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  1. #1

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    Default How Efficient Are Your 2 Channel Speakers?

    Hi!

    I am interested in finding out what's your favorite 2 channel speakers running in your stereo rig.

    Do you use Tube Gears (Tube CDP, Tube Pre or Tube Amp or all or any combination) and do you hear a slight hiss from the speakers at a really close up.

    Thanks for sharing your experiences!

    James
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  2. #2

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    I don't have a lot of experience with different speakers, but I'm running LSi15's and am pretty happy with them. With my current gear it is dead silent even with my ear right up to the tweeter.
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH

  3. #3

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    Right now Monitor 5B's with peerless tweets and upgraded crossovers. Efficiency is 91db. Ran with a Single Ended Tube amp with about 5-7wpc... Its dead quite.






    Nick

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    I'm running a SS 205 watt amp into 92dB/1watt speakers. With the volume maxed, I can hear a faint hiss when my ear is right at the tweeter.

    Source: Squeezebox Touch/CIA Power Supply
    DAC: Benchmark DAC/PRE
    Linestage: Placette RVC Passive
    Power Amp: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Speakers: Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 Monitor
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12-NSD

  5. #5

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    It depends on the genre of music I am listening too, as well as what speakers I am running at the time. Everything affects everything as MM says. To answer your question? Anywhere between 1.6 ohms to 8 [not nominally].
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction". - Kenneth Swauger

  6. #6

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    My LSi-9's are rated 88db sensitivity...and I don't need no stinking tubes!
    Silence is golden!
    THE MAN-CAVE 5.1 CHANNEL A/V RIG
    Sony KDS-60A3000
    a/d/s/ HT-400LCR (3)
    a/d/s/ HT-300 (2)
    Velodyne DLS-4000R (2)
    Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi
    Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai
    Sony BDP-S300
    Sony SLV-779HF
    DirecTV HD sat. receiver

    MAN-CAVE 2-CHANNEL RIG (shares sources with a/v system)
    Adcom GFA-5500
    Bose 901 Series VI
    NAD C-165BEE
    Slim Devices Squeezebox Classic
    TEAC CD-RW890
    Technics SL-BD20D w/ Audio-Technica P34
    Akai HX-A3X

  7. #7

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    Nothing but brute force sent to the bookies. Nothing but dead silence between tracks, even if I could stick my head into the voice coils.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    Hi!

    I am interested in finding out what's your favorite 2 channel speakers running in your stereo rig.

    Do you use Tube Gears (Tube CDP, Tube Pre or Tube Amp or all or any combination) and do you hear a slight hiss from the speakers at a really close up.

    Thanks for sharing your experiences!

    James
    Sorry, Mega. 5Jr, Moni 5 or Moni 7's.

  9. #9

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    1C's,, tubed pre and power.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    1C's,, tubed pre and power.
    Fook you George.;)

  11. #11

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    Why aren't you at Jerry's?

  12. #12

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    Unsure of the agenda-plan on going over Sat,,are you there?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    Unsure of the agenda-plan on going over Sat,,are you there?
    Nope. Hadda work more than I wished today. bummer.

  14. #14

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    Rig 1. 94db, all SS, no hiss, line conditioner/UPS
    Rig 2. 85db, tube integrated, no hiss, line conditioner
    Rig 3. 91db, tube integrated, hiss, no line conditioning

    See the trend.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  15. #15

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    Altec Valencias in the living room. 16 ohm; ca. 100 dB per (watt? 2.83 VAC? who knows?).
    A better answer is probably the old Rolls-Royce response to questions about engine horsepower: "Adequate".
    all the best,
    mrh

  16. #16

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    1C's SS power and pre very slight hiss with out power cond. 88dB; RDO's, Sonicaps, Mills

    dead quiet with power cond. no more slight ground loop hum either.

    5B's toob integrated no power cond. very slight hiss have to put my ear to the tweeter and has to be dead quiet in the room to hear. 89dB

    5B's have RDO's Solen, Mills
    Last edited by heiney9; 05-09-2009 at 09:34 AM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  17. #17

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    Are the 5B's 89db? I thought they were 91db. Maybe thats the JR's I'm thinking of..





    Nick

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    I got tubes everywhere. My speakers are 94db, or somewhere around there, 4ohms. Using 90 WPC tube amp. And I have a fooken loud hum... tried everything under the sun to no avail. Dealer says will fix for $150.

  19. #19

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    PSB Synchrony One Towers. From their web-page:
    Anechoic Chamber 88 dB
    Typical Listening Room 90 dB
    Nominal 4 Ohms
    Minimum 4 Ohmns

    Powered by 2 Cambridge-Audio 840W in mono mode; 800w at 4 ohm

    Dead quiet. Loving every second.

  20. #20

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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolas812 View Post
    Are the 5B's 89db? I thought they were 91db. Maybe thats the JR's I'm thinking of..





    Nick
    It depends on which Polk manual you read.......I guess. Mine are early 5B's with fuses the manual says 6 ohm and 90dB. Another owner's manual states 4 ohms and 91dB. So yes your close, but then so am I :)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  22. #22

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    Hilarious.

    I also thought they were 8ohms. Wow. The more I learn about them the more I think they are wrong for my setup. I have a SET amp with 8ohm taps only and about 5wpc. I don't think there sensitivity or impedance are a good match..


    Can't wait to get my Frugal Horns here. SolidSqual and I are going to go get them on the 20th. I think they'll be better suited for my amp being a single driver speaker with an 8ohm load and a 95db sensitivity rating. I have high hopes for them anyway. We shall see....







    Nick

  23. #23

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    LINN AV5140s
    90dB
    4ohms
    Linn AV5140 fronts
    Linn AV5120 Center
    Linn AV5140 Rears
    M&K MX-70 Sub for Music
    Odyssey Mono-Blocs
    SVS Ultra-13 Gloss Black:D

  24. #24
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    SRS 4.1TLs at 91db with 16wpc tubes; plenty of power. Although, every once and a while I hook up the 450wpc Carver. :D

  25. #25

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    I think you are mixing sensitivity with efficiency they are not the same thing.

    Tubes Rule...No hiss.

    RT1
    REEL TIME THEATRE
    Onkyo-TX-NR5007
    B&K 7270 amplifier
    Polk SWA-500 Subwoofer amplifier
    OppO BDP-83
    Pioneer Elite 50"
    Polk LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx
    Subs-Twin Polk CSW200
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    Sound Lab Millenium ELS
    BillyBags Rack
    MIT S1/3 cables
    Shunyata/PS Audio/Virtual Dynamics Power Cords


    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    thats awfully high for an efficiency rating
    setup
    Panasonic 46pz85
    Polk RTi A9's
    Polk CSi A6
    FXi A6's
    Energy s12.3 sub
    Denon 3808ci
    Pioneer elite dv-79
    Monster 1850
    Denon dp500m w/ grado green
    PS3,XBOX 360, NES

  27. #27

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    well, not really... but some of the later Klipsch products' sensivity claims stretch credibility.
    I cannot really say for that particular speaker system if it's verity or balderdash.
    The "Heritage" series Klipsch Cornwall was 100 dB/2.83 VAC/1 m (that one I can vouch for, as a former owner).

    A Lowther twincone fullrange driver like the PM-6 is 104 dB/2.83 VAC/1 m

    2.83 V is 1 Watt into 8 ohms.


    Some of the (e.g.) JBL pro sound drivers have sensitivites of 107 dB/2.83 VAC/1 m
    They are very costly.

    You need that kind of sensitivity if you're filling a stadium or using, say, Bob Danielak's "DC Darling" amplifier (single ended 1626 for about 750 mW per channel) in your living room.

    http://www.geocities.com/bobdanielak/darling.html
    http://www.enjoythemusic.com/bostonbash99/
    Last edited by mhardy6647; 05-12-2009 at 06:56 PM.
    all the best,
    mrh

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhardy6647 View Post
    well, not really... but some of the later Klipsch products' sensivity claims stretch credibility.
    I cannot really say for that particular speaker system if it's verity or balderdash.
    The "Heritage" series Klipsch Cornwall was 100 dB/2.83 VAC/1 m (that one I can vouch for, as a former owner).

    A Lowther twincone fullrange driver like the PM-6 is 104 dB/2.83 VAC/1 m

    2.83 V is 1 Watt into 8 ohms.


    Some of the (e.g.) JBL pro sound drivers have sensitivites of 107 dB/2.83 VAC/1 m
    They are very costly.

    You need that kind of sensitivity if you're filling a stadium or using, say, Bob Danielak's "DC Darling" amplifier (single ended 1626 for about 750 mW per channel) in your living room.

    http://www.geocities.com/bobdanielak/darling.html
    http://www.enjoythemusic.com/bostonbash99/
    i sell home theatre, but nothing special in terms of high end brands, we carry
    polk, energy, klipsch, focal and i think the highest efficiency out of any of them is like 91 or so, thats why the 100+ was a shock
    setup
    Panasonic 46pz85
    Polk RTi A9's
    Polk CSi A6
    FXi A6's
    Energy s12.3 sub
    Denon 3808ci
    Pioneer elite dv-79
    Monster 1850
    Denon dp500m w/ grado green
    PS3,XBOX 360, NES

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by reeltrouble1 View Post
    I think you are mixing sensitivity with efficiency they are not the same thing.

    Tubes Rule...No hiss.

    RT1
    I don't think I am confused about the term Sensitivity and Efficiency. :)

    I mean it when I asked. :D

    My definition of hiss is where the sound comes from the tweeter or upper end of the mid-range where it's more like a bit of air letting lose from leakey gauge of the compressor valve. Usually, one can only hear a slight hiss if you listen up close the tweeter.

    I believe Hum / Buzz would be a bit louder sound and more prominent from the distance. It could comes from mid-range driver / woofers / sub-woofers.

    The efficiency of the speaker is largely important to hear or not hear the low signal such as a slight hiss or not but usually hum or buzz is more powerful signal so even the lower efficiency speaker may not completely mask the noise.

    Now, if you have a more efficient speaker (higher sensitivity), you may hear the lowest noise which may be a slight hiss originated from Pre-amp or amp part of the chain or even the source.

    My rigs when used with all SS gears are completely quiet and no hiss of any kind when listening up close with the volume on the preamp set at 1/3 of max.

    I've been playing with the Tube Pre in the chain and I could hear a slight hiss coming from LSi25. But when used with less efficient speaker such as Carver Amazing Platinum, the hiss is not noticeable.

    Note to RT1 : Tubes Are Bewitching! Beware the Power of The Tubey Curse!
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  30. #30

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    SPL is a measure of speaker sensitivity; typically measurd as SPL in dB per 2.83 volts AC input at a distance of 1 meter.
    Efficiency is just that, a measure of how efficiently a loudspeaker transduces electrical power into acoustic power. Efficiency is usually measured in percent.

    They are related but neither the same nor interchangeable.

    I, like many folks, do misuse the term "efficiency" on the hifi boards, but it is good for all to know the correct meaning of the term.

    http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-efficiency.htm

    As a rule of thumb, a large orchestra playing at full tilt (say, fffff!) has an acoustic power output of 1 watt (and is maybe 100 dB at a reasonable listening distance!). If you need to put 100 electrical watts into a loudspeaker to get 1 acoustic watt out, the efficiency of that speaker is 1%.

    All amplifiers produce noise (hiss and hum). Hiss is thermal/shot noise from the active devices (tube or soiled state); hum is incompletely filtered AC from the power supply (and or induced from inadequate or improper grounding). The S/N of a good amplifier might be 100 dB, but with high-sensitivity speakers, if you put your ear up close, you'll hear it.

    Most of my tube amps produce audible hum on high-sensitivity speakers. The quietest tube amp in the house, paradoxically, is the cheapest: the little S-5 Electronics push-pull 11BM8 amp is dead-quiet on the Valencias.
    Last edited by mhardy6647; 05-12-2009 at 07:57 PM.
    all the best,
    mrh

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