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  1. #1

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    Default Questions about a PREOUT on a receiver.....

    I have the onkyo 606 and love it but there isnt any preouts....

    The nearest thing I find would be the yamaha 663 which has preouts....

    How much does an addition amp cost (low budget) and how much of a difference can you actually hear with the added power...this would all be for movies and tv...

    also off topic the onkyo has 4 hdmi...yammy has 2....I need 3 of them...would I have to buy a switch?

    any other info would be great. cause I know NOTHING about adding an additional amp

  2. #2

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    I have a Harman Kardon receiver with pre-outs. I used the receiver alone for a while, then I purchased a Rotel RB985 MkII for around $400. The Rotel is leagues better than any receiver, especially anything in the HK, Yamaha, and Onkyo line (not to knock those, because those are some of the best receivers).

    So my answer to your question is, yes, absolutely, adding an amp will give you an amazing difference.

    About your HDMI situation, I ended up purchasing an HDMI switcher box (3in, 1out) from Ebay for around $25, so that solves your dilemna about which receiver to get, especially if there's a noticeable price difference in the two you mentioned.

    Here's another question for you, though. Are you going to be going for Dolby True HD/DTS HD? If so, you want to check a couple of things--first, does the receiver decode those, or does the Blu-Ray player decode and offer analogue outs. If you are going to let the Blu-Ray decode and use its analog outs, then the receiver must have a 7.1 analog input.
    The next thing to check is, if you are going with Dolby True-HD/DTS HD, well this isn't really something to check but something to think about...The Rotel I mentioned is well worth the money, won awards and all that; but it offers 5 channels, not 7. Not many amps for anywhere near $400 do offer 7 channels, so you will need to use 2 of the channels from your receiver for the extra two channels.

    This is easily done, and is not at all a problem (you'll probably want to use the surround back L and R from the receiver)---All this surround stuff is true even if you are going to run a 7.1 Dolby Digital ES or DTS ES system as well.

    If all that sounds confusing, don't worry it's not once you start hooking stuff up.

    The short summary to a long answer is--yes, the amp is worth it, and yes, buy the switcher box if the Yamaha is the receiver you want. I hope this helps!

  3. #3

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    I'm no audio genius, nut it would depend on how much power your speakers need to perform well. What kind of speakers do you have?
    Denon 1909, want to upgrade for pre outs
    Fronts-polk RTi A5
    center-polk CSi A4
    Sides Polk FXi A6
    rears- polk rm8's
    sub-SVS pb-13 ultra
    Blue ray-ps3
    Panasonic plasma 50 inch
    Buttkicker(don't use or need it anymore since getting the Ultra)

  4. #4

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    In my opinion, there is no point in adding an external amp to drive the main speakers unless (a) your speakers need the additional wattage to sound their best and (b) the external amp provides sufficient extra power.

    For example, if your main speakers have a manufacturer recommended max wattage of 120w @ 8ohms and your avr is putting out an actaul 100w x 5 or 7 @ 8ohms, then adding an amp with say 150 x 2 @ 8ohms might not do much. On the other hand, if your speakers are rated at 150w @ 8ohms, adding a 200w x 2 @ 8ohms amp will make a difference. How much of a difference depends on the speakers and the amp. Driving Polk floorstanders with a 250w Rotel, NAD or Parasound amp will make a significant difference over the Onk 606.

    My experience has been that good speakers like to be driven at 30% over manufacurer's recommended wattage.

    Mike
    ____________________________________________
    Home Theater 32"LG LCD; Comcast; 7.1 Onkyo 805; Fronts: Polk M50s; Center: Polk CS2; Sides: Polk M40s; Rear: B&W LM1s; Subs: (2) Sony 12" x 100w; Samsung 1500BDP; Toshiba A-2 HD-DVDP.
    PC stereo: Viper custom PC: Windows XP; ASIO4ALL; JRiver Jukebox> Pop Pulse USB to S/PDIF conv> Monarchy DIP > Musiland MD10 DAC > Parasound 2100 pre> Aragon 4004 MKII amp> Dali Ikon6 towers; Sunfire True Sub; PSA Duet, Ultimate outlet and Noise Harvestors.

  5. #5

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    I have rti8 for the fronts
    csi3 center (gonna get the csi5 soon)
    fxia4 rears....

    does the external amp "take over" the power over the onkyo....meaning the onkyp puts out 90...and the external puts out 150...does that mean I will have 240 watts or just the 150.....??


    I will probably always just have 5.1 I dont plan on doing a 7.1 and the room, its in wont allow it anyways...

    any other questions?

  6. #6

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    An external amp makes a tremendous difference regardless of whether or not your AVR has enough power to drive them or not. Even if an AVR's spec sheet states that is has enough power, it is limited by its overall input wattage as well as how many channels you are driving at once. External amps generally have much more availab le power to provide speakers, especially when soundtracks suddenly get loud.

    If you add a power amp, the receiver's wattage is not added to the power amp's wattage. The power amp replaces the receiver in the amp department and your receiver simply processes the sound.


    I would absolutely recommend a power amp if you can afford it!
    __________________________________________________ __________
    Home Theater: polkaudio Modded SDA SRS 2.3TL's, LSiM706c, 4 X TC265i Rears, SVS PB12 Plus/2
    Pioneer Elite SC-67, Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400, Oppo BDP-83[/SIZE]

  7. #7

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    Just to summarize, with an Rti system power amps will give you better sound, as Mike says above those speakers can take a lot more power than the 90 Watts or less the 606 puts out. Rotels are nice amps for sure, and dpowell has explained what you need to know about what a power amp really does, how it works with your receiver.

    Let us add that buying 'used' either from www.audiogon.com or from this very site is a good idea....will save you a ton of money...

    cnh

  8. #8

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    Ok cool....so if the power of the amp doesnt really matter and I need id say at least 2 HDMI inputs what receiver would u recommend?

    also I dont know what to look for on an external amp...I want something to get the job done but doesnt cost alot cause my wife wont allow it :)

    links would be great.

    thanks
    Fronts- RTi8
    Center- CSi5
    Rears- FXiA4
    Sub- Velodyne 12"
    Onkyo TX-SR806
    Ps3
    Xbox 360
    65" DLP 1080P Toshiba TV

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polkie918 View Post
    I have the onkyo 606 and love it but there isnt any preouts. The nearest thing I find would be the yamaha 663 which has preouts. How much does an addition amp cost (low budget) and how much of a difference can you actually hear with the added power...this would all be for movies and tv. also off topic the onkyo has 4 hdmi...yammy has 2....I need 3 of them...would I have to buy a switch? any other info would be great. cause I know NOTHING about adding an additional amp
    Just opinions. IF you do get a new receiver for use with an external amp, why mess around with a receiver that doesn't have the HDMI inputs you need? I can't see going to the trouble & expense to "upgrade" and then tack on a $30 box to cover the shortcomings of the upgrade.

    As for whether an external amp will be noticeable, you probably have enough power for the speakers you have. Will an amp (or more powerful receiver) sound better - probably but it may not be a night & day thing. I can remember the 606's real power with 5 channels driven but since it's 90 into 2-channels, my guess is it's around 60 or so into 5-channels. You could probably pick up a used 5-channel Carver / Adcom for around $400 + the new receiver (or used). Another choice might be to pick up a new receiver with more power like the Pioneer Elite SC05 or 07 which would double your real power immediately without an external amp plus give you the pre-outs for future expansion. A lot of choices for sure.
    Sony 60'' SXRD 1080p
    Amp = Carver AV-705THX 5-Channel
    Processor = NAD T747
    Panasonic BD35 Blu-Ray
    Main = SDA-1C Studio with RD0s, spikes, XO rebuild, rings, I/C upgrade
    Center=Polk CS10, Surround = Athena Dipoles, Sub= Boston 12HO
    Music/Video Streaming = Netgear NEO550
    TT = Audio Technica

  10. #10

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    You should listen to a few receivers to see what you like. But if you like your Onkyo then the Harman Kardon AVR 254 or the Onkyo 706 receiver will do you. Either one will give you at least 3 HDMI ins/and one out. The Onkyo an extra.

    External amps, you want something that can do 200 watts/channel into 8 ohms. You don't have to power all your channels from the power amp. Could get away with a 3 channel amp and just do the three front channels, letting the receiver power the surrounds. I know some people like to amplify everything..but those rear channels do not carry most of the soundtrack info...that's up front..and for the Sub. Good amps can be found at reasonable cost....Rotel, Adcom, Parasound, (a number of members like Emotiva), (there was an Acurus 3/channel for sale on this site?) and there are a lot more than these.

    cnh

  11. #11
    ken.paduch
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    Default How do you like the HK240?

    Marty,

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty913 View Post
    Just opinions. IF you do get a new receiver for use with an external amp, why mess around with a receiver that doesn't have the HDMI inputs you need? I can't see going to the trouble & expense to "upgrade" and then tack on a $30 box to cover the shortcomings of the upgrade.

    As for whether an external amp will be noticeable, you probably have enough power for the speakers you have. Will an amp (or more powerful receiver) sound better - probably but it may not be a night & day thing. I can remember the 606's real power with 5 channels driven but since it's 90 into 2-channels, my guess is it's around 60 or so into 5-channels. You could probably pick up a used 5-channel Carver / Adcom for around $400 + the new receiver (or used). Another choice might be to pick up a new receiver with more power like the Pioneer Elite SC05 or 07 which would double your real power immediately without an external amp plus give you the pre-outs for future expansion. A lot of choices for sure.
    I noticed you have an HK240. I am considering that model and was wondering how it performed without the additional amp.

    kp
    Last edited by ken.paduch; 05-02-2009 at 08:50 PM. Reason: address

  12. #12

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    I used a Sony ES series AVR prior to getting an external amp. I THOUGHT it sounded great and it had plenty of power to drive my speakers. My Adcom opened up a whole new world. The difference was very noticeable and was night and day. To get a 5 X 200wpc amp costs a decent amount of money. If budget is an issue, you may need to start with a 5 X 125wpc or maybe a 5 X 150wpc. Mine's 150wpc and was worth every penny....

    Buy used and if you don't like what you hear, you can usually sell and get most of your investment back. Good luck on your hunt!
    __________________________________________________ __________
    Home Theater: polkaudio Modded SDA SRS 2.3TL's, LSiM706c, 4 X TC265i Rears, SVS PB12 Plus/2
    Pioneer Elite SC-67, Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400, Oppo BDP-83[/SIZE]

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