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  1. #1

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    Wink 944 Install suggestions & comments

    Everytime I take the wife out in my old Porsche and turn on the radio she puts her fingers in her ears. I got the hint and am doing my first audio install. Here's what I've bought:

    Eclipse CD7100 - HU Used Ebay $275
    DB6501's - front - new ebay $215 total for both DB sets
    DB691's - back seat

    JL6W3v3-4 subs (2) - bass for the way back. used ebay $157
    Earthquake Thrust 4.0 - 4 chanel for db's
    Boss American BA US500 - for da subs.

    Amps were a donation from my son who's also supplying the wiring he used them on, so I'm probably ok (my son is an electrical engineer). I'm going to build door plates to mount the fronts & cover up the original openings (4 x 6 metrics). Will probably have to do the same for the 6 x 9's. I plan to build some small stealth enclosures (based on JL sizing) that tuck the subs in the hatch area aft of the rear wheel well area. Front amp will go under the glove box, the larger amp is going somewhere in the hatch.

    I know I've got to be careful with the sub amp gain settings to not to over drive. I'm more of an SQ v.s. SPL guy so I don't thing this will be an issue. The car is 21 years old and has a fair share of road noise and rattles. My son's more of an SPL guy and his advice is to "turn up the volume".

    Thanks in advance to all the great posters here. I've learned a good bit that has helped with my selection so far. Anyone with 944 exp, please jump in here. I'm open to any suggestions / comments that can help.

    I just did a clutch job on the car and will gladly trade mechanical advice for audio advice.

    Thanks
    -specsalot
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  2. #2

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    biamp the components

  3. #3

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    So you mean 1 amp per set? or one amp per components (tweets / mids)? I'm a newbie and not sure what biamping is. I know there are threads here on this but how about explaining biamping in one paragraph or less. I assume it's about control and SQ. Is this part of the same concept as 3 way speaker arrangements?

    Thanks,
    specs

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    My best advice for the 944, get rid of the radio. The car sounds better without it!
    Chris

    Preamp: Anthem Pre 2L (Amperex Bugle Boy Tubes)
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  5. #5

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    bi-amping refers to powering the woofer and tweeter seperately using 4 channels on one 2-way speaker set

    Quote Originally Posted by dagame27 View Post
    My best advice for the 944, get rid of the radio. The car sounds better without it!
    thats the whole idea. i think he already got rid of it. better yet, keep it, just in case..;)

  6. #6

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    I agree with ditching the radio. And the passenger seat. And the carpet. Throw in a 3-point harness and roll cage, and go autocrossing hardcore!

    However, if you insist on a more civil ride...

    Biamping is when you use a 4-channel amplifier to amp EACH driver of a component set individually. Typically you just two channels for a component set, one channel per mid/tweeter pair. Front left channel to the front left crossover (which divides signal to mid and woofer) and then front right channel to front right crossover. Biamping is when you'd send the front left channel to the left tweeter, rear left channel to the left mid, front right channel to the right tweeter, and rear right channel to the right mid. This way you're not locked into using the preset frequency filters on the crossover. You can set the highpass and lowpass frequencies wherever you want them and set the slope at which it's cut off. It just allows for a lot more flexibility in tuning, more headroom for each driver, and more isolation between the channels. Thus, better SQ.
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  7. #7

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    Thanks to all for the advice. I think I'm starting to get it ;)

  8. #8

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    Talking

    As regards nixing the radio - you guys are on the money. When it's time to heat the tires the first move is to turn the radio off. :D

    I had a Boxster for years. A real fresh air machine, easy to drive fast. The 951 is a decade step back in ergonomics. It takes more effort, but my stock 2.5L feels a lot quicker the Boxster. The 951's are great cars if you can turn a wrench (or have a good friend who's a Porsche mechanic). The high cost of paid maintenance keeps the used market undervalued for what is IMHO a very nice car. This ain't a car forum, so I'll force myself to stay on topic here, except to say there is a reason why these 944's make great track cars.:D

    I'm sure I'll be back with more questions once I get my system installed. For sure I'll be doing a side by side comparison of biamping v.s. four speaker (rear fill) + sub configuration. I'll get some pic's posted when the work is done

    Thanks,
    specs

  9. #9

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    You're spot on about the 951, I own one myself and have for 8 years now. They are expensive to maintain, but when you can pick up a nice one for 8k its not so bad. I haven't used the radio in years. Pull the cat, pop in a test pipe and all you hear is sweet music :D Out of curiosity, is there anyone else on the forum here who has a 944 or 951?

    P.S. Check out www.rennlist.com for radio questions. It's the largest online Porsche community that I can think of and they should have more answers for you than I do.
    Chris

    Preamp: Anthem Pre 2L (Amperex Bugle Boy Tubes)
    Processor: Hk avr 235
    Amp: Adcom 555 MKII
    SACD/CD: Sony DVP-9000ES
    DVD/HD-DVD: Onkyo Hd-805
    Bluray: Sony Playstation 3
    Mains: Polk SDA SRS 2's
    MIT Terminator 2 and BW Silver Cables
    Phono Pre: NAD PP-2
    Turntable: Pro-ject 2 Xperience
    XBOX 360 w/ HD-DVD Drive

  10. #10

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    Thanks - rennlist rocks! - It will be interesting to see if there are other 944 owners. Not a lot of room unless one is willing to re-purpose the tiny excuse of a back seat Porsche is famous for fitting into some of their cars. IF you got one with custom audio installed :D - PLEASE post some pic's of your install - Share your ideas's on speakers / amps / placement / etc... I don't want to get stuck reinventing another square wheel :(

    Thanks,
    specs

  11. #11

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    Porsche 944
    Eclipse CD7100 HU
    Polk db6501 components up front
    (2) JL 6w3v3 (4 ohm) in way back
    JL 500/5 amp in way back

    :D Hello Again. Here's an update to my project and more questions. I've built an 18 x 9 x ~ 6 sealed box (per JL Audio dimensions) for the subs. I've finalized where things are going and have started running some wiring. Amazingly there is a firewall plug just aft of the battery box that is perfect for the power wire. I've run the power lead down the right side of the car. The sub box will go under the hatch left of the spare tire bulge. I gave up figuring how I could get a clean install of two amps in the limited space, so I bought a refurbished JL 500/5 hybrid for a one amp solution. I'm going to install the component speakers in the front doors. My plan is to run the amp in triamp mode so there will be no rear speakers unless I don't like the sound. I'll be running the tweets on the rear channel (25W) and the mid's on the front channel (100W). The subs will be wired in parallel and bridged acrossed channels 5/6 using summed mono output of HU 5/6 (sub output). Now for some questions:

    1. Running power on right side. What do you recommend with respect where to run component outputs and head unit pre-out signals? Can they be run adjacent to each other? I was thinking of running pre-outs on left side and running speakers outs on left and right side of center tunnel hump? Any do's or don't here that can get me? This is my first install.

    2. Amp has 12 or 24 db / octave slope HP and LP filtering on all channel pairs. It can support BP filtering on front channel. The head unit also has built in adjustable crossover filters. They aren't as granual with respect to frequency selection, but they provide more options with respect to slope (ie 6, 12, 18, or 24 db / octave). My plan is to start out using the amp's crossovers and migrate to head unit only after I've got some sense of what I need and only if amp can't get it done. The amp will have easy control access and will be much easier than all the menu diving associated with HU crossover tuning. Any thoughts here?

    3. The subs and amp will be under the hatchback glass exposed to the sun. What kind of precautions would you recommend to protect this equipment? Tinting glass v.s. making an opaque shade?

    Thanks in advance for any comments / advice
    specs :D
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    Last edited by specsalot; 03-21-2009 at 11:08 PM.

  12. #12

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    Bi amp the front components. I assume your eclipse HU has time alignment. You will relly enjoy bi amping if you have time alignment.

    Some general comments based on my limited experience:

    1. Run the power wires and speaker wires to the amp along opposite sides of the car.

    2. Cut off slope for sub at max db/oct. [I]f you can do 36db/oct from your hu do it from there else use 24db/oct from your amp.

    3. If you want SQ, try the subs xovered at 63hz. If you find the sound too thin you can try xover at 80hz. IMHO 63 is better.

    4. LPF of sub and HPF of mids should be the same. Sub / Mids slope at max db/oct.

    3. If possible install the tweets halfway up the front pillars, left tweeter pointing to right
    seat and vice versa.

    4. Place the subs facing the boot lid as near the bootlid as possible.

    5. Dynamat the doors to death and also the boot lid. Dynamat the door panels as well.

    6. Find out which frequencies you can tune from your HU eq. Some frequencies play louder on the left and some on the right. Get a tuning cd and an spl meter. Play the cd and listen and measure on the left side and then on the right. The idea is to get the frequencies you can control centred and to play at the same level.

    7. Time align your speakers so that you first hear the sub then the mids together and then the tweets together. Someone here who has the same HU should be able to help you on this.

    8. The end objective is that when everything is set and dialed in, you will hear the sound come from the centre of the windshield. Its quite freaky initially but the sound is great.

    Enjoy

  13. #13

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    You dont have to run the power and signal cables on opposite sides of the car so long as youre not using shielded RCA's. It doesnt hurt anything to do it that way and some say better safe than sorry but if its gonna be more PITA than youre wanting then dont sweat it.

    Leave the amps crossovers off and use the ones on the head unit. This way you can tune them in real time and instantly hear the difference. 24 db is as steep a crossover slope as youre gonna want. You dont want your speakers to instantly stop playing frequencies at their cutoff point because having them play a little into the next drivers range helps them blend in more and thats what you want.

    As for sub placement its going to vary. Different trunks can have different effects on the sound. For most cars, firing the sub to the back of the car is going to have the best results. When firing into the car the wave can bounce off the back of the trunk and into the car but out of phase with the original wave and you will get cancellation. Once youve got your sub in its box, try it firing in, out and up and see which one yields the best response.
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  14. #14

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    use HU xover u can try useing the amp crossovers also especially for sub (and in real time, as long as amps can b in tuning range) i also don't see any problem with steeper slopes, again, especially on subs
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    Gents - Sorry about the slow reply - working 10 straight 12 hour days (understaffed) Work is for sure interfering with the rest of my life :D.

    Dynamat is off budget for now, something I'll take as a project later one door at a time. For now 70% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

    Subs are small (6"). I'm intellectualizing that they will deliver ok at higher x-over frequency level. I'll have to do some listening and see. My boot lid is the rear hatch back glass. Subs will be firing up at the glass - only real choice here due to limited space. Not sure if LF sound tends to reflect off or pass through glass. I'll know soon enough. No matter how it turns out, this should represent a big improvement over the stock system.

    Tweets are still a question mark. I've seen posts here that favor front pillar cross aimed mounting. I've seen pic's of them mounted high on the side of the only 944 build pic I've seen. I have to pull the trim off the pillars and see how tough the install will be. I've cut kick panels to cover the existing speaker hole in the door that will house routed MDF spacer rings. I'll probably surface mount the tweets either way so I'll probably stick em up in different places and see which I like best before final mounting.

    Thanks again for the great advice. I'm sure I'll have more questions when I start tuning / listening. Can hardly wait!
    Best to All!
    -specs :D

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