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  1. #1

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    Default sorry for a lots of dumb questions

    Guys sorry for the list of dumb questions. I am too new to this world and been doing so may research online seem like I can't find my answers so I guess they best way is to ask. Really appreciate if any one willing to help me out.

    1, Since we have a AV receiver and it is a amp why we need sub amp? Such at there 140amp per channel already.

    2, If one plug the speaker to the sub amp let say if it can support 150w per channel and the sub amp is connecting to the receiver amp and it is 110w per channel is that mean technically you got 260w per channel?

    3, about the sub woofer, example if it said it has 100w and 200w peak and you connect your front speaker to the sub and the sub to the receiver how that work? I mean like the receive producing 110w to speaker so that means 220w to sub woofer and then pass through directly out?

    4, what is the Zone outlet in the receiver for? like some receiver has 7 channel and there Zone 1 and Zone 2 both has left and right.

    5, The last question I have here will be a electrical question. Let say your home panel can only support 20amp (normal house) and it is a dedicate circuit so at that out let you will have 2400watt and one connect the 1000w amp to it and within the same outlet one connect another 1000w sub amp then on the same out let one connect the 1000w sub woofer, but why it doesn't trip the circuit breaker?


    Again sorry for all those stupid long questions. But I am so lost.

  2. #2

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    We all started with no knowledge about audio components at some point. No need to apologize for asking civil questions to get your learn on.

    The subwoofer is a specialized speaker in a system that generally handles frequencies below say 80hz all the way down to even below the range of human hearing at 20hz. While the other speakers in a system are either specialized to handle frequencies above that range all the way up to the upper range of human hearing at 20000hz or are full range speakers that are designed to handle the lower frequencies as well. The amp requirements to drive these different frequencies are different, so it is more cost effective in many cases to just have a subwoofer amp and either a receiver or seperate amp for all the rest. But there are subwoofers without amps out there and you have to find an amp capable of handling the specialized load if you want to use them.

    You don't add any of these different amps together. You just use the right amp for the right application.

    Zones are for taking unused channels and using them for other sets of speakers, say a stereo pair in another room for example.

    And you rarely ever max out an amp. You can get a lot of volume out of a channel at only 10 watts. But I'm sure the electricians and electrical engineers out there can answer your last question in more detail.

  3. #3

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    thanks for the explain and understanding cheddar.

    When you mention the amp won't add up then why people want the exact same wattage sub amp like their AV receiver can provide 140w per channel already why would people want to buy a extra 3 channel 140w per channel sub amp for the front speakers?

  4. #4

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    The amps don't add up because you aren't physically connecting the amps together to add their power to each other. And amplification in most receivers is of very poor quality for driving the difficult loads a subwoofer has. They are usually designed to drive 5-7 channels of easy to drive speakers (8ohms). You shouldn't be using any extra channels to drive a subwoofer. The wattage is actually a very poor spec to judge an amplifier by as companies do not report the watts per channel in consistent and reliable ways. And it is completely unnecessary to have a powered sub match the watt ratings of your AVR. The sub is blended with the rest of your speakers when you run your AVR's speaker calibration.

    Not sure what you mean in your last sentence. People do not normally buy 'sub' amps to drive their fronts. If they are unsatisfied with their AVR's amplification, they add external amps designed to handle full range speakers, not specialized for subs.
    Last edited by cheddar; 04-15-2009 at 02:19 PM.

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    I also wonder about those per channel word. Let say if a speaker has 3 speakers so if a 150w/channel (spec said for example VM10) it will be about 50w per speaker then technically it should be more powerful than the (VM30) it is 225w/channel but it has 7 speakers so about 33w per speakers? Is that true?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheddar View Post
    Not sure what you mean in your last sentence. People do not normally buy 'sub' amps to drive their fronts. If they are unsatisfied with their AVR's amplification, they add external amps designed to handle full range speakers, not specialized for subs.
    The sub amp I am keep mentioning not saying the sub woofer amp I mean the extra amp for the front speaker and all the "sub amp" I was saying is just for the secondary amp. So I just call it a sub amp sorry for the confusing.

    Thanks so much for helping me out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr2sw21 View Post
    I also wonder about those per channel word. Let say if a speaker has 3 speakers so if a 150w/channel (spec said for example VM10) it will be about 50w per speaker then technically it should be more powerful than the (VM30) it is 225w/channel but it has 7 speakers so about 33w per speakers? Is that true?
    Each channel usually goes to a single speaker. So each speaker supposedly gets 150 watts in your first example and 225 watts in your second. But how close an amp can get to these published specs really depends on the quality of the amp. Again, most receivers do poorly in reaching these rated specs when all channels are used at the same time.
    Last edited by cheddar; 04-15-2009 at 02:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheddar View Post
    Again, most receivers do poorly in reaching these rated specs when all channels are used at the same time.
    SO that's why people but the secondary amp for each channel. So the power can be more reliable than the receiver. Now I understand. Well will people worry if their amp provide more power than the speaker can take?

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    Within reason, it doesn't matter if the amp is capable of putting out more watts than a speaker's published rating. A quality 500 watt/channel amp isn't really a danger to a polk speaker rated for 250 watts on its upper range. You usually worry about distorted power when an amp loses control of the signal it sends to the speaker. A 500 watt/channel amp is large and in control, so it sends out stable, clean power to your speaker. And like I said, speakers would rarely receive the maximum amount of watts per channel anyways under sane listening conditions.

    However, a poor quality 50 watt/channel amp that is overtaxed and loses control of the power can smoke your 250 watt speakers in a cruel second. So more clean power is much better than a poor quality amp.

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    I see, thanks so much for the information and knowledge.

    Sorry last question you mention clean power? is it drive by the receiver? Or you talking about the clean electrical power so if I get those monster outlet and say it filter the electrical current is my power cleaned already? Or you are talking about something different?
    Again thansk so much.

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    Clean power without distortion comes from the amp. This is different than the line noise, etc, that power centers 'clean'. The dirty, distorted power I'm talking about comes from an amp losing control of the power it is sending out, so instead of amplifying the 'music' signal, it sends out something else entirely, potentially blowing your speakers in the process.

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    ohhhhhhh I see I see. any good amp will you recommend? or let say about what price range I will start to have a decent range amp? Or in order to get clean power I have to buy a secondary amp for that?
    Last edited by mr2sw21; 04-15-2009 at 03:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr2sw21 View Post
    ohhhhhhh I see I see. any good amp will you recommend? or let say about what price range I will start to have a decent range amp?
    You should match a system together so everything works together well. While external amplification often helps, it may be unnecessary depending on what speakers you are trying to drive and what you like to listen to (home theater vs. music, for instance). If you start a list of components you have or are planning to buy, people can chime in with their recommendations. But you might really want to just try searching the forum, as the topic of amps has been covered many times before. Seperate amps from companies like emotiva and outlaw start below $1000. And of course, you can spend much, much more. But you really need to start doing some research and listening to various speakers and set-ups to find out what you really want. It will save you a lot of headache later rather than a blind buy of things people on this forum recommend. Take some time and start listening to different gear.

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    thank you so much

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    No Problem. Welcome to the club, BTW.

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    In light of some of the other threads going on here, thank you both for a nice, informative and respectful exchange.

    Gordon
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  17. #17

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    Mr21: check out shop onkyo.com (join for discounts) and emotiva.com for fairly priced nice components. If you want to go used, check out audiogon.com. Good luck....
    [

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by vonnie123 View Post
    Mr21: check out shop onkyo.com (join for discounts) and emotiva.com for fairly priced nice components. If you want to go used, check out audiogon.com. Good luck....
    Thanks for the info but I am more interested to know about what price range I can get a decent amp. I really want to buy a lowest model that I can afford but it still can have nice sound and clean power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr2sw21 View Post
    Thanks for the info but I am more interested to know about what price range I can get a decent amp. I really want to buy a lowest model that I can afford but it still can have nice sound and clean power.
    Your question is where things can get complicated very quickly. Pretty much all of us here compromise between what any one of us would define "decent"/"great"/"uber" and price. Moreover, there have been many an arguemnt on what specifically what defines "decent," using the afore terms for grades of "decent". At the end of the day, though, it comes down to the price any one of us willing or able to spend, while trying to get the most bang for the buck ... we all have our budgets.

    What is your budget? With that known, you will get some great advice from here that generally conforms to it.

  20. #20

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    I am thinking to spend 2000. I don't need speakers anymore or sub woofers since I just got them they are VM serious (2 MV30 front, 3 VM20, 2 VM 10). the sub is PSW110. What should I get? At some point I was planning to get the Yamaha Z7 but seem like not much people use that is it worth to try? I don't know where I can listen to it. SO all I can do is trail and error.
    Last edited by mr2sw21; 04-17-2009 at 02:07 PM. Reason: add more info

  21. #21

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    If you're going to consider 2000 as a budget I would highly recommend that you listen to the New Pioneer Elite ICE-Power amp AVRS, especially the SC-07! A lot of people here like them. I've heard them myself, good power, clean sound, cutting edge tech and DACs, etc.

    cnh

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    If you're going to consider 2000 as a budget I would highly recommend that you listen to the New Pioneer Elite ICE-Power amp AVRS, especially the SC-07! A lot of people here like them. I've heard them myself, good power, clean sound, cutting edge tech and DACs, etc.

    cnh
    I will go and hear it when I have a chance today but I seen a site here the link

    http://www.customsoundco.com/Product...Product_ID=148

    the price is really good only 12xx original price is 2500 (marked up of course) however, anyone bought it form them before? Thanks for your advise though.

  23. #23

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    I haven't, but have bought first time from many e-tailers since the beginning of the Internet (so far back that credit card info had to be sent via e-mail of all things!). Today, getting a feel for how reputable a business is a lot easier. Search their name and see if you can find praise or dirt. It'll show up if they are doing much on line business.

    Remember to factor in if sales tax and/or shipping is charged in your final price! Something else. I don't know about Pioneer's policies, but some mfgrs will only honor their warranties if the device was sold through an authorized reseller. Retailers who are not authorized generally do not mention this fact, so you have to be sure on your end of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    If you're going to consider 2000 as a budget I would highly recommend that you listen to the New Pioneer Elite ICE-Power amp AVRS, especially the SC-07! A lot of people here like them. I've heard them myself, good power, clean sound, cutting edge tech and DACs, etc.

    cnh
    I have listened to th sc-07 as well, fantastic receiver, Pioneer elite series are definantly worth giving a good listening to. My budget limited me to the 92 elite, simmilar to the sc-05. Got it on e-bay, brand new for 730.00 including shipping. Registered it with pio and everything seems legit. Btw,Cnh, thanks for the nice, warm welcome last week
    jr

  25. #25

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    Just listened to SC-07 not bad at all. But I also listened to RX-Z7 feel like a bit better. They are about the same price now I don't know which one I should go for.

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