Want to Know What Happens When You Leave SRS's and Maggies Alone for a Weekend?

**Tour2ma** · 03-09-2003 07:49 PM

They start a family! That's what happens.

George,

As I was saying… Yes, I picked up a pair of original CA's a couple weeks ago, not the Plat's that I understand you own. Maybe I’ll work my way up later, but meanwhile...

Initial impression…. They are so effin musical it's ridiculous. For the past two weeks they’ve been peeling back layers of music, revealing things I never knew existed in recordings I’ve heard countless times. I’ve been slack jawed on numerous occasions.

The only disappointment to date was a listen to Time Out. Brubeck's piano was breaking up some during the sharper attacks in “Blue Rondo…”. But the rest was very nice. For a while I was afraid I’d bought an imminent Kaptan issue, but I haven't heard evidence of it since.

I think my Maggies are a tad better for acoustic, small ensembles, e.g., jazz and chamber music, where there's not a great deal of bass involved. And I still like my SRS's for some rock and HT, but the CA's are the best all purpose speaker in the house right now and they are definitely my Symphony speakers. With two exceptions they consistently put every instrument right where it belongs. Only the tympani and a woodblock seem to wander down right front when they should be right rear. But I'm pretty sure I don't have the CA’s optimized yet position-wise, and they probably won’t be until I set up a 2 ch room. Also I’ve not hooked in the Sonic Holography unit as yet.

But as an example of the detail of which these rascals are capable, on my recording of Stravinsky’s “The Firebird”, during the oboe solo I could hear the caps on the oboe popping open an instant before the note began. I played the segment three times before I realized WTH I was hearing. Just astounding. The flip side is I’ve also heard flaws in the recording I’ve never heard before, but I’ll take this bit of bad for all of the good I am hearing.

One curious thing I have noticed is that the CA’s seem to require a warm up period. They have pretty much been on all waking hours for the past two weeks. After a night’s rest, they seem to need a half hour or so to really open up. Wonder if you have a similar experience?

Anyway, I love them. They are most welcome in my house.

I am attaching a photo below of the new kids with a proud Papa in the background. I think I’ll mate them again… :D

**Dr. Spec** · 03-09-2003 08:47 PM

WOW! Great to see you enjoying your gear so much - awesome.

**RuSsMaN** · 03-09-2003 09:50 PM

How many 12's are behind those grills? I'm so used to looking at pics of Mr Grand's rig, all others look a tad different.

Cheers,
Rooster

**Tour2ma** · 03-09-2003 10:10 PM

Russ,
There are four sub's behind each panel to handle <100 Hz signals. Operating manual doesn't quote size, but 12" looks about right. I honestly did not realize that the ribbons handle all the frequencies down to 100.

Most distinctive difference is that mine have two- 30" ribbons, whereas the Platinums have one-60" ribbon. Where my ribbons' grills have a seam mid-way, the Plat's have one continuous grill. The Plat's grill also appears to have more open area to my eye.

Doc,
Freq responce is 18 - 40k +/- 3 db. Not too shabby....

Coolest part in the manual is,
"Recommended Power: 1200 watt into 8 ohms"... :D

**RuSsMaN** · 03-09-2003 10:42 PM

Which model do you have brotha? The only model I know of with a crossover (90Hz) was the original Amazing, that used four free-air 12" woofers.

If you have the Platinum, that ribbon is full range 20Hz-40Khz. I'm an idiot as far as these speakers go, but I think I'm on track here. The Platinum was rated @ 800w/ch, and that doesn't surpise me, if I recall they ran low 80's in the efficiency dept. Something like 83db 1w/1m.

Lucky effin bastard. One day I'll bag em, one effin day.

Cheers,
Rooster

**HBombToo** · 03-09-2003 10:47 PM

Simply Amazing. I can't understand how the Electric field excites the ribbon? Any of you guys up for teaching a little physics?

HBomb

**Tour2ma** · 03-09-2003 11:52 PM

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
Which model do you have brotha? The only model I know of with a crossover (90Hz) was the original Amazing, that used four free-air 12" woofers.

If you have the Platinum, that ribbon is full range 20Hz-40Khz. I'm an idiot as far as these speakers go, but I think I'm on track here. The Platinum was rated @ 800w/ch, and that doesn't surpise me, if I recall they ran low 80's in the efficiency dept. Something like 83db 1w/1m.

Lucky effin bastard. One day I'll bag em, one effin day.
Cheers,
Rooster

Russ,
They are the Originals - two 30" ribbons per speaker. I implied the wrong bottom end for the ribbons. Manual says they go down to 25 Hz... even more impressive; and the top end is 40k. I also mis-quoted the FR variation as +/- 3 db, the correct variation is -3 db, no "+".

And yeah the 4 woofers are free air. Everything is radiating everywhere. Where I have them set up right now (halls left, behind left and right) they absolutely fill the house with sound.

Manual quotes the sensitivity at 85db @ 3m/7.12v equivalent to 85 db @ 1m/1,82v - apparent they do an alternate 3m test as they have no driver to focus the mic on for a 1000 Hz signal.

Lastly from one effin bastard to another I thank you... and make that a really big bag... at 5'6'' and 120 lbs each a Hefty bag ain't gonna cut it... ;)

HBomb,
Can't help you man, but I can tell you it excites me.

I did once see a signal applied to a candle flame that turned it into a near perfect point source radiator. I think it was supposed to teach me something that would relate to how the ribbons work, but I"ve slept since then.

Anyway the flame put out very, very low SPL and no bass at all... maybe if they'd bi-wired it...

**HBombToo** · 03-10-2003 12:01 AM

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm

should have went here fist.

HBomb

**gidrah** · 03-10-2003 03:49 AM

I've wanted a pair for years. I've never heard them, but it seems like a logical design. The accuracy of ribbons coupled with the air movement of the woofers. Throw in the fact of the inherent accuracy of open baffle and wahlah! Best of many worlds.

I've seen a DIY on a plasma flame tweeter that looked pretty frickin' awesome. Unfortunately the site that I used to get there from is now dead. It was one of those were you just bug your eyes on go "WTF".

**gidrah** · 03-10-2003 04:05 AM

It's been renamed, but I found it. I've since found other DIY plasma sites.
http://www.plasmatweeter.de/

Sorry about the hijack, but I look at it like this:
(SRS+Maggie=CA)=3X(lucky bastard).

**TroyD** · 03-10-2003 05:43 AM

gidrah,

He is also hoarding a pair of DQ-10's as well. Hoarding SOB.

BDT

**Tour2ma** · 03-10-2003 12:10 PM

Originally posted by TroyD
gidrah,
He is also hoarding a pair of DQ-10's as well. Hoarding SOB.
BDT

Well somebody got up on the wrong side of the sandbox today, didn't he?

Price of that AR just went up...

Something tells me that gidrah knows a fellow collector when he sees one...

gidrah, if you ever head west, let me know. Only ~5 hours away here...

And yes, I also picked up a pair of DQ-10's... same trip to FLA where I picked up the CA's. But the DQ's aren't in action yet; they need a little foam job first.

**TroyD** · 03-10-2003 12:30 PM

heh, heh, heh........

gidrah is a player.....

Well get to repairing mofo, I can't WAIT to hear your thoughts about the DQ's. Specifically, as compared to the Maggies.

BDT

**mantis** · 03-10-2003 09:19 PM

Originally posted by TroyD
heh, heh, heh........

gidrah is a player.....

Well get to repairing mofo, I can't WAIT to hear your thoughts about the DQ's. Specifically, as compared to the Maggies.

BDT

I'm excited to hear/read your thoughts as well.
Hey Troy,
I still look from time to time around here in the used stereo trading outlets/stereo exchanges.None has showed up since the last pair I didn't get to listen to.......that sucked.O well one day I will hear what your talking about.;)

**George Grand** · 03-14-2003 03:31 PM

Why bother listening to a pair of DQ-10's, or anything else for that matter, with a pair of Amazing's in the house?

I have the "Take Five" you mentioned, and there is no breakup on these Platinum's.

The ribbons DO extend down to 25Hz, but not with the "oomph" that the 4 X 12" woofs possess. You do indeed have the ORIGINAL Amazing Loudspeaker's, and they were notoriously inefficient. The Platinum's have a min recommended power of 100 wpc (that's why I use 1,000!!), and I have actually driven them to satisfying levels with a 100wpc Nikko 1219 receiver.

They can reveal so much detail, that previously listenable poor recordings, are exposed for what they are. Mine require no warm-up, at least not that I can hear. They wipe everything else I've ever heard or used right from stone cold.

Welcome to the " I Got The Best Club".

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

**Tour2ma** · 03-14-2003 07:25 PM

Thank you George, I am loving my membership.

What in your opinion was audibly improved in the Silver and Platinum Editions that followed the original CA's? I remember reading that the original CA’s had some issues with the bass drivers and ribbons that the later editions addressed, but I understood they were longevity related and have never seen anything on their comparative “sound”.

Also dd you ever hear the ALIII's? I know they're not lilekly to be in the same league, but was just wondering how they stack up.

Originally posted by George Grand
Why bother listening to a pair of DQ-10's, or anything else for that matter, with a pair of Amazing's in the house?
They can reveal so much detail, that previously listenable poor recordings, are exposed for what they are. Mine require no warm-up, at least not that I can hear. They wipe everything else I've ever heard or used right from stone cold.

The only answers I can give to your rhetorical question are the historical significance of certain speakers and the fact that, as you say, the CA’s are so revealing I need something with which to listen to substandard recordings. So far I haven’t found much that I consider unlistenable on my CA’s, but a few that are more enjoyable on other speaks I own. I’d like to attribute this to the others’ relative lack of detail. However, in the case of my Maggies, I am not sure it’s appropriate. They are quite detailed as well.

One side note: I was rocking the house a couple nights ago with Humble Pie’s “I Don’t Need No Doctor” when the left speaker went dead. Scarred the crap out of me until I noticed that they are fused (the copy of the manual I ordered from Carver doesn’t even mention fuses???). Anyway I swapped back to my SRS’s, which you’ll note in my posted pic are behind the CA’s, and I did not bother to move the CA’s (which at 120# each is a bother). I swear that on some material the SRS’s sound better having to pass around and through the CA’s. By better I mean slightly warmer and with improved imaging.

I still get a nice SDA effect... Weird…

On the fuses it turned out that the left had a 3.5-ampere and the right a 15-ampere!!! Both were normal blows. The left seems light to me, at just under 50 watts no wonder it blew on a rocking song. However, at 900 watts the right seems way too high to offer any reasonable protection. I called Sunfire/ Carver CS and they’re supposed to be 4.0 slo-blo. At 64 watts this still seems a bit light for speakers with a recommended amp power of 1000 wpc, but at least the slo-blo class means the transients aren’t going to blow them. What fuse do your Plat’s call for?

Speaking of historical significance... I bagged a pair of AR3a’s this past week. Will be a while before I retrieve them, but as I say, I’m a collector. Original Advent’s are next on the list… :D

Mantis,
Rest assured I’ll be updating when the DQ’s are in business. They were going to be the announced in the next "mating" thread, but some people (read Troy) just like to spoil a party... ;)

Troy was my on-line consulatant during my DQ hunt on ebay weeks before the actual event. And I think "Desert Boy's"

patience with me just ran out as I have been "on the verge" of repairing and setting them up for a couple weeks now.

**George Grand** · 03-14-2003 09:56 PM

4 AMP Slo-Blo's for these also. Not to worry, I have using Carver amps bridged for 1,000 watt operation for over twelve years now. Never blew a fuse, and it can get loud when the family's not around.

My friend Harold has a pair of Silver's (I found them for him just to get him to quit bugging me about selling him my Platinums). They were perfect when they arrived and he still lived here in Jersey. He moved to Phoenix, and I visited him out there. I was listening to them and they had a buzz, on one part of one song. Happened at the same spot after several replays. Turned out that one of his ribbons had gotten slightly loose. Funny thing was, it only happened on THAT song. Sounded fine on everything else, including heavy bottomed Telarc's. He's since replaced BOTH ribbons. No such bad luck here (knock wood). Even if one HAD to replace both ribbons, the investment would STILL be well under what one could pay for more reknowned, yet less capable speakers.Tens of thousands of dollars less in some cases. Not only are the Amazing's the best I've ever heard, they were one of the greatest "steals" in audio history.

The AL-111 was/is okay, BUT, only one 10" woofer per side limits a mans horizons. There is no substitute for radiating area. Eight 12 inchers in one room is manly. Leave the powered subs for kids and cowgirls is the way I see it. Most of the sub/sat systems I've heard sound so bad, the owners should be dismembered for the assault on my ears. A big, full range loudspeaker designed by a SPEAKER MANUFACTURER, and driven by a powerful amp, is always going to whip the **** out of some patched together affair.

Smart grab on the 3a's my man. Now THEY are a piece of audio history. I can't remember another speaker, that had so many OTHER speakers compared to it from an advertising standpoint. In its heyday, it WAS the point of reference, and most manufacturers tried to beat it. None in actuality, could even come close to matching it. Super smooth response, and a bottom end that knocks the **** out of most stuff that's produced today! If you ever find a pair of AR-11's, BUY THEM! They were the 3a, carried to the nth degree. A "Super 3a" if you will.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

**wangotango68** · 03-14-2003 10:14 PM

at one time i had 2 sets of carver speakers..

**wangotango68** · 03-14-2003 10:15 PM

but i have just one now..

**TroyD** · 03-15-2003 10:37 AM

yeah, yeah, yeah....big mouth, that's me, sorry! :D

BDT

**RuSsMaN** · 03-15-2003 10:51 AM

Wow, I had no idea so many members had Carvers.

**joe6pak** · 03-15-2003 03:41 PM

The best speakers.

I'm curious. When was this contest held and who were the judges?

joe

**Tour2ma** · 03-15-2003 04:57 PM

Joe,

As always put an "IMO" in front of any such statement. Different ears on different heads = different "bests".

I'll only say that they're damn good and the best all purpose in my house, which is rapidly filling up with competition. :D

**mantis** · 03-15-2003 08:38 PM

I gotta agree with joe on this one.

Very bold statement in calling any speakers "THE BEST".

I will add what I think is "THE BEST".........

Dynaudio C4's.I don't ever remember being moved the way they moved me.I have heard many many speakers and thousands of different rooms/setups/etc.The Dynaudio C4's just stopped me in my tracks.
Gear was Krell mono's Krell Transport,Krell Pre amp all wired with Transparent Reference XL"S.Balanced from the Pre to both amps.Balanced from the transport.CUPS holding up the wire to Isolate it from ground static.
This is my all time "THE BEST OF THE BEST OF THE VERY BEST".

I did hear the Carver Amazings in a customers house who lived in a retired home Trailer.He also had all carver gear running them with the really old Mostercable wire.They where in his livingroom.He turned them on and I thought they sounded good.I don't recall being knocked out of my socks.
But as anything else in this fun and exciting hobby of ours,we all have our opnions of what sound good or THE BEST for that matter.I respect everyones opnion on that subject.

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