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  1. #1

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    Default Martin Logans electrostatic speakers

    I checked out a pair of martin logan electrostatics speakers yesterday..
    Boy were they nice , a complete different sound all in it's own. They were flat ,neuteral and amazing-kinda crispy--bottom end was visceral.."BUT"
    this might just be in my mind but i felt something was missing..I can't pin point it...When i came home --i fired up ol' Bessy and kicked in the sub turned it up and sat in the hot spot for about 3 minutes-Norman Brown's just chillin' was cranking and i became quite ecstatic and started laughing..The old re-assurance kicked in.."I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT I LIKE MY POLKS BETTER THAN THE ELECTROSTATICS"
    Dammit i do !!!
    Am I bonkers or am i correct? Or is it like beer where you just have to assume a certain taste??
    System #2
    Yamaha cdc-755,(20 bit DAC )
    Yamaha KX W382 cassette deck,
    ADCOM GFA-545-II.ampfilier,,
    ADCOM GFP-450 Preamp ,,BBE audio Restoration System (ARS)--Monster--M850I Innerconects and Monster 14 gauge speaker cable and the Fabulous POLK RT-7's with a Velodyne 12/15 subwoofer system ....she rocks.........
    .............................
    System #1:
    Meridian 508-24 cd.(20 bit DAC)
    Adcom -Gfp 750 preamp,
    Bryston 14b-sst amplifier,
    Martin Logan Prodigy Electrostatc speakers.and Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II innerconnects (rca) with Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker cable.
    ............................. "Jazz is democracy in music".
    .............................

  2. #2

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    I've listened to the Martin Logan on several occasions and you're right, they are flat sounding. Don't get me wrong....provided I had the money, I'd get them on the wow factor alone. I like the look......
    .
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
    .
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  3. #3

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    bonkers you may be but nevertheless Martin Logan and Polk audio are in 2 different classes.
    They don't compare
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  4. #4

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    a speaker is a speaker, it makes sound - that sound is comparable
    Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
    I promised myself
    No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
    Damn you all! - ATC

  5. #5
    Stronzo
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    Hate to do this, but I agree with MX on this one.
    Last edited by Zero; 02-22-2003 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #6

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    Misunderstood what I said,yes of course you can compare if you like but out of Polk's class.

    Just different classes my friends.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  7. #7
    Stronzo
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    I suppose the real question becomes - what determines class? Is it the reputation of the name? The price-tag of the item? The quality of componenents?

    Hell - Im willing to even compare Best Buys JBL studio 34's against B&W Dm603's any day - Different "class" all-together, yet quite comparable in terms of quality sound.

  8. #8

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    I suppose the real question becomes - what determines class?

    Price is a big one here.Comparing speaker with similar price points is a fair compare.One extreme or the other is OUT OF CLASS.

    There are speakers in classes.
    low end would be Cerwin vega,JBL,KLH,Sony,pioneer.Basically what Best buy carries currently.
    Midline is a really big class of speakers.Polk,most B&W except cdm and Natulis,PSB,Energy,Monitor Audio,Mirage,Klipsch,Warfdale,Bose,Def Tech,RBH,your getting the Idea.
    High end,this should be easy for everone.B&W,Martin Logan,Thiel,Vandertsien,Dynaudio,Wilson Audio,Egglestone,Dunlavy,ETC.

    When comparing speakers,I feel comparing them with in there respected classes makes for a fair compare.When you go outside of there classesw, just about everytime they cannot compete with the higher end speakers.And it shouldn't.Alot of reviewers will write bull like"these speakers can compete with speakers costing twice as much".How many times have you read this?????Do the test.High end spealkers aren't there because they cost alot.you get alot.Martin Logan and Polk audio don't compare in my opnion.The Lsi series is a fantastic line.But Martin Logan they are not.
    Thats my opnion and I'm sicking by it.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  9. #9

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    The Martin Logans are beautiful but how was the sound...I have heard several electrostatic speakers and they all had a mean sweet spot... but that has been several years, has Martin improved on this at all, this new line is an awsome looking speaker.
    Peace, Stuff
    Your system is only as good as your weakest component...!

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  10. #10

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    If you disagree with that last statement,do this test.
    Flagship vs flagship

    Martin Logan Prodigys Vs Lsi25's.(Dare I say statements at 70 grand?)
    12 grand vs 3 grand

    No compare here

    Go down one
    Lsi15's vs Odyessys or even ascents.no way man
    Last edited by mantis; 02-22-2003 at 07:09 PM.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  11. #11

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    It's all about the law of diminishing returns. Do the 12 grand Prodigys sound 4 TIMES better than the Lsi 25 (or even Lsi15)? Probably not. It's all about justification. If you have deep pockets and can convince yourself (or be convinced) that these speakers are worth buying, that's the real battle. Of course, those big beautiful electro's make much more of a statement than those little Polks. Especially in the well-to-do crowd.

    Stubby

  12. #12
    Stronzo
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    Nauts vs Polk LSi's. Nauts were clearly superior, but not worth the price tag- at all. In fact,I view the nautilus series much like Bose... cut the price tag in half and they are justified.........

    *puts on the flak jacket*

  13. #13

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    How would you rate Paradigm Studio 100's......would they fit in between the upper middle and lower upper end?

  14. #14

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    Lower mid upper end.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.

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    The Logan's produce killer realistic imaging and they are everything described by Gary. The worst thing about the electrostatics is once you move out of the sweet spot the entire sound field collapses. This is where the cone drivers make the grade. They arenít as spatially accurate but definitely more consistent in their presentation throughout the room. The only way the Loganís win out over this is with a surround setup where channel separation is not a factor. The quality Gary was missing with the Loganís was the weight and impact of pushed air. Its one thing to vibrate the air and itís another to push it. The Logan's definitely have the cool factor though.
    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it."

  16. #16

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    Nauts vs Polk LSi's. Nauts were clearly superior, but not worth the price tag- at all. In fact,I view the nautilus series much like Bose... cut the price tag in half and they are justified.....
    *puts on the flak jacket*
    Man I don't even know what your saying here.B&W not worth the asking price???Name one speaker cheaper then them that can perform better?Nautilus series speakers are one of the best in the world.Not many companies can compare.Lsi vs nautilus???Now thats a battle I would have to experience.But from owning Lsi and working with Nautilus,there out of there league here.

    stubby,
    have you ever sat infront of Prodigy's?with Krell or audio research driving them?Lsi can't even dream of reproducing sound anywhere close to this caliber.Yes the Lsi's are great speakers,but they are no Martin Logan by anyones stretch of the imagination....

    Thats like saying yeah a ford Taurus is everything the B&W 540i is.Yeah the ford can get you to the store so why spend the extra money on the B&W?Here's a better one.My Xterra is just as good as a Humer H20,it's 4 x 4 and I don't think the Hummer is worth the extra money when I can get the same quality at less then half the price.The Hummer isn't 2x's as good.........whatever.

    Bottom line here is high end is high end.Mid line is mid line.Afford what you can and be happy with it.Dream if you must.
    Last edited by mantis; 02-23-2003 at 07:56 AM.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  17. #17

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    Default

    i like my rt-7 better, dont like the soundstage of the martin logons
    the top end is cleaner than the 7 only. my rt-7 with the 2 psw-650 as mains, haves better bottem end and deeper soundstage, if i had the lsi-9 it probably would have a better top to.

    mantis, i like the b&w alot, price wise the lsi-line would be a better choice for me i think they are real close to sound qulity
    price wise the lsi the winner
    Last edited by joe logston; 02-23-2003 at 08:09 AM.
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.

  18. #18
    Stronzo
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    Dan,

    Lsi-9 vs Naut 805. Do it. Shall prove interesting. Remember, they both have to be hooked up on the same exact equipment, same room. You may be suprised.

    No, we are not speaking of flagship versus flagship. Just a bookshelf versus a bookshelf. The finese award may go to the Naut - but versitility - nah.

    And yes, I believe they are over-priced. Or perhaps the more proper word would be, over-hyped. Still, I dont feel that even the 802's are 7x (which is about how much more your paying in price) better than the Lsi.

    The B&W Naut series is good stuff, by all means, just not worth the asking price. Though, they are pretty....

  19. #19

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    Thats fine.Your opnion is your own.

    Asking price is just what it is.B&W asks high prices and you get high quality.
    Same with Lsi they are high quality and you pay high prices for Polk that is.

    Value ratio to ones personal income is where I believe this gets looked at differently.As I know alot of B&W owners, none of them feel they paid 2 much.
    As a Lsi owner,I don't feel I paid to much.

    That gets me thinking......I've been upgrading this and that,and nothing I own I feel I paid 2 much.Retail prices are what they are.
    Some like Troy feel it's better for him to buy things used,save a buck and he's happy.I perfer new so I have to except New prices.

    You know I will say ALL things are overpriced.I don't like to spend money.It's so hard to come by.But when you look at things in IT"S respected price class,then this is where I feel Value needs to be addressed.

    Lsi9 bookshelf speakers are over a grand retail.N805's are 2 grand.Not exactly twice the cost.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  20. #20
    Stronzo
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    Dan,

    Usually income subconciously influences peoples opinion of value. If I had millions upon millions of dollars coming in, spending 20k on an audio system would not even make me quiver. However, if I was making 600 dollars a month, then even a three-thousand dollar complete system is enough to make me blush.

    I try to put the price-tag aside and look at the items for what they are. Be it a pair of 12k Revel Studios or a twenty-dollar pair of KLH speakers. To me, its sound first, price second. After which point I begin to determine such factors such as value.

    Naturally, if you thoroughly enjoy what you purchased with your hard earned money - you will believe its money well-spent. If satisfaction is not reached then naturally - one is quick to critisize.

    These days - I notice an abundance of affordable speakers that CAN compare to the high end gear. Key word here, is "compare". Though in two different financial classes, the sound is along the same equal liberiam.

    As for the 805's. For their sound, I believe $1500.00 retail would be just. Though superior to the Lsi-9's, I would not go so far to say they are twice the product. Thats just me.

  21. #21

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    I wish money was easier to come by.........I would be listening to my new 2ch audio system by now.......However, i will have to dish out some money that would have gone to the stereo to pay for a new set of tires.....I have strech the usage for many years and the final straw came when I notice there was a big nail head sticking out of my balding front tires.......


    But my dreams of owning a super 2ch system will sureiy come but I will have to be more patient and wait it out.....first things first!!!!! boo! hoo!


    dc.

  22. #22

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    Just because something is painted gold, dosnt make it gold.
    Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
    I promised myself
    No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
    Damn you all! - ATC

  23. #23

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    Well it would depend on WHICH ML's you are comparing too. The Aeon's don't impress me all that much, I think the Maggie 1.6's are superior in all respects.

    Nor can you judge a companies total line based on it's flagship models. Take JMLab for example, the make the Utopia line and the Chorus line, I'd say that that Polk compares quite well with the Chorus line. Same with B&W.

    The law of diminishing returns kicks in exponentially the higher you go in the audio chain, that's a fact and it's true, I think it's silly to pay brand new prices for speakers when you can pick them up used for a fraction of the cost. New car smell does nothing for me.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

  24. #24

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    Originally posted by RuSsMaN
    Lower mid upper end.
    I disagree...more like high mid lower upper end...JMO.
    "Just because youíre offended doesnít mean youíre right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson

  25. #25

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    Kinda like compairing a DODGE stealth-60,000 dollars to a MITSUBISHI 3000--24,000 dollars---The DODGE has a more esoteric name so it's more expensive "BUT" ironically they are both the same car --and let us not forget the the exellent TOTUM speakers..They are one of the best speakers out there "BUT the dynaudio evidence is 80,000 dollars but how many people know that the TOTUM has the same dynaudio drivers.Yes they do---2 to 3,000 dollars or 80,000 dollars goes to show how people are totally faked out by boutique brands with an esoteric name...
    System #2
    Yamaha cdc-755,(20 bit DAC )
    Yamaha KX W382 cassette deck,
    ADCOM GFA-545-II.ampfilier,,
    ADCOM GFP-450 Preamp ,,BBE audio Restoration System (ARS)--Monster--M850I Innerconects and Monster 14 gauge speaker cable and the Fabulous POLK RT-7's with a Velodyne 12/15 subwoofer system ....she rocks.........
    .............................
    System #1:
    Meridian 508-24 cd.(20 bit DAC)
    Adcom -Gfp 750 preamp,
    Bryston 14b-sst amplifier,
    Martin Logan Prodigy Electrostatc speakers.and Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II innerconnects (rca) with Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker cable.
    ............................. "Jazz is democracy in music".
    .............................

  26. #26

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    Originally posted by Gary Robertson
    Kinda like compairing a DODGE stealth-60,000 dollars to a MITSUBISHI 3000--24,000 dollars---The DODGE has a more esoteric name so it's more expensive "BUT" ironically they are both the same car --and let us not forget the the exellent TOTUM speakers..They are one of the best speakers out there "BUT the dynaudio evidence is 80,000 dollars but how many people know that the TOTUM has the same dynaudio drivers.Yes they do---2 to 3,000 dollars or 80,000 dollars goes to show how people are totally faked out by boutique brands with an esoteric name...
    that was the most WAY OFF BASE post I have ever read........I'm shocked.
    Where can you find a Dodge Stealth brand new for 60k???and a Mitsubishi 3000gt for 24k????

    OK Ok I see where your going with the Totem speakers,yes SOME of there speakers use dynaudio drivers, but not all of them.
    You cannot compare anything Totem makes to the awesome Evidence Temptations.......no compare.
    boutique brands????dude get a grip.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  27. #27

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    Kinda like compairing a DODGE stealth-60,000 dollars to a MITSUBISHI 3000--24,000 dollars---The DODGE has a more esoteric name so it's more expensive "BUT" ironically they are both the same car
    Gary, I think you may be getting your vehicles mixed up. the Dodge Stealth and the Mitsubishi 3000GT WERE basically the same car but if anything the 3000GT was a little more pricey than the Dodge. Both sold new for under $30,000. They quit making the Stealth in 1996 and 1999 was the last year for the 3000GT.

    You may be trying to compare the Stealth/3000GT with the Viper. Yes the Vipers did cost in the $60,000 to $100,000 range. However, there is ABSOLUTELY NO SIMILARITY between the Stealth/3000GT and the Vipers. One is a Japanese made car with V6 Turbo power (top models) pushing 320-330 BHP while the Viper is an American made car with a normally aspirated V10 at close to 500 BHP. Totally different.

    I understand what you are trying to say but a better analogy might be the VW Passat GLX and the Audi A6. Basically the same car but the Audi will go for $10,000 more. Better ameneties and upgrade finish on the Audi...but the basics are about the same. The Audi name is part of the higher price.
    "Just because youíre offended doesnít mean youíre right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson

  28. #28

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    forget the effin mits, give me the effin viper man! HOLY CRAP!
    Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
    I promised myself
    No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
    Damn you all! - ATC

  29. #29

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    Default Re: Martin Logans electrostatic speakers

    Originally posted by Gary Robertson
    i fired up ol' Bessy and kicked in the sub turned it up ...
    Did the MLs have a sub hooked up? They have a totally different sound than conventional speakers, as do horns. What they do, they do quite well, for what they do while they're doing it. On the other hand they don't necessarily do everything as well as they do some things. No speaker ever has or ever will.

    They're basically an acquired taste that is best suited for music that makes that particular taste that much more available.

    Gentlemen, gentlemen. I honestly think they would fall into the mid-fi of the higher-end in the upper to middle class category.

    Then again I thought B&W couldn't do Rock&Roll.
    Make it Funky! :)

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    Then again I thought B&W couldn't do Rock&Roll
    You are correct, I'd almost forgot about that.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

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