Denon DL-160 vs. other mid-priced cartridges $400 and under.

[Dawgfish]

Hello all,

I have a Technics SL-1200 MK2 turntable with a Denon DL-160 cartridge. I am really enjoying this set-up and love the expansive sound-stage and dynamic sound the DL-160 produces. Overall I am very happy with it, but like most on here, I'm on a never ending quest to improve the sound on my system.

I was wondering if there were other cartidges out there in the $400 and under price range that had an expansive sound-stage and was dynamic like the DL-160, but with better detail in the highs (and maybe througout the frequency range) without being overly harsh. I love the warm sound of the cartridge, but I'm just curious if there were cartridges where I could gain resolution while still maintaining many of the pleasant qualities of the DL-160. Is such a cartidge out there in this price range, or would I have to spend a lot more than that to get the sound I'm describing above? Thanks in advance for your replies.

Steve

[thsmith]

What Phono stage are you using?

[madmax]

Just a thought, $3K is mid priced. Most carts run between $100 to $7500. ;)

Maybe look into a goldring cart, I hear a lot of people like them.

[Dawgfish]

I am using the phono stage on a Parasound P/FET-900II pre-amp.

[reeltrouble1]

I think the base line clearaudio aurum beta is near your price point. Dynavector also has a great cartridge at your budget. Anyway, I have heard both of them and would think they would meet your criteria.

RT1

[Dawgfish]

Thanks for the advice Reel Trouble1 and Madmax. I am going to look into the cartridges mentioned. I was actually looking at the Goldring 1044, but I here they can be a little "thin" sounding to some. Any thoughts or experience with this cartridge anyone?

[hearingimpared]

I had a Dynavector 10 x 5. Nice cartridge and right in your price range.

[Keiko]

I have a DL-160 also. Before deciding on it, I was also looking at the Audio Technica AT-440MLa. I've heard these offer some good bang for the buck. I may pick up one when they go on sale again. lpgear has them every so often for 100.00 IIRC. I need another cart for back-up.

[Dawgfish]

It looks like there are a couple of votes for Dynavector by trusted vinyl guros. I am seriuosly going to check this out.

Keiko, I was also considering the AT-440 before going with the DL-160. I spoke to this one gentlemen about cartidges for my SL-1200 during that selection process. He actually recommended the AT-440 over the DL-160 due to the SL-1200 having a tone arm that was medium in mass compared to some of the Rega, Clearaudio, etc. tone arms out there. He said the AT being a heavier cartridge was acuatlly a better match for the 1200 tone arm than the DL-160. I seriously considered going with the AT, but I kept on reading all of these glowing reviews of the 160 not only on this board, but all over the net. Overall, I am very happy with it. I'm just looking for a little more resolution.

[Keiko]

I have the SL-1210M5G. I found an interesting read on vinylengine awhile back on anti-skate adjustment. You can reference this thread and play around with it if you like. Just set aside some time when you start tweaking with this one. Once you hit it, you'll know. The "resolution" almost jumps out at you. I used my headphones as a tool and tweaked it using them and then listening on my speaker system. Use very small increments when doing this adjustment. You'll need to hit it precisely.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78335

[Dawgfish]

Keiko,

Thanks for the great link! I'm going to play around with that and see what I find. Who knows, I may end up not needing a new cartridge at all. I may have just been off on my setup after reading this.

Steve

[Keiko]

Your welcome Df. Let us know your results please.

[mhardy6647]

Just a thought, $3K is mid priced. Most carts run between $100 to $7500. ;)

Maybe look into a goldring cart, I hear a lot of people like them.

It would actually be interesting to compare the mean (average) price, the median price (price point at which 50% cost more and 50% cost less), and the mode (single most common price point); this would tell us something about how normally phono cartridge prices are distributed.

I suspect I know the answer... :-)

EDIT: On topic, I am not a fan of the sound of the Goldrings nor most A-T cartridges. Too thin, clinical, or analytical for my taste. I like "lush". I haven't heard a DL-160, but the venerable LOMC DL-103 certainly has "lush" in spades! What Grado is at the $400 price point? Might be worth considering. (N.B. the Grados are all moving iron cartridges, even though the moving coil cartridge was actually invented by Joe Grado).

[Dawgfish]

It would actually be interesting to compare the mean (average) price, the median price (price point at which 50% cost more and 50% cost less), and the mode (single most common price point); this would tell us something about how normally phono cartridge prices are distributed.

I suspect I know the answer... :-)

EDIT: On topic, I am not a fan of the sound of the Goldrings nor most A-T cartridges. Too thin, clinical, or analytical for my taste. I like "lush". I haven't heard a DL-160, but the venerable LOMC DL-103 certainly has "lush" in spades! What Grado is at the $400 price point? Might be worth considering. (N.B. the Grados are all moving iron cartridges, even though the moving coil cartridge was actually invented by Joe Grado).

I would definitely describe the DL-160 as being "lush" and frankly this is a good thing with me also. Overall, I am extremely happy with the performance of the DL-160. There is only one area where I would consider it lacking (and not much at that) and that is in the upper frequencies. I am an ex drummer and listen to a lot of jazz. I like to here a lot of detail and shimmer in the cymbals. I am getting fantastic, realistic tone with this cartridge for horns, bass, guitar, keyboards, and the actuall drum portion of the drumkit. I would like to get a little more detail with the cymbals. This is nit-picking I know.

What I am wondering is can a get the sound I am looking for by replacing the DL-160 with any other cartridge out there in the $400 range? This is all my current budget will allow. I'm not sure if I can get the sound I'm looking for that would be any better than what I'm getting with the DL-160 without spending way more than what my budget will allow. I don't want to sacrifice a "lush" sound for something that is more detailed, but in the end ends up being "sterile" and non-lifelike. I just want to add a little more high end detail while keeping the "lush" sound the DL-160 provides. I figured with the wealth of knowledge we have here on the board, I would enlist the advice of the many knowledgable members we have. I have gotten some great advice.

After reading the links Keiko supplied for set-up, I am not entirely positive my current turntable setup is correct in regards to antiskating force and VTA. I am confident on my alignment. I am going to try the setup advice supplied in the links and see if I get any more detail with a change in set-up. This may very well give me the upper freqauency detail I am looking for and I'm done.

Another option is I was thinking of trying one of Ben's Silver ICs on the turntable and see if this gives me the upper frequency detail I am looking for. If these tweeks don't do it, then I'll look at trying another cartridge.

mhardy 6647, probably the cartridge that I am most strongly looking at right now is the Grado Reference Platinum 1. It 's the lowest priced of the wood bodied Grado cartridge. It supposedly has that great, warm, lush sound that Grado is known for and is one sexy looking cartridge to boot. I am just wondering how the highs will perform on it. Anyone have any experience with this cartridge?

[mhardy6647]

Nope, but the two things you do need to be mindful of with Grados are the "Grado dance" and the possibility of hum problems. I suspect the HF will be more extended with the Grado. It'll be "musical". :-)

[lucky6789]

Fight to live, live to fight !

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[Keiko]

Fight to live, live to fight !

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[Dawgfish]

Just a quick update to this. I replaced my phono cable to one of Bens silver cables and low and behold, the high end detail increased immensely. It's not overly bright or harsh either and the overall warm tone of the DL-160 is still there. I am very happy with what I am hearing now. I still may try a different cartridge down the road just to see what kind a difference it may make, but for now I am extremely happy with what I'm hereing.

[mister pig]

Whenever you do change cartridges do consider the Dynavector 10 x 5. The Dynas one are one of the great values out there. If you are really gung ho, spring fro the 17D3. That is one awesome cart, and possibly the best value in analog.

Regards
Mister Pig

[erniejade]

Bens cables are fantastic especially for the $.

I had a goldring 1042 i HATED IT! To me the dl160 sounded better / cleaner / more detailed and was way less fussy on the setup.

[Dawgfish]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I have never heard a Dynavector cartridge yet, but I keep hereing great things about them. I wish I would have seen your post yesterday mister pig before The Needle Doctor's 10% off sale ended. That's what I get for getting all busy with work and not reading CP more ;-) Anyways how would you describe the two Dynavector's you mentioned sound? I'm looking for something on the warm side that is musical, but still has good detail.

Erniejade, in my conversations with folks about different cartridges, I keep hereing that the 1042 is very sterile sounding. I'm glad I asked some folks, because this was a cartridge I was seriously considering.

Im still very interested in the Grado Reference Platinum 1, but I'm going to have to seriously look at the Dynavectors. Also Kevin from KAB USA is strongly recommending the KAB Custom Stanton LE890. He says it would have the characteristics I'm looking for and it's about half of the price of the Grado to boot. Anybody have any experience with this cartridge? I have e-mailed and spoke with Kevin many times and he seems like a straight shooter who is not going to BS me just to get a sale.