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  1. #1

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    Default Vinyl Listening Questions . . .

    Ok, it's 2:36 am and I can't remember the last time I've received such enjoyment listening to music. My new TT is making me reconsider whether I even need a cdp.

    That being said, I've noticed two peculiar things:

    First, with the addition of my phono and TT to my system, my tweeters are now picking up a the local classic rock station. This is does not really effect the sound as I can only hear it when I am standing next to the speaker and with no music playing. Other than that, the music is breathtaking. I don't know how anyone could listen to anything less than vinyl anymore.

    Second, my Keb' Mo', Keb' Mo' album between tracks I can hear the first few notes of the next song as if played at a very low volume and then the song kicks in moments later at regular volume. Is this a sign that I don't have the cartridge aligned properly or something? I'd be amazed if I can get my system to sound much better right now. The tone is just breathtaking.

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    Ok to answer my own questions:

    First, the radio station only comes through when the stylus is hanging in the air. Hmmm guess when it's not on the record it becomes a classic rock antenna.

    Two, seems my record is fine and so is my setup. The pre-echoing only occurs on my Keb'Mo' Vinyl. From what I am reading on other forums, this is a natural effect from track "bleed-through" from the master tapes. Hmmm . . . interesting.

    "I suspect that you may be getting bleed-through from the neighbouring tracks - sometimes happens when the recording engineer cutting the master applies a little too much "welly" and puts down a strong signal in the grooves - or when the LP is longer (playing-time) in which case the greooves are closer together and the walls are thinner."

    http://audacityteam.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=102

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    how close do you live to a radio station antenna? I've never heard of a turntable picking up a radio station.. not that it couldn't happen.. But given the low output of cartridges, I can see how it would happen. I have to raise the volume on my pre amp quite a bit more when listening to vinyl than I do for other sources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danger boy View Post
    how close do you live to a radio station antenna? I've never heard of a turntable picking up a radio station.. not that it couldn't happen.. But given the low output of cartridges, I can see how it would happen. I have to raise the volume on my pre amp quite a bit more when listening to vinyl than I do for other sources.
    My jolida has high and low outputs. It only happens on the high outputs, or at least it is only detectable on the high outputs. I use the high outputs as they have pretty much the same volume levels as my cd player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSqual View Post
    Ok to answer my own questions:

    First, the radio station only comes through when the stylus is hanging in the air. Hmmm guess when it's not on the record it becomes a classic rock antenna.

    Two, seems my record is fine and so is my setup. The pre-echoing only occurs on my Keb'Mo' Vinyl. From what I am reading on other forums, this is a natural effect from track "bleed-through" from the master tapes. Hmmm . . . interesting.

    "I suspect that you may be getting bleed-through from the neighbouring tracks - sometimes happens when the recording engineer cutting the master applies a little too much "welly" and puts down a strong signal in the grooves - or when the LP is longer (playing-time) in which case the greooves are closer together and the walls are thinner."

    http://audacityteam.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=102
    That bleed through also sometimes occurs on the master tape thus is passed on by the cutting lathe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSqual View Post
    I don't know how anyone could listen to anything less than vinyl anymore.
    + 1000!!! If I had the same selection of vinyl as I had CDs I would never listen to another CD again. It'll be a while before I amass a record collection that big, until then I will be mixing in both. As for the master tape bleed phenomenon, my copy of Phil Collins Hello I must Be Calling does this as well, luckily I rarely listen to it :) Congratz on the continued vinyl love!!!
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    While I am glad you like your turntable, there is no denying they are a pain in the butt.

    In addition to your FM radio problem, there is also the inherent rumble of the stylus in the groove that occurs during music quiet passages. Or, the negative feedback that occurs when the tone arm picks up the vibrations of the music being played at a loud volume. Additionally, records cost too much, and are damaged every time you play them, which means you either have to eventually rebuy it, or put up with pops, clicks, and skips.

    Rarely is an album, other than classical, worth listening to from beginning to end. This means you have to be very careful to put the stylus in between songs on the record or risk additional damage to the album. Of course, it goes without saying that having to get up and turn the record over is another drag.

    Speaking of the stylus, you need to periodically remove the vinyl it has microscopically gouged out of the record, and the dust it has accumulated, or the sound will be negatively affected. In order to keep the dust accumulation off the stylus the record needs to be periodically cleaned, which is another pain in the butt, and another area where the record can be accidentally damaged.

    Of course, in addition to the records being worn out from being played, the stylus will also wear out and need to be replaced. Or, since it is so delicate, it will be accidentally damaged, and need to be repurchased. Generally, this damage occurs when you accidentally drop the stylus onto the record, which also damages the record.

    Personally, I will never go back to records. While I can appreciate the possibility there might be a slight nuance in improved sound quality over digital music, the negative aspects, some of which are outlined above, ruin it for me. I will continue to invest in better DACs, SACD players, and, eventually lossless Blu-Ray music, for my listening pleasure. In over 20 years of CD use I have never damaged a CD, and that includes time when my listening state was not in the most sober state. Of course, I did learn my CD handling skills by being meticulously careful with my records, so I guess there was one benefit to records.

    Please do not interpret this post as a criticism of your turntable. If you can put up with the negative aspects of records and record players then great. But, for the neophytes coming along who have never experienced the “pleasures” of vinyl, they need to know that there are costs associated with using a record player.
    Last edited by BlueFox; 02-28-2009 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Changed 'a' to 'the'

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    Awesome! Congrats man. Glad you're enjoying it so much. I have to wait until Tuesday to get my first TT:(.

    BlueFox,
    That's some scary stuff. Are you saying, skipping a song, and letting the needle land anywhere except the empty space between songs can cause damage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by organ View Post
    Are you saying, skipping a song, and letting the needle land anywhere except the empty space between songs can cause damage?
    Every time the stylus touches the record, it damages the record. The damage might be microscopic, but it occurs, and is cumulative over time. So, you want the damage to occur in the areas between songs, not in the songs themselves. Better to have the pops and clicks occur when it does not matter, other than being annoying, rather than during the music.

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    OMG! I'll never play another one of my Lp's again now that I'm armed with this knowledge. I'll just look at them collect dust instead. :(

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Every time the stylus touches the record, it damages the record. The damage might be microscopic, but it occurs, and is cumulative over time. So, you want the damage to occur in the areas between songs, not in the songs themselves. Better to have the pops and clicks occur when it does not matter, other than being annoying, rather than during the music.
    Thanks for the help. So far I'm only buying stuff that I really like that I can sit through the entire album.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    While I am glad you like your turntable, there is no denying they are a pain in the butt.

    In addition to your FM radio problem, there is also the inherent rumble of the stylus in the groove that occurs during music quiet passages. Or, the negative feedback that occurs when the tone arm picks up the vibrations of the music being played at a loud volume. Additionally, records cost too much, and are damaged every time you play them, which means you either have to eventually rebuy it, or put up with pops, clicks, and skips.

    Rarely is an album, other than classical, worth listening to from beginning to end. This means you have to be very careful to put the stylus in between songs on the record or risk additional damage to the album. Of course, it goes without saying that having to get up and turn the record over is another drag.

    Speaking of the stylus, you need to periodically remove the vinyl it has microscopically gouged out of the record, and the dust it has accumulated, or the sound will be negatively affected. In order to keep the dust accumulation off the stylus the record needs to be periodically cleaned, which is another pain in the butt, and another area where the record can be accidentally damaged.

    Of course, in addition to the records being worn out from being played, the stylus will also wear out and need to be replaced. Or, since it is so delicate, it will be accidentally damaged, and need to be repurchased. Generally, this damage occurs when you accidentally drop the stylus onto the record, which also damages the record.

    Personally, I will never go back to records. While I can appreciate the possibility there might be a slight nuance in improved sound quality over digital music, the negative aspects, some of which are outlined above, ruin it for me. I will continue to invest in better DACs, SACD players, and, eventually lossless Blu-Ray music, for my listening pleasure. In over 20 years of CD use I have never damaged a CD, and that includes time when my listening state was not in the most sober state. Of course, I did learn my CD handling skills by being meticulously careful with my records, so I guess there was one benefit to records.

    Please do not interpret this post as a criticism of your turntable. If you can put up with the negative aspects of records and record players then great. But, for the neophytes coming along who have never experienced the “pleasures” of vinyl, they need to know that there are costs associated with using a record player.
    Your address of TT/Vinyl costs need to be put in proper perspective. If Vinyl is maintained properly, then it can last a long time. My Dad gave me original Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and The Beatles albums and they still sound better than their CD counterparts.

    Friction creates wear . . . so yes there's cost there, but less so anymore on the record and more so on the stylus itself.

    Vinyl costs money spread out over time. Getting a good CDP to play anywhere close to the sound quality of the Vinyl I am spinning would be a helluva one time expense. My increased enjoyment and involvement with music is priceless.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post

    there is also the inherent rumble of the stylus in the groove that occurs during music quiet passages..
    I don't have that problem in that my cartridge and tonearm are setup perfectly.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Or, the negative feedback that occurs when the tone arm picks up the vibrations of the music being played at a loud volume. .

    I don't have this problem in that I have a fantastic record clamp that dampen vibration and forces the record to make intimate contact with the platter not to mention it drains the airborne and stylus energy into the spindle and down into the bearing shaft where it is rendered harmless. Not to mention the proper setup mentioned above.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Additionally, records cost too much, and are damaged every time you play them, which means you either have to eventually rebuy it, or put up with pops, clicks, and skips.
    I've obtained records for as little as 50 cents and as much as $29. Records are not damaged everytime you play them unless distortion is caused by an improperly setup cartridge/stylus. I have records that are over 35 years old that sound as good as the day I purchased them. Keeping them very clean also prevent this damage thus pop, clicks and skips are avoided.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Rarely is an album, other than classical, worth listening to from beginning to end. This means you have to be very careful to put the stylus in between songs on the record or risk additional damage to the album. Of course, it goes without saying that having to get up and turn the record over is another drag.
    This is not true. I've found that the music on most of my LPs other than classical is just as good as the "hits," you just have to have an open mind. Even if you do accidently drop the stylus even in the middle of a track most tonearms are dampened well enough to gently lower the stylus onto the record thus again no damage. It is however an inconvenience to have to get up to flip the record to the other side after cleaning it but it is a minor inconvenience.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Speaking of the stylus, you need to periodically remove the vinyl it has microscopically gouged out of the record, and the dust it has accumulated, or the sound will be negatively affected. In order to keep the dust accumulation off the stylus the record needs to be periodically cleaned, which is another pain in the butt, and another area where the record can be accidentally damaged.
    There are stylus cleaning methods now that take a few seconds to clean the stylus and are as safe as changing a babies diaper. The record is in no way compromised by these stylus cleaning methods.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Of course, in addition to the records being worn out from being played, the stylus will also wear out and need to be replaced. Or, since it is so delicate, it will be accidentally damaged, and need to be repurchased. Generally, this damage occurs when you accidentally drop the stylus onto the record, which also damages the record.
    Again records are not worn out by just playing them it is distortion caused by and improper cartridge tonearm setup. It is true however that the stylus will wear but todays stylus' like line contact stylus' that will last 1000 or more of use. It is true if you just DROP the stylus on the record it can damage it but a little bit of care reduces this danger.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Personally, I will never go back to records. While I can appreciate the possibility there might be a slight nuance in improved sound quality over digital music, the negative aspects, some of which are outlined above, ruin it for me. I will continue to invest in better DACs, SACD players, and, eventually lossless Blu-Ray music, for my listening pleasure. In over 20 years of CD use I have never damaged a CD, and that includes time when my listening state was not in the most sober state. Of course, I did learn my CD handling skills by being meticulously careful with my records, so I guess there was one benefit to records.
    It seems you have your mind made up about vinyl front ends without really checking out the latest vinyl technology. My records kick the daylights out of CDs and I have a high end tube CD player. SACDs on the other hand are as good sounding as LPs they just sound different.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Please do not interpret this post as a criticism of your turntable.
    LOL! you've done nothing here but bash vinyl.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    If you can put up with the negative aspects of records and record players then great. But, for the neophytes coming along who have never experienced the “pleasures” of vinyl, they need to know that there are costs associated with using a record player.
    Of course it can be expensive getting a good vinyl rig going but the rewards far outweigh the negatives.

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    Excellent info about maintanance and stuff on the 2ch forum. I'm learning a lot from here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared View Post
    I don't have that problem in that my cartridge and tonearm are setup perfectly.





    I don't have this problem in that I have a fantastic record clamp that dampen vibration and forces the record to make intimate contact with the platter not to mention it drains the airborne and stylus energy into the spindle and down into the bearing shaft where it is rendered harmless. Not to mention the proper setup mentioned above.

    I also find that listening to records forces me to listen to all the songs on the album, thereby allowing me to discover songs I don't pay enough attention to normally. With a CD I just jumped to the number one hits, now I listen to music the way the artist intended. It may seem couterintuitive, especially given the industry move towards full access music servers, but I get more out of music now that I have less choice as to what I am listening to.




    I've obtained records for as little as 50 cents and as much as $29. Records are not damaged everytime you play them unless distortion is caused by an improperly setup cartridge/stylus. I have records that are over 35 years old that sound as good as the day I purchased them. Keeping them very clean also prevent this damage thus pop, clicks and skips are avoided.



    This is not true. I've found that the music on most of my LPs other than classical is just as good as the "hits," you just have to have an open mind. Even if you do accidently drop the stylus even in the middle of a track most tonearms are dampened well enough to gently lower the stylus onto the record thus again no damage. It is however an inconvenience to have to get up to flip the record to the other side after cleaning it but it is a minor inconvenience.



    There are stylus cleaning methods now that take a few seconds to clean the stylus and are as safe as changing a babies diaper. The record is in no way compromised by these stylus cleaning methods.



    Again records are not worn out by just playing them it is distortion caused by and improper cartridge tonearm setup. It is true however that the stylus will wear but todays stylus' like line contact stylus' that will last 1000 or more of use. It is true if you just DROP the stylus on the record it can damage it but a little bit of care reduces this danger.



    It seems you have your mind made up about vinyl front ends without really checking out the latest vinyl technology. My records kick the daylights out of CDs and I have a high end tube CD player. SACDs on the other hand are as good sounding as LPs they just sound different.



    LOL! you've done nothing here but bash vinyl.



    Of course it can be expensive getting a good vinyl rig going but the rewards far outweigh the negatives.
    +1 a hundred effing times over. I didn't have it in me to quote each one of his idiot responses. BlueFox, your take on TT/Vinyl is from the perspective of one who listened back in the day on a TT that is subpar by today's standards. I too have absolutely none of the issues you mentioned. I also picked up 45 records for $45 bucks from a local record shop. They are in Great to excellent condition. After a quick wash with my VPI record cleaner, they play like a dream.
    Last edited by SolidSqual; 03-01-2009 at 01:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by organ View Post

    Excellent info about maintanance and stuff on the 2ch forum. I'm learning a lot from here.
    I have records that are 25-30yo in my collection that still sound's excellent. With proper cleaning and storage vinyl can stand the test of time. I'm with hearingimpared on all points of a properly set up turntable. Combine that and a good maintenance routine, your vinyl will last years and provide a lot of enjoyment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared View Post
    I don't have that problem in that my cartridge and tonearm are setup perfectly.



    I've obtained records for as little as 50 cents and as much as $29. Records are not damaged everytime you play them unless distortion is caused by an improperly setup cartridge/stylus. I have records that are over 35 years old that sound as good as the day I purchased them. Keeping them very clean also prevent this damage thus pop, clicks and skips are avoided.



    This is not true. I've found that the music on most of my LPs other than classical is just as good as the "hits," you just have to have an open mind. Even if you do accidently drop the stylus even in the middle of a track most tonearms are dampened well enough to gently lower the stylus onto the record thus again no damage. It is however an inconvenience to have to get up to flip the record to the other side after cleaning it but it is a minor inconvenience.



    There are stylus cleaning methods now that take a few seconds to clean the stylus and are as safe as changing a babies diaper. The record is in no way compromised by these stylus cleaning methods.



    Again records are not worn out by just playing them it is distortion caused by and improper cartridge tonearm setup. It is true however that the stylus will wear but todays stylus' like line contact stylus' that will last 1000 or more of use. It is true if you just DROP the stylus on the record it can damage it but a little bit of care reduces this danger.



    It seems you have your mind made up about vinyl front ends without really checking out the latest vinyl technology. My records kick the daylights out of CDs and I have a high end tube CD player. SACDs on the other hand are as good sounding as LPs they just sound different.



    LOL! you've done nothing here but bash vinyl.



    Of course it can be expensive getting a good vinyl rig going but the rewards far outweigh the negatives.
    +1 a hundred effing times over. I didn't have it in me to quote each one of his idiot responses. BlueFox, your take on TT/Vinyl is from the perspective of one who listened back in the day on a TT that is subpar by today's standards. I too have absolutely none of the issues you mentioned. I also picked up 45 records for $45 bucks from a local record shop. They are in Great to excellent condition. After a quick wash with my VPI record cleaner, they play like a dream.

    I also find that listening to records forces me to listen to all the songs on the album, thereby allowing me to discover songs I don't pay enough attention to normally. With a CD I just jumped to the number one hits, now I listen to music the way the artist intended. It may seem couterintuitive, especially given the industry move towards full access music servers, but I get more out of music now that I have less choice as to what I am listening to.

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    I agree with almost all the points mentioned above, and at the same time they are validating my point of record players being a pain in the butt.

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    I hate the ritual of vinyl...but love the sound. The latter outweighs the former...which is why I have as many LPs as I do CDs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    I agree with almost all the points mentioned above, and at the same time they are validating my point of record players being a pain in the butt.
    Well, with ownership comes responsibility. Maybe I don't see it as a chore as I grew up wth vinyl, and haven't adopted some of the rabid methods my colleagues employ.:D

    I think it is important for a newb to look at both sides before getting into vinyl. (Did anyone mention storage?) However, misinformation shouldn’t come into play. If records did wear that badly, I am surprised that some of mine haven’t worn clean through.

    Here is some older linkage I have saved that may provide some insight to vinyl wear (with pictures).


    http://www.micrographia.com/projec/p...y/viny0000.htm


    I have many records which are the best part of fifty years old, and as smooth and quiet as the day they were pressed.

    I can only hope that my CDs last as well.


    Joe, maybe check and see if you can get a guvment grant to study record wear?:D
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSqual View Post
    +1 a hundred effing times over. I didn't have it in me to quote each one of his idiot responses. BlueFox, your take on TT/Vinyl is from the perspective of one who listened back in the day on a TT that is subpar by today's standards. I too have absolutely none of the issues you mentioned. I also picked up 45 records for $45 bucks from a local record shop. They are in Great to excellent condition. After a quick wash with my VPI record cleaner, they play like a dream.
    Okay, idiot responses or not, he's still entitled to his opinion. Very uncalled for to put idiot in your sentence, I suggest you edit your post and take that out. We'll all still get the picture....

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorthos
    Okay, idiot responses or not, he's still entitled to his opinion. Very uncalled for to put idiot in your sentence, I suggest you edit your post and take that out. We'll all still get the picture....

    Thanks
    As is Solidsqual's. If he views the comments as idiotic and says so...so be it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorthos View Post
    Okay, idiot responses or not, he's still entitled to his opinion. Very uncalled for to put idiot in your sentence, I suggest you edit your post and take that out. We'll all still get the picture....

    Thanks
    Apparently he wasn't calling "Blue Fox" and idiot. Blue Fox was basing his opinions and statements based on fallacy and not current experience. The statements were idiotic but I don't think Blue Fox is an idiot. I think he has a thicker skin that what you have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSqual View Post
    I also find that listening to records forces me to listen to all the songs on the album, thereby allowing me to discover songs I don't pay enough attention to normally. With a CD I just jumped to the number one hits, now I listen to music the way the artist intended.
    Wow I made this exact same statement word for word during another vinyl vs CD debate. I'm afraid we are of the same mind and my mind is diseased.:D:p

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    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared
    Wow I made this exact same statement word for word during another vinyl vs CD debate. I'm afraid we are of the same mind and my mind is diseased.:D:p
    Same here. One of the vivid memories in my musical listening past was when some radio stations moved from "top 40" to album format. Instead of the same old hits over and over we actually heard all of an album...and ultimately some absolutely great music. It started with college or even some "pirate" stations. I remember the first time I heard it thinking DAMN! They played the whole thing....COOL!

    Rarely is an album, other than classical, worth listening to from beginning to end.
    Even if this pisses Lorthos off...this is an absolutely idiotic statement IMO...even if it is his opinion. I could reel off many albums that in my opinion don't have a weak or a bad track... and there are even some that are lacking if one DOESN'T listen from beginning to end. There was a time when an album was not just a collection of tracks, but it was a work from beginning to end. Sure, there are some that have filler...but there are many, many that are worth listening to in their entirety.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson

  26. #26

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    I see we are all in agreement on the aspects of records that are a pain in the butt, even if some of you do not like to admit it. Everything I said was true 20 years ago, and it is still true today. Granted, record player technology has improved over time, but all the drawbacks I listed still exist. Perhaps, some are now mitigated by improved technology, but it appears the better the mitigation, the greater the pain in the butt, and the higher the expense. Interestingly, the expense and the inconvenience of record players appear to be directly proportional.

    Of course, there is nothing wrong with any of that. If someone wants to put up with the hassle of records then great. As I said, to me it is not worth it, and I will never (well, never say never) go back to that technology.

    Now, with all that out of the way, I admit I do find myself interested in the turntables that are rampant each month in “stereophile” advertisements and reviews. When I first subscribed to that magazine I was a little disappointed since they seemed to focus on the high-end, and were stuck in the past with tubes and turntables, but I stuck with it, now enjoy it, and usually learn something useful each issue.

    So, do not be surprised if at some point in the future I do shell out a few thousand dollars for a record player just to play a couple of LPs I bought to justify the turntable, tone arm, cartridge, phono preamp, and assorted cleaning products purchase. Ugh. What a vicious cycle. And while I will certainly appreciate it from a musical and technology perspective, I will be cursing to myself every time I clean a record, clean the stylus, isolate and level the turntable, balance the tone arm, install a new cartridge, align the cartridge, accidentally drop a record, bump into the rack and cause the tone arm to skip over the record, break something because the parts are so delicate, or do any of the other things that easily damage a record.

    Or maybe I will wait for the ultimate turn table where the record is played in a vacuum sealed compartment, suspended and rotated using anti-gravity technology, and the stylus never touches the record while extracting the information via a laser.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    I see we are all in agreement on the aspects of records that are a pain in the butt, even if some of you do not like to admit it. Everything I said was true 20 years ago, and it is still true today. Granted, record player technology has improved over time, but all the drawbacks I listed still exist. Perhaps, some are now mitigated by improved technology, but it appears the better the mitigation, the greater the pain in the butt, and the higher the expense. Interestingly, the expense and the inconvenience of record players appear to be directly proportional.

    Of course, there is nothing wrong with any of that. If someone wants to put up with the hassle of records then great. As I said, to me it is not worth it, and I will never (well, never say never) go back to that technology.

    Now, with all that out of the way, I admit I do find myself interested in the turntables that are rampant each month in “stereophile” advertisements and reviews. When I first subscribed to that magazine I was a little disappointed since they seemed to focus on the high-end, and were stuck in the past with tubes and turntables, but I stuck with it, now enjoy it, and usually learn something useful each issue.

    So, do not be surprised if at some point in the future I do shell out a few thousand dollars for a record player just to play a couple of LPs I bought to justify the turntable, tone arm, cartridge, phono preamp, and assorted cleaning products purchase. Ugh. What a vicious cycle. And while I will certainly appreciate it from a musical and technology perspective, I will be cursing to myself every time I clean a record, clean the stylus, isolate and level the turntable, balance the tone arm, install a new cartridge, align the cartridge, accidentally drop a record, bump into the rack and cause the tone arm to skip over the record, break something because the parts are so delicate, or do any of the other things that easily damage a record.

    Or maybe I will wait for the ultimate turn table where the record is played in a vacuum sealed compartment, suspended and rotated using anti-gravity technology, and the stylus never touches the record while extracting the information via a laser.
    Hey Bro, laser turntables already exist. Here is the link. If you go this route you would only have to clean the records with a dry brush.

    I do have to admit that sometimes it is a pain in the ass for me when I buy used records and have to go through my four step cleaning process to treat them when I just feel like sitting my big butt down and listening, but hey it goes with the vinyl territory.

    One thing I disagree with what you just wrote. You usually only have to do the TT/tonearm/cart setup once and maybe every 200 hours to make sure every is still where it should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    I see we are all in agreement on the aspects of records that are a pain in the butt, even if some of you do not like to admit it. Everything I said was true 20 years ago, and it is still true today. Granted, record player technology has improved over time, but all the drawbacks I listed still exist. Perhaps, some are now mitigated by improved technology, but it appears the better the mitigation, the greater the pain in the butt, and the higher the expense. Interestingly, the expense and the inconvenience of record players appear to be directly proportional.

    Of course, there is nothing wrong with any of that. If someone wants to put up with the hassle of records then great. As I said, to me it is not worth it, and I will never (well, never say never) go back to that technology.

    Now, with all that out of the way, I admit I do find myself interested in the turntables that are rampant each month in “stereophile” advertisements and reviews. When I first subscribed to that magazine I was a little disappointed since they seemed to focus on the high-end, and were stuck in the past with tubes and turntables, but I stuck with it, now enjoy it, and usually learn something useful each issue.

    So, do not be surprised if at some point in the future I do shell out a few thousand dollars for a record player just to play a couple of LPs I bought to justify the turntable, tone arm, cartridge, phono preamp, and assorted cleaning products purchase. Ugh. What a vicious cycle. And while I will certainly appreciate it from a musical and technology perspective, I will be cursing to myself every time I clean a record, clean the stylus, isolate and level the turntable, balance the tone arm, install a new cartridge, align the cartridge, accidentally drop a record, bump into the rack and cause the tone arm to skip over the record, break something because the parts are so delicate, or do any of the other things that easily damage a record.

    Or maybe I will wait for the ultimate turn table where the record is played in a vacuum sealed compartment, suspended and rotated using anti-gravity technology, and the stylus never touches the record while extracting the information via a laser.
    Got my VPI 16.5 a few days ago. My Dad won't leave my place because he can't stop cleaning his old LPs with it. Seems he's of the mind that some things have become easier since his day. Not to mention any of the tweaking require to mitigate vibrations and what not is a one time tweak done when you set your table up. It was pretty easy too. My Pro-ject RM5 SE was up and running beautifully in an hour.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared View Post
    Apparently he wasn't calling "Blue Fox" and idiot. Blue Fox was basing his opinions and statements based on fallacy and not current experience. The statements were idiotic but I don't think Blue Fox is an idiot. I think he has a thicker skin that what you have.
    I don't know, all the bull**** I've went through over the years, its pretty thick......

    Just trying to keep the forum a respectable place, if nothing else I respect people and don't try and put them down......thats all.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorthos View Post
    I don't know, all the bull**** I've went through over the years, its pretty thick......

    Just trying to keep the forum a respectable place, if nothing else I respect people and don't try and put them down......thats all.....
    Understood.:)

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