Speakers: Polkaudio / Sony in Home Theater

[Bernal]

HELLO:), I am new to this forum.
I am building my Home Teather and has the following components:
1) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater/MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi
2) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
3) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
4) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
5) SONY SS-MSP16 LEFT (Surround speaker / Rated impendance: 4 ohms Watts: 185)
6) SONY SS-MSP16 RIGHT (Surround speaker / Rated impendance: 4 ohms Watts: 185)
7) SONY SS-CNP16 LEFT (Surround back speaker / Rated impendance: 4 ohms Watts: 185)
8) SONY SA-WP16 ( Sub woofer 2X200W)

SONY speakers are compatible with LSi POLKAUDIO Serie.
SETUP IS CORRECT.

[cnh]

I'm not familiar with those Sony speakers (speakers not one of Sony's strengths). The Denon is a great receiver but your LSIs, especially the 15s could use even more power...those are 4 ohm speakers that can soak up, need, TONS of power to really get good sound out. You can add a good 3 channel power amp, at least 200 watts per channel for those.

Others will come in on this. Consider HSU, SVS, Sunfire, Velodyne...etc. SUBS....

Welcome to the CLUB P. Great system you're building!!!

cnh

[Bernal]

Thanks for your reply.
Denon AVR-4308CI: Power Output, 140 Watts Per Channel.
Why LSI need more power? You can help me understand?

[cnh]

Most people here, who have LSI fronts run at least 200 watts power amps or in reality 300+ watts at 4 ohm loads for those speakers. They don't really 'open' up their sound fully unless you give them that kind of power. They're VERY POWER HUNGRY speakers. I've heard them run off a Pioneer Elite that could put out 130 or so per Channel...and they sounded FLAT with that amp. Not enough push.

Most owners will agree. What I'd do is use the search engine and see how many people with LSI-15s are running a minimum of 300w/channel at 4 ohms.

I know it sounds 'crazy' since that 4308 is so powerful in 8 ohms but it would strain at 4 ohms--even though it would drive the LSIs just like the Pioneer did.

cnh

[Bernal]

According to the Manual Denon 4308Ci specified that if the speakers are 4 ohms power is 240w/channel.
In the movie Star Wars "A New Hope" Sound Dolby 5.1 Surround Ex the THX introduction to a volume of -10dB, the sound exceeding 120 dB in the Digital Sound Level Meter maintain harmony.
I have just installed LSi15, LsiC Polkaudio and SONY SA-WP16 (Sub woofer 2X200W) NO other speakers to better investigate the compatibility

[Bernal]

Attached pictures of the Sony speakers.
1) SONY SS-MSP16 LEFT (Surround speaker / Rated impendance: 4 ohms Watts: 185)
2) SONY SS-MSP16 RIGHT (Surround speaker / Rated impendance: 4 ohms Watts: 185)
3) SONY SS-CNP16 (Surround back speaker / Rated impendance: 4 ohms Watts: 185)
4) SONY SA-WP16 ( Sub woofer 2X200W).
SONY speakers are compatible with LSi POLKAUDIO Serie.

[cnh]

Hi again,

I have a copy of your Denon manual. So let me try to unpack the numbers a bit. According to the manual the DYNAMIC output for 2 channels 'only' at 4 ohms is 220W. The Amp itself does not provide a TRUE figure for driving 4 ohm loads and a 6-8 ohm is recommended for speakers. Dynamic output is not the same as RMS continuous...it is an 'inflated' number.

Example. I have a Boston sub that is 200 watts RMS but over 600 watts DYNAMIC. That only means it can hit short music spikes at 600 not a sustained output.

In contrast let's look at the specs on something like an Adcom GFA-555 2 channel power amp....325 watts X 2 Continuous RMS at 4 ohms with 0.25 percent distortion.

Figures don't mean everything, design also matters. The Adcom has huge Capacitors with 60,000microfarads in capaticance. A tremendous storage capability, some power amps even have twice that or more!

The AVR 4308 is a wonderful receiver but it does have power limitations compared to a dedicated 2/3 channel power amp. And that will make a difference not just in db levels (how loud something sounds) but in how clean and how dynamic that sound is, etc.

cnh

[donedroolin]

I have the LSi15's and tried them with a Sony 110 watt per channel for a very short time. Then I purchased a seperate amp and controller and now I am pushing 400 watts continuios to my speakers. Let me tell you the LSi's BARK with proper amplifcation. Under powering your speakers can damage them. More power is better. Be carefull not to run them untill they start clipping. Not familiar with the Sony speakers but I don't think they are timbre matched or any comparision to the POLK LSi15's.

[Bernal]

CNH
Hi again,

I do not have much experience in the field and I appreciate your interest. The data are very technical and can not understand.
Can embed an Adcom GFA-555 with AVR 4308CI?
As I do?
If I buy an Adcom GFA-555 means you get better sound quality?.

[cnh]

CNH
Hi again,

I do not have much experience in the field and I appreciate your interest. The data are very technical and can not understand.
Can embed an Adcom GFA-555 with AVR 4308CI?
As I do?
If I buy an Adcom GFA-555 means you get better sound quality?.

You don't have to buy an Adcom, you can look at any good power amp. And you may want a 3 channel for those LSIs. Can you use a power amp on a Denon, yes, on any model 2800 or above. Your 4308 has 8 pre-outs on its back side that would allow you to bypass the internal amp and use the Denon as a processor/pre-amp to control the volume, tone, etc. of the external power amp. Good amps often discussed on this site include, Parasound, Rotel, Adcom, Emotiva, Carver, Cambridge Audio, Pass labs, B&K, Bryston, some pricier than others, etc. Each has its characteristics. If you can listen to some and see what you like.

Compared to your system I've gone 'cheap', I use my Denon 2807 as a pre/pro for an Adcom 555; works fine. You can do 'better'.

Currently one of our members is selling a really nice ROTEL two channel--take a look at that thread--it's a nice one. You can also peruse www.audiogon.com which is a site where people sell their 'used' gear--most of which is in very good shape at a much 'lower' price than buying it new. It's the easiest/cheapest way to upgrade...and it's pretty safe!

cnh

[cnh]

Hi Bernal,

Are you spanish posts quotes, or your assessments? Because if those are yours you seem to have a very extensive knowledge of gear, especially Polk LSIs?

Just wondering?

cnh

[Bernal]

Hi,

Reviews in Spanish which helped me acquire the LSi and say that I think are important contributions to CEC Magazine (Home Theater HiFi) www.revistacec.com

[cnh]

Thanks,

I'm familiar with Home Theater HiFi....good stuff! We keep forgetting that we have an international community 'here'. You can find a number of reviews by owners of Polk products in Spanish. My own skills there are not what they used to be back in High School...took four years of the language and could read fairly well, but studied German in college. I didn't keep up with it. Can still make some of that out though.

cnh

[Bernal]

Hi,
I can explain "Your 4308 has 8 pre-outs on its back side that would allow you to bypass the internal amp and use the Denon as a processor / pre-amp to control the volume, tone, etc.. Of the external power amp. "
Step means that the signal from 4308 (pre-outs) to the amplifier and then to the speakers?
Is correct. Works well.

[cnh]

That's it, you run cables from the pre-outs on the Denon to the RCAs ins on the Power amp, then wire the speakers you will run with the power amp directly to the power amp. The Denon will then allow you to operate and control everything else. You can do this for 2 channels, 3 channels, 5 channels or even 7. I would suggest you do the front 3 channels and run the surrounds with the Denon's internal amps? Because your fronts are the most important.

If you have the 'money' you can use mono-blocks (one power amp per channel) which is three separate amps for 3 speakers; if not just get a 3 channel power amp.

cnh

[Bernal]

Hi,
1) My equipment supplier gives me the following options:
ADCOM GFA-7707
Channels: 7
Power Per Channel: 200 watts (8Ω);
300 watts (4Ω)
Power Bandwidth: 3 Hz-130 kHz
ADCOM GFA-7705
Channels: 5
Power Per Channel: 200 watts (8Ω);
300 watts (4Ω)
Power Bandwidth: 3 Hz-130 kHz.
2) I said that the ADCOM GFA-7607 Power Per Channel: 125 watts (8Ω) would be equally Denon AVR-4308CI. Is that true?
3) I can explain. I do not understand. If I buy an Adcom 7607 remain unchanged. What is better if I add an Adcom amp to the speaker LSi.
4)Gives me the speakers LSiF / X for Surround Sound, PSW1000/PSW505 for SubWoffer. You think of the recommendation?

[zx_toth]

My understanding is the Adcom's regardless of whether it is the 770X or 760X can handle 4 ohm speakers while the Denon is not rated to work well with 4 ohm speakers. Thus I wouldnt worry about the wattage rating so much as the fact that the Adcom are rated to work with 4 ohm speakers ... that is teh important piece of information.

Zsolt

[Bernal]

Ok. If it is important that Adcom is working with 4 ohms, the power that goes with my Denon? Buy Adcom shortest for example.

[Bernal]

Hi,
Researchers found in "www.hometheaterhifi.com" the next report. If so, why I need a amplifier?.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/recei...w.html?start=2

“Conclusions:
Personally, there are two major things I associate with a receiver bearing the Denon brand name: feature-richness and quality performance. The AVR-4308CI exemplifies both of these characteristics to a tee. As you can tell from the body of this review, the 4308CI is not wanting for any feature. Basically if it is out there, this unit has it. From the network functions, to the audio codecs, to the video processing, you won't be left wishing there were something else this receiver could do (at least not until some super new 10 channel super surround audio codec is released!). As for performance, this is what I would expect in something from Denon, that is to say this receiver sounded nothing short of magnificent. No matter what movie, album, or format I tested, the 4308CI was simply outstanding. The amplifiers, capable of an advertised 140 watts per channel, never got tired, even as I played source material at reference levels. I think our own Brian Florian said it best that nowadays we are after the “True Sound”, meaning the receiver's reproduction of the source material is so true to the original that it doesn't call attention to itself as “bright”, “warm”, or any other adjective. The Denon fits that bill. It takes anything you throw at it and lets your speakers shine.
The bottom line here, as you have probably already guessed, is that the AVR-4308CI what I had hoped it would be over a year ago. At an MSRP of $2,499, this is definitely on the higher end of the receiver spectrum. However, when you consider what it brings to the table and how much separate components that do all of these things would cost, it may actually be a bargain. Kudos to Denon for putting out a product that is an excellent achievement in the audio/video receiver category.”

"Some Responses:
written by Gabe , July 25, 2008

Sorry for the delay in answering these questions...

Internet Radio Stations:
Yes, you can customize a list of Internet Radio Channels and play them without having a computer in the path. It is much easier to CREATE the channel list on a computer, but once there, the channels stream directly.

THX Certification:
Well, I don't know that I would say this is a deal breaker. THX certification simply means that the component meets a certain set of standards and features as defined by the THX certification, and has been tested to meet these requirements by THX. Just because the Denon doesn't have that label doesn't mean it doesn't meet those standards. It likely means that Denon simply didn't want to pay to have this unit certified. I certainly would NOT rule a component out of my short list for a home theater simply because it is not THX certified. Again, it will be about what sounds/looks good to you with your own eyes and ears!

4 Ohm loads:
This receiver can definitely connect to speakers rated for 4 Ohms. There is a protection circuit that will trigger and shut the unit down if you try to drive the speakers to hard and the receiver heats up as a result, but I would imagine you need to drive them very hard for a very long time and have bad ventilation for this to occur."

[cnh]

The protection circuit in the Denon reduces that amount of power it will output in 4 ohms that's where the problem lies in driving the LSIs to their full capabilities.

Zx is right above, both lower end Adcoms will put out 175 watts per channel at 4 ohms...the Denon will not be able do that!

cnh

[Bernal]

The protection circuit in the Denon reduces that amount of power it will output in 4 ohms that's where the problem lies in driving the LSIs to their full capabilities.

Zx is right above, both lower end Adcoms will put out 175 watts per channel at 4 ohms...the Denon will not be able do that!

cnh

I would get the Adcom 7705, the 5 channel and let your Denon handle the last two channels of the 7.1, you really don't need to worry about those back channels that much. And get the best sub you can afford? Depends a lot on the size of your room.

Just my opinion.

cnh

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok. I understand. :)
Thank you. Final question: the ADCOM GFA-7705 is the best option? I can recommend other options makes and models. ;)
Thank you

B.

[Bernal]

Hi,
I received the update from my speakers:
POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT
POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT.:D

---------------------------------------------------
1) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
2) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
3) DENON DVD-1740: Progressive Scan DVD Video/CD Player
4) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
5) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
6) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
7) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
8) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
9) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
10) SONY SS-CNP16 LEFT (Surround back speaker)
11) SONY SA-WP16 ( Sub Woofer 2X200W)

[cnh]

Congratulations,

You've got a very nice system there!

cnh

[Bernal]

Congratulations,

You've got a very nice system there!

cnh

Thanks friend.
Any recommendations?.:)

[cnh]

Hi Bernal,

What else are you looking for? You have the Denon, did you get the power amp? If so, you now have all your speakers plus power.

You might want to think about SUBS...those Sony's are low grade subs? But I don't want you to spend 'more' unless you can afford it...lot's of guys here can step in on this.

cnh

[Bernal]

Hi,
Set up my system as 5.1. Remove Sony. The sound is exceptional. At a friend's house: We test and 5.1 in 7.1? getting better effects in pure 5.1. Using "Blu-ray" is little difference between 7.1. and 5.1. These results are correct?.


---------------------------------------------------
1) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
2) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
3) DENON DVD-1740: Progressive Scan DVD Video/CD Player
4) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
5) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
6) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
7) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
8) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
9) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
10) SONY SA-WP16 ( Sub Woofer 2X200W)

[zx_toth]

Hi Bernal,

There is not alot of true 7.1 material out there to take advantage of the 7.1 sound at this point. Additionally 7.1 is not for everyone because of room layouts. For example if your couch is against your back wall or very little room between the two having speakers in the back will not yield the more encompassing sound because your ears will be able to localize where the sound is coming from. Not sure how much space is recommended between the seating places and rear back speakers in a optimized 7.1 setup however you may want to consult the Dolby Labs website or the THX website.

Your own critical listening answered your own question, so you dont really need our opinion do you ;)

Z

[Bernal]

Hi Bernal,

There is not alot of true 7.1 material out there to take advantage of the 7.1 sound at this point. Additionally 7.1 is not for everyone because of room layouts. For example if your couch is against your back wall or very little room between the two having speakers in the back will not yield the more encompassing sound because your ears will be able to localize where the sound is coming from. Not sure how much space is recommended between the seating places and rear back speakers in a optimized 7.1 setup however you may want to consult the Dolby Labs website or the THX website.

Your own critical listening answered your own question, so you dont really need our opinion do you ;)

Z

Hi Z,
Thanks for the information.
I thought at the results from 5.1. and 7.1.
So the 7.1 is more commercial than real?
I have in my living room space.
The POLKAUDIO LSif / x LEFT (Surround speaker) are positioned in the rear wall and is separated 45 inches.
Recommendations to improve

---------------------------------------------------
1) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
2) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
3) DENON DVD-1740: Progressive Scan DVD Video/CD Player
4) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
5) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
6) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
7) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
8) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
9) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
10) SONY SA-WP16 ( Sub Woofer 2X200W)

[Bernal]

Hello everyone.
Very Happy. I have completed my system today with the arrival of my subwoofer Optimum Series (4 Ohms). Integrated with LSI as the angels sing.
Thank you
BRR.


----------------------
01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's:D
03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
04) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport (change for a OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player will be available soon)
05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS):)

[devani]

so you have an amp powering those LSi15's correct??? congrats...now honestly how are the sounds?? are they different?? better??