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  1. #1

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    Default Pre-amp -- Marsh p200t or Audible Illusions Modulus IIc

    I am looking at these two pre-amps to pair with a solid state amp (emotiva xpa-2). Anyone have any experience with either of these? The marsh is 4 yrs old while the AI is about 8 yrs old.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

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    I'd lean towards the Marsh and away from the Audible Delusions.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Why waste the Marsh on an Emo amp? I'm just saying, the pre will far out class the amp.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  4. #4
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    Both are quality pre amps but with one being SS the other tube I would expect them to sound quite different from each other.It's hard to say which will be the best match for your system and taste.

    Edit.Ah I see it's Marsh's Hybrid tube/Fet pre not the pure SS model.

    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Why waste the Marsh on an Emo amp? I'm just saying, the pre will far out class the amp.
    He need not own a Pass Aleph to reap the benifits of adding a good pre to his system.
    Last edited by GV#27; 06-25-2009 at 02:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GV#27 View Post
    He need not own a Pass Aleph to reap the benifits of adding a good pre to his system.
    Yeah, I know (my lame attempt at late night sarcasm). I'd opt for the Marsh just because I'm more "familiar" with their products. I haven't heard either personally.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  6. #6

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    I realize that there might be better amps than the emo. My plan is to get the pre and then follow up with a tube power amp. That way I can switch back and forth between the two amps depending on what I am listening to.

    The marsh uses a dual triode tube and the seller indicated that it does chew up tubes. So I am a bit concerned about recurring expense as well.

    (I also saw a Krell HTS 5.1 pre/pro. Would that be a worthwhile choice? I know it is apples and oranges with the Krell being solid-state. There are a host of complaints about how user unfriendly it is for HT but apparently no one faults the sound quality. The DAC in it is also exceptional, even though it is a bit dated.)
    Last edited by usp1; 06-25-2009 at 08:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usp1 View Post

    The marsh uses a dual triode tube and the seller indicated that it does chew up tubes. So I am a bit concerned about recurring expense as well.
    That doesn't make sense to me. I have a hybrid integrated amp that uses dual triodes for the input and I have no issues.

    I would do some research on the Marsh and see if other people mention that. Perhaps since it's a "single" tube maybe that puts more stress on it. But typically pre-amp tubes should last a very, very long time.

    I'm to lazy to look it up, what tube does the Marsh use?

    There are a lot of very good tube pre-amps to choose from.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by usp1 View Post
    I realize that there might be better amps than the emo. My plan is to get the pre and then follow up with a tube power amp. That way I can switch back and forth between the two amps depending on what I am listening to.

    The marsh uses a dual triode tube and the seller indicated that it does chew up tubes. So I am a bit concerned about recurring expense as well.

    (I also saw a Krell HTS 5.1 pre/pro. Would that be a worthwhile choice? I know it is apples and oranges with the Krell being solid-state. There are a host of complaints about how user unfriendly it is for HT but apparently no one faults the sound quality. The DAC in it is also exceptional, even though it is a bit dated.)
    Make sure that you are familiar with Krell house sound before you pull the trigger. I would say that Krell can be sterile at times. Perhaps mated with a warm sounding tube amp it may work well.
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  9. #9

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    For the marsh, I found this from one of the reviewers on audioreviews:
    "Preamp uses an out of production, hot-running tube called 5867, which is only available NOS, with a tube life of very low 1000 hours. "

    That does seem low, does it not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by usp1 View Post
    For the marsh, I found this from one of the reviewers on audioreviews:
    "Preamp uses an out of production, hot-running tube called 5867, which is only available NOS, with a tube life of very low 1000 hours. "

    That does seem low, does it not?
    Yep, but there are variations and substituites for the 5867. A typical tube is usually rated at 5000 hrs and 10,000 hours for a military tube of the same type, and should last even longer in a pre-amp (in general)

    Get your search on and find out what else can be used in place of the 5867 tube. I have some websites bookmarked (at home) which have some info when hunting for a sub or equivalent tube. Even shoot Marsh an email or phone call............they should be able to tell you what else you can use or at the very least what to stay away from.

    H9

    Edit: Also get a few more opinions before jumping to any conclusions make sure it's not just a couple instances and do you know for a fact the Marsh uses the 5867 or just relying on that persons post?
    Last edited by heiney9; 06-25-2009 at 09:46 AM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    i finally found info on what tube the p2000t uses. it uses the 5687 tube not 5867.
    i use this tube in my consonance cyber 800 mono block amps and have had no problems.
    a lot of people consider the tung-sol 5687 to sound the best.
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    Thanks marvda1. There seems to be very little online information about what tube is used in this pre. There also seem to be a bunch of rather negative reviews on a'gon about build quality.

    Any other suggestions? (BTW...I did have a Dodd ELP for a while but that there was a slight hiss when I combined with my amp...hence the new search) Looking to spend between 400-600.

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    This is a Chinese piece, but I've been so impressed with my Dared MP-5 that this looks to be a really well built design. If I had a need for a tube pre-amp, I would have bought one already. This isn't cheap Chinese built crap.

    http://www.pacificvalve.us/MingDAMC6R.html

    FWIW

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    This is a Chinese piece, but I've been so impressed with my Dared MP-5 that this looks to be a really well built design. If I had a need for a tube pre-amp, I would have bought one already. This isn't cheap Chinese built crap.

    http://www.pacificvalve.us/MingDAMC6R.html

    FWIW

    H9
    Seems to be worth the price and more
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    I've not heard the Marsh tubed pre, but I owned the P2000B balanced SS and it's a very good sounding and well built preamp. I would think the tubed pre performs well above its price point, and from what I've seen these units are a modder's delight.

    My current pre uses 2 5687 tubes. They are supposed to last a lot more than that. There is not a lot of selection on this tube, but I've found the Philips 5687 WB to be very nice. These are NOS tubes and you can get a pair for around $40 or less.
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    The 5687 is a wonderful tube. I prefer the Ď50ís Raytheon in my ModWright pre, and MU6900ís in my digital source. Sylvania GB-5687 Goldís are another fav of mine.

    Some info about the 5687 (half way down page) and Brendanís top ten list.

    http://www.tempoelectric.com/tubes.htm

    https://www.tubeworld.com/5687.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCompRacer View Post
    ....and MU6900ís in my digital source.....

    Bendix MU6900's? I'd love to try a pair of those, but they are reaaaaally hard to find, plus I've seen them go for over $300
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    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Bendix MU6900's? I'd love to try a pair of those, but they are reaaaaally hard to find, plus I've seen them go for over $300

    True, but much cheaper than Bendix branded 6900’s.

    Some folks say you absolutely have to get the Bendix. MU Engineering bought Bendix Redbank Division, rebranded the old stock and continued to manufacture tubes with Bendix tooling. I can’t speak for the entire production run, but the MU6900’s I have and Norm(RIP) had looked and sounded identical to the Bendix. I sold my Bendix and kept the MU’s.

    You could try the 7119’s.
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    Wow...thats a lot information. Thanks guys. The main user reviews on the marsh 2000t that I saw were at audioreview and a'gon and there were several people with complaints about the build quality (some who replace with the 200b and were surprised by the difference in build quality).

    The sonic frontiers sounds interesting. I will check up on it. I have toyed with the idea of getting some gear from pacific valve but I figure that used is probably a better value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usp1 View Post
    I will check up on it. I have toyed with the idea of getting some gear from pacific valve but I figure that used is probably a better value.
    I agree somewhat. PV has some really great prices whne new and the 30day trial and warranty. The problem with most of the Chinese gear is it rarely comes up FS compared to other more popular brands.

    The only other choice is to buy the gear directly from Hong Kong or China w/big shipping fees and a long journey. Since the Chinese gear overall is less costly buying new from PV is nice option.

    I just missed a Ming Da MC-6R pre on Audiogon shipped for $244......killer deal for a very soild tube pre-amp. PV selles them new for $355 plus shipping

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  23. #23
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    That Marsh is about 50/50 good /bad. I checked with several owners and found 50% said it was ok with a few minor issues that could be resolved. And 50% that said they got nowhere in having the pre fixed or replaced. The thing is about 75% said they had issues in the early use of the pre. Go figure.

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    So it is very likely that the ones that are on the market are very likely to have issues. Its the old lemons rule.

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    Her's a pair of 6900's cheap if you decide to get the MArsh ;)

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