The need for HDMI?

[nooshinjohn]

I am NOT starting a cable bashing thread here. I seek to understand the value/need for HDMI vs COMPOSITE cables. I am wanting to replace my Yamaha RXV-861, which has HDMI 1.3... I am having trouble finding a pre/pro that supports 7.1 and HDMI 1.3 or any HDMI for that matter in a price range that I am looking to be in (1000.00 or less) So the question is will I be able to detect much of a difference between HDMI/Composite?

My TV is an LG 42" lcd with 1080p and I do also run a sony Blu-ray.

[BlueFox]

Google is your friend.

http://www.hdmi.org/
http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx
http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdmi.htm

[disneyjoe7]

HDMI provides an one cable connection over anything else. As anything would require video and audio cables. HDMI can offer higher res sound over optical a plus with your Blu-Ray.

[nooshinjohn]

so, does anyone make an affordable pre whith hdmi 1.3 or should I stay with my Yami for a while longer?

[disneyjoe7]

Pre you got me on that one, but I think you may wish to keep it separate somewhat. 2 channel vs. HT ;) At least thats my thinking.

[comfortablycurt]

The Integra DHC-9.9/OnkyoPro PR-SC886p and the Marantz AV-8003 both support 7.1, plus HDMI 1.3.

There are several others, but these are the two that came to mind. They're both slightly above your price range of 1000 though...more in the 1300-1400 range.

HDMI is necessary in order to get the newest sound codecs, Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio.

[lightman1]

I like pie.

[treitz3]

John, you seriously have to ask that?

[mmadden28]

.... So the question is will I be able to detect much of a difference between HDMI/Composite?

Absolutely. Composite is the lowest quality video connection option.
It also will not do High Def.

I can only imagine that you actually meant Component?? Composite is a single yellow color coded RCA connection. Component is 3 separate Red, Green and Blue color coded RCA connections.

I am also pretty sure that you won't get Full 1080p via Component due to HDCP copy protection. That and I don't think the lossless HD audio formats are available unless you use HDMI.

[messiah]

John, you seriously have to ask that?

Was your response helpful?

[lightman1]

Was your response helpful?

Yep. Makes him think about the answer to his own question as opposed to expecting what he wants to hear from others.

[NotaSuv]

I love a good pie...............

[nooshinjohn]

Absolutely. Composite is the lowest quality video connection option.
It also will not do High Def.

I can only imagine that you actually meant Component?? Composite is a single yellow color coded RCA connection. Component is 3 separate Red, Green and Blue color coded RCA connections.

I am also pretty sure that you won't get Full 1080p via Component due to HDCP copy protection. That and I don't think the lossless HD audio formats are available unless you use HDMI.

yes... I meant component... my bad...:o I was llokng adt a Sunfire tgp5 but found in only handles HDMI 1.1 and does not do audio thru the HDMI, hence my question.

[McLoki]

If you want high def picture and sound it is a one cable solution vs. 11.

You can try to route a single HDMi cable or you can route a component cable (with the 3 wires associated with it) for picture and 8 cables for sound (assuming 7.1 audio).

Between the two - I go HDMi, but it is your choice.

Michael

[nooshinjohn]

Yep. Makes him think about the answer to his own question as opposed to expecting what he wants to hear from others.

I know HDMI is the best way to go already. The question was will I SEE/HEAR an appreciable difference.

[McLoki]

I know HDMI is the best way to go already. The question was will I SEE/HEAR an appreciable difference.

It depends on which has the better decoders - your Blu-Ray player or your TV and Pre/Pro.

For digital signals like HDMi - the signal is decoded in your TV or Pre/Pro. For Analog signals like component or the 7.1 cables - everything will be decoded in your source (Blu-Ray player).

Which looks or sounds better depends on which has the better decoders in it. (and in the case of analog - cables can make a big difference as well)

Michael

[Toolfan66]

I always wondered this as well, with HDMI i get a better picture as far as audio i think it was the same.

[WilliamM2]

I know HDMI is the best way to go already. The question was will I SEE/HEAR an appreciable difference.

If you don't use HDMI, you will be limited to 1080i for Blu-Ray, and no upscaling of DVD's.

As far as audio, the decoding in the player should be equal to the decoding in a reciever/pre-pro, BUT you will be limited to the bass management in the player. Most players have fixed crossover points, some as high as 120hz. Not ideal in most situations.

[digitalvideo]

I posted this on a different section of the website, so I'll post it here because it has to deal with a wire company that makes HDMI cables claiming it is future proof. Is this HDMI cable and it's claims legit?

http://www.amazon.com/PROFESSIONAL-B...9571417&sr=8-3

[cheddar]

For digital signals like HDMi - the signal is decoded in your TV or Pre/Pro. For Analog signals like component or the 7.1 cables - everything will be decoded in your source (Blu-Ray player).

For lossless audio -- DAC (Digital/Analog Conversion) it makes a difference which DAC chips you use. Either in the Pre/Pro or the player (output to analog outs). For decoding the lossless audio signal (uncompressing TrueHD and DTS-HD MA into uncompressed PCM), it doesn't make much of a difference. You will get a lossless decoding either in the pre/pro or the player. And the PCM still needs to be processed and converted to analog in the pre/pro. And either bitstreaming to the pre/pro for decoding or decoding in the player and transferring the uncompressed PCM requires an hdmi cable, and it's still all digital no matter where the 'decoding' takes place.

[cheddar]

I should clarify that it's all digital unless you then use the player's DACs to convert the decoded PCM into analog and out to the player's analog outs.

[digitalvideo]

For lossless audio -- DAC (Digital/Analog Conversion) it makes a difference which DAC chips you use. Either in the Pre/Pro or the player (output to analog outs). For decoding the lossless audio signal (uncompressing TrueHD and DTS-HD MA into uncompressed PCM), it doesn't make much of a difference. You will get a lossless decoding either in the pre/pro or the player. And the PCM still needs to be processed and converted to analog in the pre/pro. And either bitstreaming to the pre/pro for decoding or decoding in the player and transferring the uncompressed PCM requires an hdmi cable, and it's still all digital no matter where the 'decoding' takes place.

Both the Pioneer Elite SC-05/07/09 recievers claim they pass full HDMI through their recievers untouched with what they claim is a "Do no harm" approach.

The new Oppo BDP-83 universal player coming out soon also claims their system will have direct DSD over HDMI and DSD to analog without going through a PCM conversion. It supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Does those features on those machines counter what you said in the above quote or no? I'm curious as to the advantages and disadvantages of direct DSD over HDMI and DSD to analog without going through a PCM conversion.

[cheddar]

Both the Pioneer Elite SC-05/07/09 recievers claim they pass full HDMI through their recievers untouched with what they claim is a "Do no harm" approach.

The new Oppo BDP-83 universal player coming out soon also claims their system will have direct DSD over HDMI and DSD to analog without going through a PCM conversion. It supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Does those features on those machines counter what you said in the above quote or no? I'm curious as to the advantages and disadvantages of direct DSD over HDMI and DSD to analog without going through a PCM conversion.

DSD doesn't have anything to do with TrueHD and DTS-HD MA. I clearly stated I was talking about lossless audio.

[cnh]

One of our senior members was complaining about a pre/pro that does HDMI 'right' for all uses. Don't remember the thread.

HDMI 1.1 can stream 7.1 LPCM at 96khz if it is 'audio enabled'. Personally, I don't think it's a terrible idea to get an AVR in that price range whose 'sound' you like and that has good DACs and use the pass through feature? The Pioneers suggested are nice. A moderately priced Harman Kardon, perhaps an AVR 354 might fill the bill at even less than 1000? Most all new mid-range AVRs can do HDMI and do it fairly well for a blu-ray player. The other thing to consider is that Pre/pros usually lag behind on this technology...which is what some of our long time members have been complaining about as well.

Others can chyme in here? I'm currently using a mid-level Denon as a pre/pro...and I'm fairly happy with it?

The Onkyo Integra 9.9 good by pricey...above your range!

cnh

[cheddar]

One of our senior members was complaining about a pre/pro that does HDMI 'right' for all uses. Don't remember the thread.

HDMI 1.1 can stream 7.1 LPCM at 96khz if it is 'audio enabled'. Personally, I don't think it's a terrible idea to get an AVR in that price range whose 'sound' you like and that has good DACs and use the pass through feature? The Pioneers suggested are nice. A moderately priced Harman Kardon, perhaps an AVR 354 might fill the bill at even less than 1000? Most all new mid-range AVRs can do HDMI and do it fairly well for a blu-ray player. The other thing to consider is that Pre/pros usually lag behind on this technology...which is what some of our long time members have been complaining about as well.

Others can chyme in here? I'm currently using a mid-level Denon as a pre/pro...and I'm fairly happy with it?

The Onkyo Integra 9.9 good by pricey...above your range!

cnh

With the wide availability of hdmi 1.3 components and lossless decoding these days, I wouldn't put an hdmi 1.1 AVR in the mix. You won't have the option to buy a blu-ray player without on-board lossless decoding in the future and still get at lossless audio via bistreaming to the AVR. Players with on-board decoding tend to cost more. There's nothing wrong with using an AVR as a pre/pro. But people tend to get pre/pros for their advantages outside of home theater.

[cnh]

I fully agree Cheddar,

I was just wondering aloud because Njohn's Yamaha might actually have 1.1 HDMI enabled audio...I wasn't sure...but an 861 is a high enough model for that year! In which case he should be able to decode with the Sony and send out LPCM to the Yamaha?

cnh

[cheddar]

I thought the OP said his yammie was 1.3...

[cnh]

I thought the OP said his yammie was 1.3...

According to his manual that unit has 1.2a. Which should be fine? No? But he wants to replace the unit, 'upgrade' I suppose.

cnh

[cheddar]

That's what I got from him looking for a pre/pro. Maybe looking for something better for music listening.

[nooshinjohn]

That's what I got from him looking for a pre/pro. Maybe looking for something better for music listening.

Exactly... I thought my Yammi was 1.3HDMI but I stand corrected. I am happy with the Yamaha as a pre, but am concerned that the lack of depth I am getting from the Sig7 in two channel may be as a result of the synergy between the Sunfire and the Yammi may not be the best. Can anyone recommend a good match for the Sunfire? I love the amp, but have it listed on Agon because I dont like the two channel performance. If a better pre/pro will solve this I wil keep it in a heartbeat, otherwise I was considering a cinema 5/200 and either a set of silver7/9t's or cinema 2/300.

As an aside, this place sucks!;) were it not for you guys I would have been happily listening to my ****ty system with a fat wallet instead of happily hearing the glorious joys of audio with an empty wallet!
:p