Need help...Pioneer 1019 and elite 21txh

[keo19az]

I bought a Pioneer vsx-1019 receiver about 2 weeks ago. Sound quality is excellent and the amp seems powerful enough to last me a while. But....

The VSX-1019 does not have pre-outs for later amplification needs. The Elite VSX-21txh appears to have pre-outs but the picture is fuzzy on pioneers website so I cant make out if it is a full 7.1, 5.1 or stereo preout setup. It is only about $100 more for the elite and i only lose about 10 watts. 120wx7 for 1019 vs. 110x7 for elite 21txh. Seems kind of like a no-brainer. What kind of pre-outs would i need?

I am trying to find out if any of you guys either a) have the elite 21txh. b) have any thoughts on the elite 21txh. or c) can find out if the pre-outs would be sufficient for later amplification needs. I currently only have 5.1 setup, probably will not go 7.1 anytime soon.

Current:
Pioneer VSX-1019 Receiver
Polk R30 tower fronts
Polk R30 tower surrounds
Polk CS2 center
Polk SW 202 10" sub
Sony V5100 46" LCD

Upgrades in next year: (in order of importance)
Polk Monitor 50, 60 or 70 fronts
Polk Monitor 30 or 40 surrounds
PSW 110 or bigger sub

Thanks for you help,
Chris

[Marty913]

I bought a Pioneer vsx-1019 receiver about 2 weeks ago. Sound quality is excellent and the amp seems powerful enough to last me a while. But....

The VSX-1019 does not have pre-outs for later amplification needs. The Elite VSX-21txh appears to have pre-outs but the picture is fuzzy on pioneers website so I cant make out if it is a full 7.1, 5.1 or stereo preout setup. It is only about $100 more for the elite and i only lose about 10 watts. 120wx7 for 1019 vs. 110x7 for elite 21txh. Seems kind of like a no-brainer. What kind of pre-outs would i need?

I am trying to find out if any of you guys either a) have the elite 21txh. b) have any thoughts on the elite 21txh. or c) can find out if the pre-outs would be sufficient for later amplification needs. I currently only have 5.1 setup, probably will not go 7.1 anytime soon.

Current:
Pioneer VSX-1019 Receiver
Polk R30 tower fronts
Polk R30 tower surrounds
Polk CS2 center
Polk SW 202 10" sub
Sony V5100 46" LCD

Upgrades in next year: (in order of importance)
Polk Monitor 50, 60 or 70 fronts
Polk Monitor 30 or 40 surrounds
PSW 110 or bigger sub

Thanks for you help,
Chris

I don't have one but the Elite will solve the pre-out issue which I personally believe is a very good thing. The Elite has full 7.1 pre-outs. Also, I don't think you're probably going to give up any power. I read in one review (forget where) that the 1019 puts out closer to 90. My guess is the Elite will at least match that since the Elite line usually (at least in the past) has had a beefier power supply.

[keo19az]

yep, thats right. The 1019 puts out about 90 watts or so continuous, no less but may be a little more. And thanks for clarifying the Elite 21txh does output 7.1 via preouts.

Since I am a little fresh to how things are nowadays. Is 90 watts per channel enough for home theater viewing? I like it loud, or for a better term, clean and powerful sound. not super loud, but the action scenes should have the impact they deserve, but remain clean. I hate the sound of cranked components/speakers. I can hear their cries for help and it drives me nuts!! I usually run about -25 to -15 for movies, loud. And -33 to -25 for watching dvd's at normal volume. Some DVD's tend to be quieter, so that plays into it too.

What is the typical power of external amps and what is the purpose to doing it that way. If i were to be driving my future upgrades, listed above in my original post, will the 1019 with 90 watts per channel suffice? I looked at a few pioneer elite external amps and they only are 100 watts per channel and only 2 channels? Would you need many amps for a 5.1 or 7.1 system? i am just weighing the options at this point. i have till the 15th of august to return the 1019 and opt for the Elite if i choose to go that way.

Thanks,
Chris

[Marty913]

yep, thats right. The 1019 puts out about 90 watts or so continuous, no less but may be a little more. And thanks for clarifying the Elite 21txh does output 7.1 via preouts.

Since I am a little fresh to how things are nowadays. Is 90 watts per channel enough for home theater viewing? I like it loud, or for a better term, clean and powerful sound. not super loud, but the action scenes should have the impact they deserve, but remain clean. I hate the sound of cranked components/speakers. I can hear their cries for help and it drives me nuts!! I usually run about -25 to -15 for movies, loud. And -33 to -25 for watching dvd's at normal volume. Some DVD's tend to be quieter, so that plays into it too.

What is the typical power of external amps and what is the purpose to doing it that way. If i were to be driving my future upgrades, listed above in my original post, will the 1019 with 90 watts per channel suffice? I looked at a few pioneer elite external amps and they only are 100 watts per channel and only 2 channels? Would you need many amps for a 5.1 or 7.1 system? i am just weighing the options at this point. i have till the 15th of august to return the 1019 and opt for the Elite if i choose to go that way.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris,

Most members of the Club favor external amplification if not right away then as a potential upgrade path. You can find dozens of posts here in the forum about the shortcomings of receiver advertised statistics versus real world power. I don't know the real test bench power of the Pioneer but the speakers you are getting (and the upgrades later) are all pretty efficient and are not difficult loads to drive. My guess is they will play load enough without straining the receiver. I'm also willing to bet that eventually you will want more power (both real and reserve power).

The "how many watts" argument is also well-discussed here and the more you read the more you come to understand that watts aren't as important as current. This is especially true as the loads get more difficult (non 8 Ohm speakers, large or multiple drivers). Receivers usually use a shared power supply and circuitry with each channel drawing from the same power pool. It's really closer to a shared amplifier. External amp typically have a number of power supplies and physically separate amplifier cards. Typically people in a home theater (primarily) start with 3-channel or 5-channel amps. Even a 2-channel amp can supplement the amps in your receiver (if you have pre-outs). In other words, you could buy a 3-channel amp for the front of a 5.1 system, and use the receiver for the 2 surround speakers. Some buy a 5-channel amplifier and perhaps use the receiver for the surrounds or stay in a 5.1 system and don't use the receiver power at all. A lot of choices to slowly migrate to "separates". You need pre-outs to do any of it.

Typically, an external amplifier from a good company will deliver "real watts" or at least the advertised watts. There are many receivers rated at 100 watts that deliver far, far less in a 5 or 7 channel environment. One recently discussed 100 watt receiver delivers 100 watts into 2-channels but less than 50 watts into 5 and 37 into 7. It's that shared power supply thing. Unfortunately that is far more common than it is rare. A name brand amp will almost always deliver at least what it says.

There are dozens of companies that make quality external amps. I'm not saying Pioneer doesn't but that is definitely not their specialty. Common and respected amp brands would be Emotiva, Parasound, Rotel, Carver, Adcom, Sunfire, and there are more the Club members can recommend. The external amp does not have to be the same brand and rarely is.

They can come in a wide-range of wattage beginning as low as 80 and going up past 400. A range of 125 - 250 probably typical unless the speakers are very difficult. Opinions vary a lot but I don't think that's too far off. Remember, those are REAL watts continually delivered to all channels at typically less distortion. On top of that, there's usually reserve power (called Headroom) for musical peaks, action scenes, etc.)

Anyway, please don't take this as receiver bashing. With the right speakers, the right environment, and loud (but reasonable) listening levels a good receiver is more than enough for most home theaters. It certainly is the less-complicated and less expensive way to start. In fact, for most people it's the perfect place to start and probably all they will ever need. If the receiver has a set of pre-outs, all the better. That opens up more options down the road.

[keo19az]

Thanks Marty,
So it would seem that from you are saying. I will get "acceptable" quality from a receiver alone. However, for more power down the road having a set of pre-amp outputs would be beneficial. I may never go the route of separate amplifiers, but with no pre-outs its seems as though this is not possible.

I think i will wait for the new Elite line to be in stock, then depending on the price difference, go for the elite 21 instead of the 1019. It is supposed to be $699 from what i can gather, so that is only $190 more than the 1019 i currently have. Thanks for the explanation. I feel like I have just scratched the surface of this stuff. I better stop reading this board before I spend all of my money.

Thanks again,
Chris

[cnh]

Marty,

Is right...that receiver can power your speaker set. What I'd do if you wanted pre-outs and more power is to have searched for a Pioneer 1018--last years model was heavier, had more wattage and pre-outs!!

Pioneer like a number of others has downsized some of their 'current' offerings.

cnh

[keo19az]

Well I ended up with a Closeout Elite vsx-03txh from last year. It has everything I think I will need and 7.1 preouts for later. Thanks for all of the information. I didnt have very much time to research this one, but it comes with a 30 day guarantee so I can try it out. I should be happy for a while. ***as wife shakes her head***

Thanks,
Chris