take them there and have them give it a test run? The center is nice and crisp...god I love the csi3
    Retired Onkyo 520 (returned broken HK 247)
    Now a Pioneer 1018
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    2- Fxi3's
    Onkyo 250W Sub
    Polk psw-10

    "Inch by inch lifes a cinch, yard by yard life is hard"

  4. #4

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    Its the RTi10s no good for 2 channel.
    jerry
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  5. #5

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    I have Polk T90e (euro version of monitor 60) paired with Harmon Kardon HK 247 and right now using this as a 2.0 setup. When I play in stereo mode the sound is not that clear but when I engage Dolby Pro Logic II, the sound is enhanced with more clarity and deeper bass.

    So now I leave this setting ON all the time. Plus I have also changed the graphic equalizer settings on winamp to my liking.
    Last edited by tdigi; 02-07-2009 at 09:12 AM.

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    Winamp? You must be using a computer as a source. Start there as I'm sure that's your problem.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by hydrostream View Post
    Its the RTi10s no good for 2 channel.
    jerry
    The RTi10s are fine for stereo music. I am betting the op is using some sort of DSP stereo or DSP mc stereo rather than a pure stereo signal from the source. Most AVRs have a stereo mode which will bypass all of the DSPs.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Winamp? You must be using a computer as a source. Start there as I'm sure that's your problem.
    Using the computer as the source is more convenient for me coz all my music collection is on it. The receiver is connected to the SPDIF (optical) out of the sound card which bypasses the DACs on the sound card, so all processing is done by the receiver.

    I will quote what is said in the last paragraph of the review here: http://www.cnet.com.au/hometheatre/a...9288043,00.htm --->

    "The HK AVR 247 also offers upsampling of music and when engaged it seemed to physically shift the sound upwards in the listening plane. It offers a fatter midrange overall and a tighter bass. Music listeners may want to leave this on all the time as the effect is very pleasant."

    Well having upsampling ON in stereo mode didn't make any difference but switching to Dolby PL II, music does sound better at least on the HK 247 receiver.
    Last edited by tdigi; 02-07-2009 at 09:58 AM.

  9. #9

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    Unless you have stored your music on your computer in a lossless format, your music when played back over a decent rig will only heighten the compression of the format (MP3 or whatever) and it will just sound bad unless the AVR processes it.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdigi View Post
    Using the computer as the source is more convenient for me coz all my music collection is on it. The receiver is connected to the SPDIF (optical) out of the sound card which bypasses the DACs on the sound card, so all processing is done by the receiver.

    I will quote what is said in the last paragraph of the review here: http://www.cnet.com.au/hometheatre/a...9288043,00.htm --->

    "The HK AVR 247 also offers upsampling of music and when engaged it seemed to physically shift the sound upwards in the listening plane. It offers a fatter midrange overall and a tighter bass. Music listeners may want to leave this on all the time as the effect is very pleasant."

    I have personally verified this and music does sound better in Dolby PL II mode than stereo mode at least on the HK 247 receiver.
    I use a computer (direct) for my office rig as a source and if the settings are wrong this will happen..........that's why I mentioned be sure to check the computer output settings. Also, I ditched WINAMP along time ago I use Media Monkey which is much more versatile and sounds better than WINAMP. Not sure you can send a pure digital signal (no DSP or other Windows processing) with WINAMP..............but I haven't used or configured it in quite awhile.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    Unless you have stored your music on your computer in a lossless format, your music when played back over a decent rig will only heighten the compression of the format (MP3 or whatever) and it will just sound bad unless the AVR processes it.
    I 100% agree with what you say...but playing the same "lossless" mp3 file in Dolby PL II sounds better on my receiver (when compared to stereo mode).

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdigi View Post
    "lossless" mp3 file
    No such thing as "lossless" mp3. That's called an oxymoron. Mp3's by their very nature are lossy--the end.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    No such thing as "lossless" mp3. That's called an oxymoron. Mp3's by their very nature are lossy--the end.
    What I meant is FLAC. Should not have typed mp3 after "lossless"...my bad :p

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    I use a computer (direct) for my office rig as a source and if the settings are wrong this will happen..........that's why I mentioned be sure to check the computer output settings. Also, I ditched WINAMP along time ago I use Media Monkey which is much more versatile and sounds better than WINAMP. Not sure you can send a pure digital signal (no DSP or other Windows processing) with WINAMP..............but I haven't used or configured it in quite awhile.
    I have all my music indexed in Media Monkey but the player is set to winamp. and just switched to the default MM player. Not much I can change in the computer output settings other than this.
    Last edited by tdigi; 02-07-2009 at 10:48 AM.

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    For poops & giggles, I decide to see what MY rig sounds like:
    Denon AVR-1905, Polk Audio T90's(monitor 60's) PSW303, Sony DVP-NC80V
    Source: Rushs' 'La Villa Strangiato'

    Everything(EXT. IN, prologicII C & M, Neo 6) EXCEPT stereo did sound crisper, but to me, that sounds too bright. Almost anemic

    In stereo, the bass became MUCH more noticable and present-I had to turn down the vol. on the 303-:D but it down sound slightly muffled.

    Until I get some FULL Range speakers, and a decent integrated......
    I like a thicker sound so, it stays in stereo
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!

  16. #16

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    For a couple of reasons, my 2 channel rig has been out of commission since before Thanksgiving. (Primarily my daughter moved back in and needed the space my rig occupied for an office) Since then I have not sat down to just listen to music till this morning. I recently picked up a copy of Black Uhuru's "Ultimate Collection" on the Hip-O label...



    Excellent Reggae and an excellent recording BTW.

    I am listening to it through my HT rig in pure stereo (no processing...using the CDP's DAC). I'm playing this CD with my Denon AVR-1802, using my Cambridge Audio D500SE CDP through RT55i speakers and Dayton Titanic 10" sealed sub. Sounds damn good!

    Like obieone I hit the buttons to use the DSPs on the AVR. I have the usual suspects...Dolby Prologic II, all channel stereo, etc, etc. Sounded like ASS. As far as I'm concerned they are a total waste of circuitry.

    Even when I have my 2-channel rig set up, this particular HT rig has always sounded nice in pure stereo mode. I think it is good symmetry of the gear. They just work very well together.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    . I think it is good symmetry of the gear. They just work very well together.
    This is often overlooked. My number one concern when replacing/swapping gear is how will it work with the rest of my gear........not necessarily how good that component sounds on it's own.

    It's like cooking.......the ingredients and how they integrate can turn a good dish into a fantastic dish.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  18. #18

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    Kind of a mixed bag of nuts with everyone. I think that the 7.1 recievers are just not good for stereo. I hooked up a pair of r15's to see if I got any clarity in stereo mode and although a little better the reciever would not blast them so its hard to say if stereo mode direct ot not is any good. I'm not mad I have enjoyed dolby digital and the rest of the dsp's for years now...maybe when I get the emotiva amp next year I will have a different opinion.
    Retired Onkyo 520 (returned broken HK 247)
    Now a Pioneer 1018
    CSi3
    2- RTI10's
    2- R50's
    2- Fxi3's
    Onkyo 250W Sub
    Polk psw-10

    "Inch by inch lifes a cinch, yard by yard life is hard"

  19. #19

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    I also used to enjoy "all channel stereo" on my previous Onkyo 6.1 HTIB. The latest generation of 7.1 receivers are of high quality and it's hard to say unless you do some A/B testing with different receivers and then come to some concrete conclusion as to which receiver has the best stereo mode.

    Right now I am also not so sure if I like the warm sound of Harmon. Some songs sound awesome and some muffled. The previous Onkyo seemed more crisp and detailed which I prefer - but the listening environment and setup was different too. I am going to get another Onkyo 7.1 receiver and do some testing myself and compare it to my current HK 247 for sound quality.

    May be you should get a 2 channel stereo receiver and audition it yourself. Can always return it.
    Last edited by tdigi; 02-07-2009 at 08:46 PM.

  20. #20

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    Hi

    I use an optical out from my computer sound card and listen to music and watch video all the time. You might want to check your soundcard mixing software. On mine there is a selection to switch from headphones, 2 speakers, 4 speakers, 5.1, & 7.1 etc....

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kchill View Post
    ...maybe when I get the emotiva amp next year I will have a different opinion.
    I am not sure how a separate emotiva amp will be beneficial unless you need more amp power to drive the speakers. Your front speakers are not hard to drive and don't have many woofers. Check out this thread too:
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=15579306

    But as I said earlier, it's best to test/compare and then come to a conclusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdigi View Post
    I also used to enjoy "all channel stereo" on my previous Onkyo 6.1 HTIB. The latest generation of 7.1 receivers are of high quality and it's hard to say unless you do some A/B testing with different receivers and then come to some concrete conclusion as to which receiver has the best stereo mode.

    Right now I am also not so sure if I like the warm sound of Harmon. Some songs sound awesome and some muffled. The previous Onkyo seemed more crisp and detailed which I prefer - but the listening environment and setup was different too. I am going to get another Onkyo 7.1 receiver and do some testing myself and compare it to my current HK 247 for sound quality.

    May be you should get a 2 channel stereo receiver and audition it yourself. Can always return it.

    Hi Again

    I have a yamaha rx-v861 and believe it or not ,it does some decent 2 chanel sound as it has a specific setting for it. I know it sounds pretty good to me through my RTIA5's. Its a couple year old model,so you can get one cheap. It really shines in multi-channel though. Here is a link to an extensive review.

    http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-av...-receiver.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by renowilliams View Post
    Hi Again

    I have a yamaha rx-v861 and believe it or not ,it does some decent 2 chanel sound as it has a specific setting for it. I know it sounds pretty good to me through my RTIA5's. Its a couple year old model,so you can get one cheap. It really shines in multi-channel though. Here is a link to an extensive review.

    http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-av...-receiver.html
    Hi Reno and thanks for the info. The review sure is positive particularly about the "enhanced stereo" DSP mode of Yamaha. I can get the Onkyo 7.1 used under $150 but it's a cheaper model to begin with. So will have to think if I can spend around $400 for Yamaha 861. Also I double checked the sound card software settings..and it's alright.
    Last edited by tdigi; 02-07-2009 at 09:49 PM.

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    Not sure if this helps, but I was playing around with soundcard settings with my headphones. Whenever I use the Virtual Surround Sound setting, my music gets louder and seemingly clearer as well as rendering the sound image in front of me rather than around me.

    On the other hand, I noticed some clipping of frequency so that when the music hits a real high or low note, the soundcard would cut it off. So, although somewhat veiled sounding, I keep my settings to default, non-oversampling, no effects stereo for music. It is more veiled, but you can hear the nuances of music alot better when the soundcard just does its job as a DAC rather than a gimmicky audio device.

    I use an HT Omega Striker through my Heed Canamp to my K701. The same effects are heard through to my Swan M200MKII.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renowilliams View Post
    Hi Again

    I have a yamaha rx-v861 and believe it or not ,it does some decent 2 chanel sound as it has a specific setting for it. I know it sounds pretty good to me through my RTIA5's. Its a couple year old model,so you can get one cheap. It really shines in multi-channel though. Here is a link to an extensive review.

    http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-av...-receiver.html
    I have to agree, Yamahas do sometimes have some decent stereo sound, relatively speaking (of course nothing will compare with separates--but we're just speaking about receivers here)

    Also Onkyos 876, 906 and last years 805, 875, 905 sound pretty good in two channel for a surround receiver.

    Some people like the higher level Marantz 7000 and 8000 series. But all of these receivers are not inexpensive.

    Of course almost everyone here buys a separate 2 or 3 channel 200W per channel amp and uses even their Onkyo 906 as a pre-amp?

    I find even cheaper Yamahas somewhat musical in stereo. Though I prefer and own Onkyos I had a mid-level Yammie at one point that I liked in stereo.

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 02-08-2009 at 12:10 AM.

  26. #26

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    make sure to check the speaker terminal jumpers; you may only be hooked up to the woofers.
    [

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    First, let's not use common sense. Stereo sounds awful. I would not recommend it to anyone. And, the fact that most audiophiles consider stereo the purest and most accurate form of musical reproduction should tip you off that they are all lying and just trying to make your system sound like crap.

    Second, there is definitely something wrong with stereo . . . not your system. After all, you've replaced your receiver and that should have corrected any and all variables.

    Seriously though,

    Back in the day I had a Yamaha HTR5890 (7.1 Receiver) w/ RTi8s, RTi6s, RTi4s, CSi5 and SVSPB10. I did the whole surround sound thing. What got me into 2 channel WAS how clear accurate and perfect my RTi8s sounded in Stereo. Something is wrong with your system, not Stereo.
    Last edited by SolidSqual; 02-08-2009 at 09:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hydrostream View Post
    Its the RTi10s no good for 2 channel.
    jerry
    You are wrong. They wouldn't sound muffled.

    His source is flawed and band-aided over with cheap digital processing.
    Last edited by SolidSqual; 02-08-2009 at 09:41 AM.

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    band-aided over with cheap digital processing.
    That's certainly a possibility. I also have to wonder if the OP has ever heard a decent stereo to know what one actually sounds like.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSqual View Post
    Seriously though,

    Back in the day I had a Yamaha HTR5890 (7.1 Receiver) w/ RTi8s, RTi6s, RTi4s, CSi5 and SVSPB10. I did the whole surround sound thing. What got me into 2 channel WAS how clear accurate and perfect my RTi8s sounded in Stereo. Something is wrong with your system, not Stereo.

    That HTR5890 was a good performer - I had a HTR 5790 myself. It played competently in stereo, as well as multi-channel. Worked well as a pre-amp too.
    [

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