Onkyo settings are not active on direct feed

[slowpolky]

I cant control the features like late night compression when watching a bluray on direct mode . I am using the ps3 , is there a way around this?

[cnh]

Don't use the Direct Mode!

cnh

[kuntasensei]

Yeah, why would you use the direct mode? Direct feeds each channel exactly what it's being sent. It removes all additional features, INCLUDING your crossover points... meaning your subwoofer will likely only be reproducing the LFE channel, with no redirected bass from the other channels.

Which model Onkyo are we talking about here?

[Mike LoManaco]

I don't use it, but supposedly, DIRECT should give a "purer" signal in that it is supposed to bypass video circuitry from the receiver, etc; when listening to CDs, I use STEREO or PRO LOGIC II MUSIC.

Then, there's the Multichannel/Direct dilemma when dealing with PCM signals...some say when your receiver is getting multichannel PCM signals decoded from a Blu-ray player, you should use DIRECT mode...others say to use the MULTICHANNEL listening mode. If what 'Kunt said is right, using DIRECT for this scenario will not allow the soundtracks to be heard correctly because it will be bypassing ALL processing done by the receiver, including crossovers and bass management, etc.

Should the MULTICHANNEL listening mode be used when playing back incoming PCM signals?

[kuntasensei]

Just saw in another thread that he's not using a sub... so I guess that's a non-issue. PS3 sends the audio as multichannel PCM, so he should stick with multichannel mode so it's still doing bass management and equalization (if he's using Audyssey 2EQ). Or if he's using a 7.1 setup, I'd roll with DPL-IIx Movie Mode for any 5.1 multichannel stuff and stick with multichannel for anything natively 7.1.

[slowpolky]

The Onkyo model is a 607 mike

Why not use direct ? cnh

I thought using direct was the only way to get true hd from the ps3's internal decoding .

[Mike LoManaco]

Just saw in another thread that he's not using a sub... so I guess that's a non-issue. PS3 sends the audio as multichannel PCM, so he should stick with multichannel mode so it's still doing bass management and equalization (if he's using Audyssey 2EQ). Or if he's using a 7.1 setup, I'd roll with DPL-IIx Movie Mode for any 5.1 multichannel stuff and stick with multichannel for anything natively 7.1.

Yeah but what about decoded multichannel PCM coming from a player like mine, the Panny 'BD10A? TrueHD soundtracks are decoded as multichannel PCM and sent over HDMI to my 605...should MULTICHANNEL listening mode be used here also?

Doesn't Onkyo's "Multichannel" mode simply play back what's coming in over the analog multichannel interface, while the signal gets processed inside the source player? Or does "Multichannel" LISTENING MODE apply to DIGITAL sources connected to the receiver as well, applying all bass management, delays, levels, etc?

[Mike LoManaco]

The Onkyo model is a 607 mike

I didn't ask which model you had; 'Kunt did. :)

Why not use direct ? cnh

I thought using direct was the only way to get true hd from the ps3's internal decoding .

This is a common "issue" with folks using their players to do the decoding -- as I am; as far as I understand it, there are only TWO listening modes available on the Onkyos to play back incoming multichannel PCM audio, such as from a Blu-ray player or your PS3: DIRECT or MULTICHANNEL. That's what I have to choose from in my 605's Listening Mode Preset menu when setting up Multichannel PCM sources; so, DIRECT is NOT the only way to play back decoded TrueHD from a PS3 or Blu-ray player -- you also have the choice of MULTICHANNEL listening mode, which I believe is the correct mode to use for these PCM signals, because, as discussed, MULTICHANNEL mode allows for bass management and all processing in your receiver, whereas DIRECT does not.

[kuntasensei]

Incidentally, the reason he may not be getting the option of using the late night compression is because it's being sent as multichannel PCM. Late night mode is typically based on data in the Dolby Digital bitstream, so in any case where you're not sending the bitstream to the receiver, I'm thinking you might not be able to apply late night compression.

That said, he should still be able to apply Audyssey's Dynamic Volume when in multichannel mode, which should keep dialogue clear at lower volume levels. It probably won't work in Direct because Direct sends the unaltered signal direct to each channel (as the name implies).

[slowpolky]

I am wondering if I should just go ahead and purchase a bluray player that doesnt tamper with the signal internally

Any suggestions?

[kuntasensei]

You probably won't hear a difference. The argument rages on whether it's better to decode in the player or in the receiver. The PS3 does a very capable job of sending master quality audio via multichannel PCM.

[slowpolky]

Its all very confusing , but I think the onkyo would do a better job with a non decoded signal . I think it would be better than what the ps3 can do with audio

ps3 vs full size receiver for decoding ?

[kuntasensei]

There would be no difference. As someone else here on the forum put it... it's like unzipping a file and then sending it vs. sending the zipped file to be unzipped later in the chain. The end result is the same. But you do want to run it in Multichannel mode instead of Direct.

And for the love of God, man... get a subwoofer! :P

[slowpolky]

Its not going to be true hd from the ps3 because some of the singal will get lost if not unpacked in the receiver

So I still think it may sound better

Wish I had a sub ,even when I get one I still wont be able to crank it

[nguyendot]

Is this a serious question? The whole point of direct mode is that you can't do any processing to the signal. It's not direct anymore if you're using any type of processing.

[BlueFox]

You probably won't hear a difference. The argument rages on whether it's better to decode in the player or in the receiver.

This is just a guess, and might make no sense, or be wrong, but by decoding in the AVR it would seem any jitter in the LPCM stream could be eliminated. If true then it might sound a bit better.

[kuntasensei]

Its not going to be true hd from the ps3 because some of the singal will get lost if not unpacked in the receiver

So I still think it may sound better

Wish I had a sub ,even when I get one I still wont be able to crank it

None of the signal gets lost. You're just changing where in the chain it gets decoded. The only reason the PS3 handles things that way is because its initial launch was before HDMI 1.3a was finalized, so it doesn't have the parts inside to bitstream the lossless codecs. Still, by sending it as LPCM, you're getting the exact same master-quality audio at your receiver. But if you want to get a good bitstreaming player, don't let me stop ya'! ;)

Get a sub. It isn't about cranking it. It's about integrating it with your other speakers to give them more headroom and remove the deep bass that can make them sound muddy. Going from running your speaks full range to running them in tandem with a sub with them crossed over to hand off bass duties will make your speakers sound SO much clearer, especially for multichannel audio, where receivers are utilizing the most power.

[kuntasensei]

This is just a guess, and might make no sense, or be wrong, but by decoding in the AVR it would seem any jitter in the LPCM stream could be eliminated. If true then it might sound a bit better.

True, except most HDMI 1.3a receivers use a data buffer/reclock to eliminate jitter via HDMI with LPCM... so the two are identical and just as "lossless". The only difference was with older receivers that would disable the distance/delay, level and crossover settings when sent LPCM because they didn't have enough DSP power. Not the case with his Onkyo, as setting it to Multichannel will still allow the proper delays, crossover settings and level trims to work. And in fact, decoding in the player can often be better than bitstreaming since many bitstreaming players can't mix in the audio from secondary audio tracks and special features.

As far as the audio quality, I'll put it to you this way... If you could measure a difference between the two delivery methods, you'd be the first.

[slowpolky]

Is this a serious question? The whole point of direct mode is that you can't do any processing to the signal. It's not direct anymore if you're using any type of processing.

the only reason I use direct mode is because none of the audio from the ps3 will be lost by unpackaging the data for processing twice .

If I want true hd from the ps3 then all the functions of my onkyo are useless so I probably would benift buying a bluray player . By feeding the receiver direct over hdmi 1.3 would give me the same quality of signal as the direct feed from the ps3 to the 607

This way it seems will give me back all the features I payed for when using the 607 .

[snow]

hmmm.... nothing

[Toolfan66]

hmmm.... Nothing

+1 ;)

[Mike LoManaco]

I am wondering if I should just go ahead and purchase a bluray player that doesnt tamper with the signal internally

Any suggestions?

Polky,

Did you understand my explanation of DIRECT and MULTICHANNEL and the fact that those are the two selections on the Onkyos that handle incoming PCM in terms of listening modes? Direct does not HAVE to be used -- but on my 605, Multichannel is the only other option for listening modes for "Multichannel PCM" signals.

There's been a debate on what to use for these multichannel PCM signals coming from Blu-ray players that are decoding the TrueHD internally and sending them out to a receiver or processor, Direct or Multichannel; from what I have been learning and hearing from others, Direct mode would eliminate any "processing" done by the receiver, so you won't get your speaker delays and levels, distances, bass management, etc. So Multichannel would be the correct selection...but it hasn't been confirmed.

[Toolfan66]

Mike I am sure he don't get it, Just go back and read any of his post's.
Better yet don't waste your time.


"Back to having a drink and jamming some tunes"

Peace out....

[slowpolky]

Listen guys multichannel shmultichannel. Its not the same as dts master or dolby LLz decoded in 1.3

[Mike LoManaco]

Mike I am sure he don't get it, Just go back and read any of his post's.
Better yet don't waste your time.


"Back to having a drink and jamming some tunes"

Peace out....

Okay...

Tool, is that message under your sig something you came up with, about Polky being on your ignore list?

[Mike LoManaco]

Its not the same as dts master or dolby LLz decoded in 1.3

What does this mean, exactly?

[nguyendot]

Sometimes I wonder if he asks things not for a real answer, but to emote some kind of awkward response from us. Then again that has been identified by numerous other forum members previously.

[comfortablycurt]

When it's running in Direct...the AVR won't be processing the signal at all. That's why it's called "Direct". It takes the signal directly from the source, and leaves it untouched through the whole path.

Use a different listening mode if you want the processing.

[slowpolky]

my late night volume optimization cant be engaged when using the ps3 during a bluray

[kuntasensei]

my late night volume optimization cant be engaged when using the ps3 during a bluray

As I said before, late night mode depends on receiving Dolby directly in the receiver because it depends on metadata encoded into the bitstream. However, you don't need to use the Dolby late night mode because your receiver has Audyssey Dynamic Volume. But if you're using DIRECT mode on your receiver, that's what you're getting - A DIRECT VERSION OF WHAT IS BEING SENT TO THE RECEIVER, WITH NO PROCESSING.

Multichannel mode, on the other hand, takes the incoming LPCM and still applies all of the internally set parameters such as speaker delays, level trims, crossovers, etc. through the receiver's DSP. It does NOT unpack the data again. It simply processes the lossless data it is given. That's why page 67 of your receiver's manual says:
"Multichannel
This mode is for use with PCM multichannel sources."

Change the listening mode to Multichannel, engage Audyssey Dynamic Volume. It does the same thing as late night mode. It's actually better than Dolby's implementation because Audyssey's research on the subject is far more current and it works in conjunction with Audyssey's Dynamic EQ.

And guess what? If you set it to Multichannel, YOU CAN APPLY DPL-IIZ or DPL-IIX PROCESSING ON TOP OF IT. Your manual says so on Page 65. Just hit the MOVIE, MUSIC, or GAME buttons after you've set the listening mode to Multichannel.

Reading the manual... Totally overrated, huh? ;)