My SV Experience

[HBombToo]

Well after all this time without a sub all I can say is I don't think I ever had one. ;)

The PSW 350 was a very good sub but with great suggestions and advice from Doc regarding the size of the room and SPL that I expect from a sub there really is no comparison between the 350 and SV. Its like trying to compare a truck and a car for hauling purposes.

I got home from work late yesterday and the wife said to me that if I don't get those BIG BOXES out of her kitchen I was going to be sleeping in the shed. Thats all it took and I started cutting.

For a quick recap here is my order from SV:
Dual 20-39CS+
Samson S1000 (B-Stock)
SVS01 Bass Box
Pro-Grade RCA-1/4" interconnect
Dual Better Cables 3M banana plug to spade speaker cables

The SVS01 Bass Box is on back order and will probably take another week to ship but it really doesn't matter to me.

Packaging was great, UPS did a great job and MY GOD the subs are HUGE! I removed everything from the packages and had them lined out and cracked a beer because I had to rearrange my AV rack... "OUCH!" I consolidated the DAC and DVD player to the top shelf and put the Sampson on its own knowing that I would stack the SVS01 on top of the Sampson. I figured at 1000 Watts+ with the Sampson I did not want it colocated with my digital. BTW... Mantis would be proud because I have all power laced on the left rear of the AV rack and audio on the right. This took a little time because I had to remove and replace some tie raps and all will be zipped back up when the SVS01 is delivered.

The Power cord on the Sampson is the very Heavy gage power line like all my equipment with exception to the h/k 520. The better cables package I purchased from SV was also very impressive with gold and silver plated connections and the speaker runs felt like 12 guage with bannanas on one end and the silver split lug on the amps side. Very robust with a mesh type outer sleave!

The only reservation I have about the Sampson is that there is no trigger control but no problem because my DAC also needs powered up manually. The only real confusing aspect to the amp is its ability to handle the input signal from a single LFE. 1 connection with a switch in parallel ties channel 1 LFE IN across both internal amps in the Sampson. After all was connected I had to play with the switch to ensure it was working and indeed as the manual stated it worked with 0 defects.

The Subs are more massive than I ever expected. I knew they were big but damn!!! I tried to colocate into the same corner but it looked like, "Stone Henge", may I quote the Wife who was very patient during this process. The final resting place was at the 2 opposite corners of the front sound stage. Good thing I purchased the 3m speaker runs. The subs were very easy to connect and the bannana slid into the socket and there was a very accurate slip fit. The tightners really only added extra pressure to prevent a disconnection accidently from a tug. I just applied enough pressure so the lugs were finger tight and all was well.

By this time the baby was out of the bath tub running through the house NEKKID so it was time to pay some attention to her. I had everything settup and connected with preliminary power on/off tested with no shorts or problems were noted. It was time to take a listen. The wife wanted to get her bath so I figured Monsters Inc would be pretty good trial because the PSW 350 was always pretty active prior to its demise. Kinda kill three birds with one stone... happy baby, happy wife and happy Bomber.

HOLLY ****! the whole damn house was vibrating when the little girl was Crying or Laughing... keep in mind I did not calibrate at this time and had no idea what kind of pressures I was hearing. For as many times as I have had too watch Monsters Inc. this was like a first for me. Scenes showing Sully walking around made my shirt waffle, Boom...Boom..Boom. I have never eperienced anything like it and never expected it. We enjoyed the movie and when the wife was out of the tub the Veggie tales was started in the back room and I pulled out Avia.

From the get go I set the sub out to 80 Hz crossover at -3dB on the preamp and the Sampson maxed minus 3 clicks. I had to make it quick because by now the wifes patience was growing thin so I did a quicky cal. Balanced everything to 0 for the 5 speakers and -3 dB for the Sub. This initial set was done at a volume level of -15 from the h/k and all speakers set to small and the 5 were right around 87 dB +/- (2-3 dB). But now it was time for the low frequency sweep. Damn I was hitting 95 to 105 spl at the 80 Hz range and really it never fell below 85 across the band untill between 30-20 hz I saw a rise in SPL back to 105-110 dB range. That is some serious SPL's and I'm really not pushing anything. My time ran out with the Avia disk so I figured that a more thorough run can be done this weekend so I put my attention on realigning my fron stage.

I set all preamp settings to match the DD 5.1 settup from above to the Logic 7, DTS, Dolby and stereo. With the handy tape measure and playing around with my fronts I got that beautifull RT image back across my sweet spot and started playing around on the music channels of Direct TV. I could not believe what I was seeing or hearing. I had the volume down to -40 which is probably around 65 dB SPL and as the music thumped the sampson thumped the subs. I still can't believe how smooth this all sounded. The bass was not disturbing in the least but really accented the entire listening experience. I really think that the more time I have on this the more I'm really going to appreciate what I'm hearing. It has been so far one helluva learning experience and I appreciate all of your support.

Well we have a lot of tweeking to do and I'm not done yet but in summary here is the way I see it.

1)Customer Service A+ for calling me and making my order right after I screwed it up on a Friday night.

2)Packageing and Shipping A+ for do damage to the package, a very good packaging job and a delivery on time in screwed up weather.

3)Quality Control A+ for not 1 blemish or mark of any kind and All worked perfectly.

3)Design A and I remove the plus only because of no trigger contol. I figure that with all the quality engineering and manufacturing that went into the sub and amps we should have the ability to remote control it.

4)Instructions A+ for very well witten notes on settup and operation with little marketing hipe.

5)Sound A++ because I can't believe I could get more bang for the buck.

What a great experience for me and it has only just begun. I hope I have not bored any of you because this is one of the longes posts I have ever written....

Regards
HBomb

[BeginnersLuck]

Wow, that sounds impressive...now you can take the "In Shipping" part out of you sig and your ready to rock. Give us an update once you have time to play with them!

Later,
BL

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by BeginnersLuck
now you can take the "In Shipping" part out of you sig and your ready to rock. BL

Done and thanks for the head up because I totally forgot about that...

HBomb

[Dr. Spec]

Well I hate to tell ya - but I TOLD YA SO!

You will only come to appreciate this rig more and more - I am SO happy you are pleased beyond even your high expectations. I tried to prepare you for world class bass and even then I KNEW you would still be blown away.

Wait until you fine tune calibrate and really dial in those subs - they will blend in so seamlessly it will scare you and when the source calls for it - WHAM out they come with a vengeance. How about that sock explosion in Monsters Inc.? :-)

Also - as I predicted by your room description - you have a nice flat curve and a juicy room-gain hump in the 25 Hz range, which will only accentuate the very bottom end and will not add boom at all. Remember, most subs sign-off at 35 Hz - your subs start GAINING below 30 Hz.

How does 110 dB at 20 Hz feel?? :-)

Good on ya - I am forwarding your review to SVS and I would like to have them get in touch with you and fine tune it for publication on the website since it was VERY well written by someone of obvious intelligence and education. SVS NEEDS reviews like yours. They may ask you to add some more of your subjective impressions from movies/music and also update your calibration description after you are dialed in - you are clearly running on the hot side and placement with also affect your final FR. You've got some bass sweeps in the works, too!

Remember to run your S1000 at full gain and drop your LFE volume as needed to compensate. Sounds like your pre-out signal is plenty strong and you will not need the boost feature of the SVS-01, only the phase and SS filter features. Only drop the Samson gain if you can't get the subs volume down any other way.

We'll talk more later I'm sure - GREAT REVIEW. Good on ya HBomb! Like I said in my email to you yesterday - you would have to spend about $4 grand to equal this rig from any other commercial competitor. The price/performance ratio of these subs is unparallelled.

Doc

[Dr. Spec]

You said you were going to catch The Matrix on DVD tonight - what are your impressions with the new subs?

There is a ton of ultra deep bass in this movie that my 350's completely ignored - it's really a great soundtrack.

[HBombToo]

I clipped it when our President starting speaking... what can I say?

There is Great Pleasure getting a full body massage while watching one of your favorite films! You were dead on when Neo saw the fields for the first time... from my toes to my nose the experience was the BOMB!

Bombed is the HBomb and is happy!

[goingganzo]

that is cool. 1 more peep on here with a above average sub setup. i have the turn on thing licked i have a monster power line with remote turn for my sub amp. did you have any ground loop problems? lets say that the samson can draw about 9 amps of curent at full power.


happy booming


ps BHD has some 8 hz bass in it.

[VR3]

You guys totally suck! You make my upgrade bug worse and worse by the thread. I was backing out from buying an SVS subwoofer but now Im stepping back up to the batter's box. Dang you all.

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by goingganzo
i have the turn on thing licked i have a monster power line with remote turn for my sub amp. did you have any ground loop problems? lets say that the samson can draw about 9 amps of curent at full power.

Good solution but I'm plugged into the wall.
Interesting questions... Its on its own 20 Amp breaker. 0 ground loops and I would not doubt at least 18 Amps are available.

[fireshoes]

One's on my 'to buy' list too, but I gotta get a receiver first, then sell the PSW650.

[organ]

Damn it! I'd really like to hear one of those monsters. Do the bass hit as hard as the subs in very good theaters? As deep or even deeper? That slam is missing in most HT subs, especially Polks. The 650 has very good slam, but not in the lower frequencies.

Maurice

[Ceruleance]

That's a good point, does your Outlaw have switched outlets?

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by organ
Damn it! I'd really like to hear one of those monsters. Do the bass hit as hard as the subs in very good theaters? As deep or even deeper? That slam is missing in most HT subs, especially Polks. The 650 has very good slam, but not in the lower frequencies.

Maurice

Subs of this caliber BURY the movie theater experience - even the best theaters.

Your assessment of the 650 is dead-on. It (like my twin 350s used to) moves a lot of air above 35 Hz. Below that - it's a pretty quick nose dive. Despite its rated extension point, the 650 is NOT a bottom feeder.

Check this out - the 650 does well in overall average output, but look at the 25 Hz output chart - it is near the bottom of all performers, right next to Sid's coveted (and obviously overrated) M&K 125 MKII:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/news_subcompare.htm

The SVS is KING of this contest and this is with the ORIGINAL SVS CS driver, not the Improved Standard Driver (ISD) which has been shipping since December '01.

As you can see, even the original SINGLE SVS driver crushed the twin 10" PSW650 in 25 Hz output.

To make matters even worse for the 650:

- for the ISD, add 2 dB to the SVS figures.
- for a PC+/CS+ (dB12 driver), add 8 dB to the SVS figures.
- for an Ultra (TV12 driver), add 10 dB to all the SVS figures.

Based on this chart - my 20-39PC+ is capable of a staggering 18-20dB more output than a PSW650 at 25 Hz.

Doc

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Ceruleance
That's a good point, does your Outlaw have switched outlets?

If you are referring to the 770, no it does not have switched but there is the trigger that I control from the h/k 520 switched outlet.

HBomb

[HBombToo]

I experienced my first failure from my SV upgrade and thought I'd share my experience with ya.

Monday evening a friend from work stopped over and I had to buy a 30 pack to ensure we had a good time. ;)

Well we settled in and cracked the first beer and started bull****ting when I glanced into the family room where the daughter was watching Toy Story 2 for the bazillionth time, but... I did not hear any Bass... Hmmm, I thought maybe the Amp is not on but the wife did indeed turn it on so that was not the problem. I started looking close to make sure no connections came loose but again no problem. I then unplugged the subsonic filter thinkin that was it but when I did that I notices the Sampson LED's showing input from the LFE shut down completely. This said to me that the amp was getting input and to just make sure I removed the LFE in to the subsonic filter and the LED's shut down again.

Well I thought to myself while scratching my Ass... I wonder what SV is going to have to say about this. The rest of the night went real good... Big Fire out in the back and the night air was very crisp and I got Bombed and had a good time. I like this country living stuff because I have never been able to burn stuff in my back yard before. Great fun for a Pyro like myself. ;)

The next day I sent a brief email to SV telling them the above but not as much chatter and wondered what there response would be.

Here is my correspondence with SV.

Tom, Ron
Unfortunatly I have to report a failure. After trouble shooting my system it looks like the Samson 1000 has had a meltdown in the output stage. I thought at first the subsonic filter was the failure but I can see the left and right lights illuminate on the Samson as LFE is sent from my h/k 520 through the filter. Trust me when I tell you that the system has been run at very moderate levels due to the ever present Wife Acceptance Factor.

The system in question is the Dual 20-39 CS+ with the Samson 1000 amp and subsonic filter.

I'm not sure what the next step is and your support will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Henry Navaroli

Not expecting to hear anything for a long while I went about the business of the day when my email alert went off. Getting about 100 emails a day I blew it off untill I was done surfing the Polk Web site, Hee Hee Hee, and when I popped over there was and email from SV. Oh ****, here we go... I was thinking to myself but waite it gets better. I began reading the email that said the following:

Hi Henry,

This is no problem at all, we’ll send out a replacement S1000 today, and you can just fire the defective unit back to SVS at..

SVS LLC
590 Carlin Dr.
Austintown, Ohio 44515.
Be sure to have you name somewhere on the box.
Tom V.
SVS

and my phone began ringing and I looked down and it was my WIFE... "Hello", I said, and in a shrill, pissed, demonic sounding scream I heard, "WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU BOUGHT NOW?????, I just received a UPS shipping confirmation in my email account.

I started back stepping and realized that SV had already processed the claim and explained this to her in my amazement. Well she settled down and I just sat in complete awe at how fast SV Customer care took care of me. I think a total of 10 minutes passed from me launching the original email to the UPS confirmation order.

WHAT A COMPANY! is all I can say.

HBomb

[Dr. Spec]

I wasn't bull****ting when I said SVS Customer Service is second to none.

Besides their unbelievable performing subs, it is the singular reason I am such a strong supporter of this company.

I make no bones about being a die-hard SVS supporter and a customer for life, and I'd bet money Henry is feeling exactly the same way right now.

Doc

[RuSsMaN]

Wow, thats first class service.

Above and beyond, for sure.

Cheers,
Rooster

[Zero]

Excellent review...... Your making me jealous Hbomb, congrats on the new purchase.

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
I'd bet money Henry is feeling exactly the same way right now.

Doc

If I bet against ya I'd be buying you a beer factory direct. BTW i might make it into Columbus OH. No doubt at this point... I invested my entertainment money in the right direction. CC would not have been that responsive.

I'll let ya know how things go with the new amp.

HBombed again

where the HELL is my BEER!!!!!!!!!!!

[goingganzo]

did you send in the card to sampson for the free extended warentee? i know i did on my samson s1000

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by goingganzo
did you send in the card to sampson for the free extended warentee? i know i did on my samson s1000

Come to think of it I did not... I will on this go around though. I was thinking that if the Samson shoots craps again I'm just going to buy myself a Crown.

I hope it was just a fluke.

HBomb

[HBombToo]

Well the new Amp from SV showed up today and guess what? It was not defective in the first place. Now here is the question of the day... How the hell can or could I, (or the wife because all was fine the night before), have trashed both subs? The kicker is that I had everything set so in no way could she have been overdriving them. **** she plays things so low I you can hardly hear the damn thing. The only way I was able to get the Sampson to show very rare and sporadic clipping was when the AVR was at a -10 which is damn loud. I never heard any indication of stress at all or ever so WTF.

I emailed SV tonight and I'll eat some crow over the amp but who would have thought 2 Subs at the same time going bad???

I am bumbed!

HBomb

[RuSsMaN]

Give the details we talked about on aim, and the testing you did. I'm sure others will want to know the specifics.

Cheers,
Russ

[polkatese]

Hbomb,
that's almost unheard of, short of catastrophic event. Could it be blown fuse somewhere?

[HBombToo]

I thought so as well... How the hell could 2 fail simultaneously is the Q.

I pinged Russ and he suggested that I set my speaks to large and drive them with my outlaw. The amp is a monster and can easily handle 350W into 4 Ohms so I did. Well, the same thing as the Samson... nothing. Now if I apply pressure on the woofer itself, "In or up" the coil seems to take hold and I can feal the woofer move but when I release it not even a vibration can be felt.

Crazy stuff!

HBomb

[goingganzo]

so i guess the subs not the amp was blown?

[HBombToo]

Ya but both simultaneously is just CRAZY!!!!

[Dr. Spec]

Henry:

This is very, very bizarre. The dB12 driver in the Plus line is rated for 500 watts continuous and is extremely rugged. I have pushed mine to 114 dB peaks in my room with no bottoming and I am driving it with 525 watts continuous into 4 ohms. Brief clipping of the Samson is perfectly fine and is expected at higher levels. Playback level was not the problem.

Something else happened. For both drivers to blow like that - within one day - at the same exact time - with absolutely no obvious or precipitating factor? Something is very, very wrong here Henry.

Was there a possibility of a power surge? Could the Samson have gone bad and smoked both subs? Have you sent the old Samson back yet? Maybe it WAS bad AND it smoked the subs - ask SVS to test the original Samson. Could a child have had unsupervised access to the volume control?

Well, lets at least get some other stuff out of the loop if you have not already done so. It seems Russ' idea was a good one - I'd bypass the Bass Box, the Better Cables interconnects - everything.

Set the mains to Large, the sub to No, and make sure the H/K and the Outlaw is actually sending a full range signal to the 800's (i.e., you are hearing deep bass from the 800s). Then disconnect an 800 and run the SAME speaker wire to a CS+, and then try the other CS+ just to be sure. If you still get no volume from either sub, I concur the woofs are blown and contact SVS immediately.

This is VERY disturbing. If the woofs are blown, I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the first Samson at this point, unless a young-'un sabotaged the rig.

There will be no need to return the subs - SVS will ship you two new dB12 drivers. Swap out takes about 15 minutes each. Just be VERY careful with the screwdriver.

Ed

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Henry:

This is VERY disturbing. If the woofs are blown, I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the first Samson at this point, unless a young-'un sabotaged the rig.

Ed

Doc, being up all night I had much time to contemplate what exactly happened and I am in total agreement with the Samson theory. In no way did my daughter have access to the SV101 unit which even maxed out did not overpower the subs because I had the LFE from the h/k set to -5. I did that intentionally because with both the SV max volume and the Samson at Max volume I did not clip or show signes of clipping untill the master volume on the h/k was pushing -10 dB.

I typically listen at a -35dB and if I really push it without the wrath of my wife I might be able to get between -20 to -25 range. At a -20 I never saw clipping on the Samson.

The day it all happened the weather was beautiful so it was not lightning.

I am in shock over this but Tom and I have been emailing each other last evening, "Does Tom ever sleep???, he is so responsive!", and I am confident that this will be fixed.

I'll definetly keep ya in the loop.

HBomb

[Dr. Spec]

I'm at work, so email me there, or drop updates on the forum.

I've never heard of an amp on standby smoking a set of woofs. It would literally take a continuous short (i.e., a direct application of one way DC current) to fry the VCs and not let you hear it. In this fashion, the drivers would simply move all the way forward or backward and stop - this brief noise might go unnoticed, and the VCs would just melt down.

Do the subs smell burnt at the vents or near the woofs?

Also, did you indeed verify (as I suggested above by bypassing everything) that the subs are truly not working?

Doc