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Thread: SDA Mids

  1. #1

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    Default SDA Mids

    Is it just me or are the mids on the SDA's just a little disappointing...? I've especially noticed this on the SDA-1C's...
    SDA 1C, SDA 2A, SDA SRS 2, CMT-340SE, Swan M200MKII, Swan D1080MKII, Behringer MS40

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    Disappointing how?...I just picked up my 1C's less than 2 weeks ago and love everything about'em
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    interesting that you describe the drivers are "mids"

    are they really "mid-bass" ?

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    He may just mean as in mid's reproduced by his 1C's, maybe it's certain material you just don't like it on? Settings on your pre,etc? Maybe he just doesn't really like them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Is it just me or are the mids on the SDA's just a little disappointing...? I've especially noticed this on the SDA-1C's...
    Describe what you mean...midrange content? What are you missing? There are times compared to the 2Bs that I feel the "mids" are a tad laid back or recessed, but I haven't noticed this recently. Also, after sealing the cabs with Mortite, I got a definite uptick in bass and midrange...that might be your problem.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
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    I never felt that the midrange was a strong point of the larger SDA's, especially stock.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    I would agree the mid-range is not the best...but they are just so fun to listen to.
    And for the cost of SDA's on the used market, what in the world could you get that would be better?

    From what I gather on this forum, when you mod the crossovers with new caps that will help the mid-range.

    Soon to perform the "SDA2BTL" upgrade on my 2B's and I'll post my findings.

    Enjoy the SDA's.

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    wonder what else comprises the complete system, source material being judged on, room acoustics, noise isolation, power conditioning, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Is it just me or are the mids on the SDA's just a little disappointing...? I've especially noticed this on the SDA-1C's...
    I recently had the opportuniy to compare a pair of upgraded 1c's(sans rdos's) with a pair of stock 1C's,, to my ears the stock 1C's mid-range-mid bass was somewhat muddied and veiled compared to the upgeaded version. With that said, the stock pair have now been upgraded(sonicaps and mills), and there is a definite improvement not only in bass,midbass,, but the soundstage appears to have improved in size and clarity. YMMV.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post
    Describe what you mean...midrange content? What are you missing? There are times compared to the 2Bs that I feel the "mids" are a tad laid back or recessed, but I haven't noticed this recently. Also, after sealing the cabs with Mortite, I got a definite uptick in bass and midrange...that might be your problem.
    I will check this out. This is what I meant. I don't hear the mids quite as clearly as the highs or lows. It's like there's a veil or something over the mids. And this is the case with my SDA SRS 2 as well. I don't remember what my SDA 2A sound like. Lol.

    They are still fun speakers as pointed out, it's just a little disappointing.

    I will also definitely look into Mortite and crossover upgrading though. Hopefully, that will help.
    SDA 1C, SDA 2A, SDA SRS 2, CMT-340SE, Swan M200MKII, Swan D1080MKII, Behringer MS40

    Outlaw Audio M2200 x2, GFA 555 II, BGW 750C

    GDA 700, Outlaw Audio Model 990, Sansa Fuze, X-Fi Platinum Fatality

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    I recently had the opportuniy to compare a pair of upgraded 1c's(sans rdos's) with a pair of stock 1C's,, to my ears the stock 1C's mid-range-mid bass was somewhat muddied and veiled compared to the upgeaded version. With that said, the stock pair have now been upgraded(sonicaps and mills), and there is a definite improvement not only in bass,midbass,, but the soundstage appears to have improved in size and clarity. YMMV.
    George,

    That's good to know as I plan to upgrade the crossovers on my SDA SRS 1.2tl's soon. Do you know what the latest and greatest upgrade is for mine??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I will check this out. This is what I meant. I don't hear the mids quite as clearly as the highs or lows. It's like there's a veil or something over the mids. And this is the case with my SDA SRS 2 as well. I don't remember what my SDA 2A sound like. Lol.

    They are still fun speakers as pointed out, it's just a little disappointing.

    I will also definitely look into Mortite and crossover upgrading though. Hopefully, that will help.
    My ears aren't that educated, but I notice differences with different gear I've tried. Yesterday, a friend had just bought an amp and dropped off a monoblock for me to use on my center. Rather than go home to try his new 2 channel, we hooked it up to my pre to check it out. The amp worked and sounded good, phenomenal bass, but the midrange was being muddied. I rehooked up my Carver and the bass became more controlled and midrange detail was brought back out. Could be a gear synergy problem you're hearing or it could be your room or like others have said, they always felt the midrange on the larger SDAs was weak. I haven't found it so. It's not as resolved as some speakers I've heard, but the "live like" presentation makes up for that IMO. Also, somedays everything sounds wonderful and somedays nothing does...that's on me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post
    My ears aren't that educated, but I notice differences with different gear I've tried. Yesterday, a friend had just bought an amp and dropped off a monoblock for me to use on my center. Rather than go home to try his new 2 channel, we hooked it up to my pre to check it out. The amp worked and sounded good, phenomenal bass, but the midrange was being muddied. I rehooked up my Carver and the bass became more controlled and midrange detail was brought back out. Could be a gear synergy problem you're hearing or it could be your room or like others have said, they always felt the midrange on the larger SDAs was weak. I haven't found it so. It's not as resolved as some speakers I've heard, but the "live like" presentation makes up for that IMO. Also, somedays everything sounds wonderful and somedays nothing does...that's on me.
    I have to agree with most everyone above...and especially with Ron's last statement. My 2Bs sound different on different days and with different source material! Sometimes the mids are not as clear and defined as my M70s other days it's ALL there? Go figure....And I've run them with a few different amps and CDPs, I/Cs etc. So it's not simply the gear.

    They're a temperamental speaker and placement and listening position seem 'critical'. Even then you can have a bad recording or bad day! When the effect is there...(not always) it is impressive...some days it sounds like a surround system for music in 2 channel and the music seems like its coming from everywhere!

    cnh

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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaxer View Post
    George,

    That's good to know as I plan to upgrade the crossovers on my SDA SRS 1.2tl's soon. Do you know what the latest and greatest upgrade is for mine??
    I always liked to use sonicap and mills,, they are a quality product,affordable,,and well supported, and they just seem to work well with mine.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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    One of the reasons I have given up my classic Polks for the time being is that I wanted more resolution and detail from my speakers, mids included. For the price, classic Polks can't be beat. But I've auditioned too many new speakers lately and I believe that speaker technology has come a long way. The 3D sound stage and aural experience of SDAs can't be beat, but I just wanted holistically more than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaxer View Post
    George,

    That's good to know as I plan to upgrade the crossovers on my SDA SRS 1.2tl's soon. Do you know what the latest and greatest upgrade is for mine??

    vmaxer,


    Call or go to Sonic Craft's website:

    http://www.soniccraft.com/ ; Call to order, 501-620-4444, you will be speaking to Elliot.

    You want Sonic Craft Generation 1 http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicaps.htm

    “Sonic Capacitors Generation 1”

    Ask for Custom Matched & as close to 1% tolerance as possible:

    Qty Rating
    (6) - 12uf (he was able to get the 1% tolerance for me)
    (2) - 0.25uf (he is going to have problems matching this and will probably get within 8% tolerance which is okay.
    (2) - 13.5uf (he could get 3% tolerance here for me)
    (2) - 27uf (2% tolerance for me on this one)

    Mills Wirewound Resistors – non-inductive http://www.soniccraft.com/mills_resistors.htm <http://www.soniccraft.com/mills_resistors.htm>

    All should be rated 12 watt

    Qty Rating
    (2) - 2.7 Ώ
    (2) - 7.5 Ώ
    (2) - 11.5 Ώ (you may have to settle for 11 ohms here)
    (2) - 15 Ώ
    (2) - 22.5 Ώ (if you can only get 22 ohms that is okay)


    SDA IC upgrade and Speaker Binding Post upgrade:

    This is based on Darquknights’s upgrade. It is considered on of the best of the SDA Interconnect and Speaker binding post upgrade on the forum.

    * 15’ of what ever speaker wire you are using currently to 1.2 TLs. Hopefully something no smaller than twin lead 12 ga wire.
    * 10 Cardas CCGR short http://www.soniccraft.com/products/c...ardas_ccgr.htm

    <http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/bindingpost/cardas_ccgr.htm>

    * Four red and 6 black delrin binding post insulators. http://www.cardas.com/content.php?ar...ing=Insulators <http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&content_id=14&pagestring=Insu lators>

    * Two heavy ¼ “ gold spades that will accept up to 6 guage wire. http://vampirewire.com/mcart/index.c...3&page=1&cat=7 <http://vampirewire.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&page=1&cat=7>

    * All of the above except for the spades can be ordered from Elliot.
    Polk Audio SDA SRS 1.2TL's
    With new Exotic wood, Sonicaps, Mills & RDO198's - Born on 4-24-1989 and Signed by Matthew Polk!!!!


    My Polk SDA SRS 1.2TL's http://www.LASAREATH.com/


    It All Started here: http://tinyurl.com/lasareath2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Is it just me or are the mids on the SDA's just a little disappointing...? I've especially noticed this on the SDA-1C's...
    No offense intended......while crossover upgrades will help, better gear will most definitely improve what's coming out of your SDA's.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasareath View Post
    vmaxer,


    Call or go to Sonic Craft's website:

    http://www.soniccraft.com/ ; Call to order, 501-620-4444, you will be speaking to Elliot.

    You want Sonic Craft Generation 1 http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicaps.htm

    “Sonic Capacitors Generation 1”

    Ask for Custom Matched & as close to 1% tolerance as possible:

    Qty Rating
    (6) - 12uf (he was able to get the 1% tolerance for me)
    (2) - 0.25uf (he is going to have problems matching this and will probably get within 8% tolerance which is okay.
    (2) - 13.5uf (he could get 3% tolerance here for me)
    (2) - 27uf (2% tolerance for me on this one)

    Mills Wirewound Resistors – non-inductive http://www.soniccraft.com/mills_resistors.htm <http://www.soniccraft.com/mills_resistors.htm>

    All should be rated 12 watt

    Qty Rating
    (2) - 2.7 Ώ
    (2) - 7.5 Ώ
    (2) - 11.5 Ώ (you may have to settle for 11 ohms here)
    (2) - 15 Ώ
    (2) - 22.5 Ώ (if you can only get 22 ohms that is okay)


    SDA IC upgrade and Speaker Binding Post upgrade:

    This is based on Darquknights’s upgrade. It is considered on of the best of the SDA Interconnect and Speaker binding post upgrade on the forum.

    * 15’ of what ever speaker wire you are using currently to 1.2 TLs. Hopefully something no smaller than twin lead 12 ga wire.
    * 10 Cardas CCGR short http://www.soniccraft.com/products/c...ardas_ccgr.htm

    <http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/bindingpost/cardas_ccgr.htm>

    * Four red and 6 black delrin binding post insulators. http://www.cardas.com/content.php?ar...ing=Insulators <http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&content_id=14&pagestring=Insu lators>

    * Two heavy ¼ “ gold spades that will accept up to 6 guage wire. http://vampirewire.com/mcart/index.c...3&page=1&cat=7 <http://vampirewire.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&page=1&cat=7>

    * All of the above except for the spades can be ordered from Elliot.
    Lasareath,

    You refer to SDA 1C, is the same good for my SDA SRS 1.2tl's?? I really appreciate your help with this project!!

    Thanks to all who are helping!!
    Pio Elete Pro 520
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    I'd tend to agree with you. I've got a pair of 2A's, so I don't exactly have the biggest baddest SDA's around though.

    The SDA effect is pretty cool, but at times it almost annoys me. The sound stage can seem almost unnaturally wide at times, and sometimes instruments seem bloated and far larger than they should be within the soundstage. I can definitely see what you mean about the mids seeming kind of veiled. So far, I'm not really a fan of the RD0194-1's in them either. Not that they sound bad...just not to my personal liking.

    The low end is definitely very substantial though.

    Comparing them to my Monitor 7A's, I really think I prefer the 7's in a lot of ways. The mid-range sounds a lot more natural to me, and the highs from the Peerless tweets are a lot more laid back, and more to my liking. The low end definitely isn't as prominent though, and...no SDA effect.

    I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I'm going to continue down the SDA path, or move along to something else when I get my next speaks. I'll probably end up trying some 1C's eventually...but that's still up in the air.

    I've still got several other gear purchases to make before I'm ready for new speaks though.
    The nirvana inducer-
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    PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Type 4 speaker cables
    Audioquest Sidewinder IC's
    Audioquest Black Mamba IC's
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    No offense intended......while crossover upgrades will help, better gear will most definitely improve what's coming out of your SDA's.
    None taken at all. Definitely something to keep in mind as I have mostly entry-level gear (at most, they might be considered mid-range).
    SDA 1C, SDA 2A, SDA SRS 2, CMT-340SE, Swan M200MKII, Swan D1080MKII, Behringer MS40

    Outlaw Audio M2200 x2, GFA 555 II, BGW 750C

    GDA 700, Outlaw Audio Model 990, Sansa Fuze, X-Fi Platinum Fatality

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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaxer View Post
    Lasareath,

    You refer to SDA 1C, is the same good for my SDA SRS 1.2tl's?? I really appreciate your help with this project!!

    Thanks to all who are helping!!
    No, he is referring to the SDA IC (interconnect cable), not the SDA 1C's.

    The parts he listed are for the SRS SDA 1.2TL.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablycurt View Post
    The sound stage can seem almost unnaturally wide at times,
    That is a good thing Curt. Is not a real concert stage wide?

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    No, he is referring to the SDA IC (interconnect cable), not the SDA 1C's.

    The parts he listed are for the SRS SDA 1.2TL.
    Oops...Thanks for pointing that out.:o

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conradicles View Post
    That is a good thing Curt. Is not a real concert stage wide?
    Yes, but it seems too wide sometimes IMO. It depends on the material. Most Pink Floyd tunes, for example, sound amazing, and spot on with the SDA effect. A lot of the Bob Dylan and Grateful Dead that I listen to though, the soundstage has gotten so wide that there almost seem be gaps in the sound, where there shouldn't be gaps. In other instances, instruments feel bloated, as if they're taking up way more space than they should be. Drums feel like they're expanding beyond the bounds of the drum set itself...farther than they should. A lot of Hendrix tunes sound so wide, that it's utterly ridiculous. I was hearing sound effects coming from the other sides of the walls in my room. For my tastes...that's a little too wide.

    I'll probably end up trying some 1C's eventually...but at this point I doubt that I'll go too far down the SDA path. I don't see any TL's in my future currently or anything like that.

    The SDA effect is definitely cool, and they're very fun speakers to listen to, but I just feel that I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of a more accurate, detailed speaker. So far, SDA's haven't been able to provide that detail and accuracy for me.

    To each their own though. I'm still enjoying the SDA's for the time being.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Denon DVD-2910 universal player
    DPA The Little Bit Three DAC
    Yamaha P-300 turntable/TCC TC-750 phono preamp
    Acurus L10 preamp
    Adcom GFA-545 power amp
    PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Type 4 speaker cables
    Audioquest Sidewinder IC's
    Audioquest Black Mamba IC's
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's

  25. #25

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    Detail and accuracy are so overrated. Live music never sounds like that.

    Play around with your set up, SDA's should present a believable soundstage.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Detail and accuracy are so overrated. Live music never sounds like that.

    Play around with your set up, SDA's should present a believable soundstage.
    Being a musician myself, I favor detail and accuracy over anything else. I want to be able to hear everything that's going on with every instrument at all times...the SDA's aren't doing that for me currently. When it comes down to it, I find my Monitor 7A's to be a lot more detailed and accurate than the SDA 2A's.

    In my experience, live music can most certainly be detailed and accurate. I should know, because I've played quite a few live shows myself, and I'm a novice sound board operator...and whenever I've run sound, that's always what I shoot for...detail.

    I've played around with placement a lot...and I still am for that matter. Every few days or so I adjust the position. My current room isn't really ideal...15'x18'...so it is a bit on the small side. They're currently 2.5 feet from the side walls, and 13 1/4" from the back walls.

    Don't take me wrong...I'm not bashing on the SDA's at all. The SDA effect is awesome...it just may not be for me, and my particular needs. I'll probably get some 1C's eventually, and they'll stick around for a very long time, whether or not they're my main speakers. SDA's are some fun speakers, but accuracy is really where it's at for me.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Denon DVD-2910 universal player
    DPA The Little Bit Three DAC
    Yamaha P-300 turntable/TCC TC-750 phono preamp
    Acurus L10 preamp
    Adcom GFA-545 power amp
    PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Type 4 speaker cables
    Audioquest Sidewinder IC's
    Audioquest Black Mamba IC's
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's

  27. #27

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    I've been to more Dead shows than the years you've been on this earth. Detail and accuracy were not part of the show. :D

    What gear are you using with the SDA's? Have you upgraded the crossovers?

    Just my 2 cents, stop shooting for detail, shoot for musicality.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    No, detail and accuracy weren't part of the Dead shows...but that's not all that I listen to.;) I would have been to more Dead shows...if only I'd been born a bit sooner. My brother caught the last few years of Dead tour up until Jerry's death. I have close to half of all the shows that the Dead ever played though...so at least I've gotten to hear them all after the fact.:) I never got to see Jerry though unfortunately...he's been basically my biggest musical influence. That I never got to see him is a fact that deeply disappoints me...but I suppose there's not much that can be done about it now...

    I'm currently running a Cambridge Audio DVD89 universal player for the source, a Dodd ELP that I've got on loan from Kex at the moment, an Adcom GFA-545, AQ Sidewinder IC's and AQ Type 4 speaker cables. It's all going through an APC H10 power conditioner.

    The speaks are SDA2A's, with RD0-194's and stock XO's. I'm not sure if I want to upgrade the XO's in these or not, since I'll probably upgrade to 1C's eventually.
    Last edited by comfortablycurt; 07-19-2009 at 01:39 AM.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Denon DVD-2910 universal player
    DPA The Little Bit Three DAC
    Yamaha P-300 turntable/TCC TC-750 phono preamp
    Acurus L10 preamp
    Adcom GFA-545 power amp
    PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Type 4 speaker cables
    Audioquest Sidewinder IC's
    Audioquest Black Mamba IC's
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's

  29. #29

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

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    Apr 2005
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    San Jose, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablycurt View Post
    No, detail and accuracy weren't part of the Dead shows...but that's not all that I listen to.;) I would have been to more Dead shows...if only I'd been born a bit sooner. My brother caught the last few years of Dead tour up until Jerry's death. I have close to half of all the shows that the Dead ever played though...so at least I've gotten to hear them all after the fact.:) I never got to see Jerry though unfortunately...he's been basically my biggest musical influence. That I never got to see him is a fact that deeply disappoints me...but I suppose there's not much that can be done about it now...

    I'm currently running a Cambridge Audio DVD89 universal player for the source, a Dodd ELP that I've got on loan from Kex at the moment, an Adcom GFA-545, AQ Sidewinder IC's and AQ Type 4 speaker cables. It's all going through an APC H10 power conditioner.

    The speaks are SDA2A's, with RD0-194's and stock XO's. I'm not sure if I want to upgrade the XO's in these or not, since I'll probably upgrade to 1C's eventually.
    The problem is you're a Deadhead that likes Dylan. It's not the speakers it's your taste :p:D;). I caught them a few times as most were local and I had friends that travelled with them. They never did it for me. I was always looking for them to kick into gear and get a real singer. Dylan can write lyrics and music, but I'd rather hear someone else cover his tunes. I know I'll probably get flamed for that :).

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablycurt View Post
    No, detail and accuracy weren't part of the Dead shows...but that's not all that I listen to.;) I would have been to more Dead shows...if only I'd been born a bit sooner. My brother caught the last few years of Dead tour up until Jerry's death. I have close to half of all the shows that the Dead ever played though...so at least I've gotten to hear them all after the fact.:) I never got to see Jerry though unfortunately...he's been basically my biggest musical influence. That I never got to see him is a fact that deeply disappoints me...but I suppose there's not much that can be done about it now...

    I'm currently running a Cambridge Audio DVD89 universal player for the source, a Dodd ELP that I've got on loan from Kex at the moment, an Adcom GFA-545, AQ Sidewinder IC's and AQ Type 4 speaker cables. It's all going through an APC H10 power conditioner.

    The speaks are SDA2A's, with RD0-194's and stock XO's. I'm not sure if I want to upgrade the XO's in these or not, since I'll probably upgrade to 1C's eventually.
    If you think the 2A's soundstage is too wide at times then you shouldn't even consider the 1C's or any of the larger models. There soundstage is much wider than your 2A's.

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