The Polk LSi15: Receiver Speaker Settings: LARGE or SMALL?

[Bernal]

Q1: ➜ How Should I set the:

◊ Main speakers - LARGE or SMALL
◊ Subwoofer - SUBWOOFER + LEF (120HZ) or MAIN or BOTH
◊ Center - LARGE or SMALL
◊ Surround - LARGE or SMALL

Q2: ➜ Which setting is correct and also will give best sound?

✓ http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/
✓ http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/lsi/specs.php
✓ http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3494.asp

✍ Here is my system:⇓

01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's :D
03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
04) OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio / DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker) - 60 Hz.
07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker) 60 Hz.
10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker) [COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]60Hz[/COLOR].
11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN 12" :D (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS) 60Hz - LFE: 120Hz.

[leroyjr1]

With a good sub I'd say set your fronts to small crossed at 80hz. But if you do any two channel listening definately large without a sub sounds great.

I run my fronts large/ full range to help out with the mid bass

[vc69]

I run my front's large but I have a wimpy sub. Same reason as above.

[xcapri79]

This is like apples vs oranges.

The small setting is in reference to using an AVR with its own amp.
You gain headroom with the 80Hz setting crossover and this is the typical recommendation.
This is the optimized setting that works for most applications.

That doesn't necessarily apply when you use external amplification with plenty of headroom for full range speakers.
In that case, a large speaker setting ensures that your speakers get the full range that they were designed for.

The LSi15's are full range speakers that should be powered using good external amps.
On the AVR with pre-outs, they should be set to large.

Overall Frequency Response 22Hz - 27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 30Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz

[jimmydep]

Bernal, I have the same speakers as you with the exception of the sub I'm using A DSW-pro 600

With a Yamaha Pre/pro, and an Emotiva / sunfire amp, my setting are

Fronts- LSi-15's to large
Center- LSIC to small
Rears- LSiFX to small
LFE sub crossover to 60hz
Receiver set Sub + Mains (for 2 channel)

I've played with several combinations, I like this best.

LFE sub crossover at 80hz is my 2nd choice but a little too bass heavy, any higher and the bass is too disproportional.


Try different settings, see which YOU like best.

I'm learning that with the LSi15's, a minor change in placement can result in a big difference in sound........this is what this hobby is all about, trying different things.....the nice thing is, settings and speaker placement are FREEBIEES.

Have fun

Jimmy

[pearsall001]

Here's agreat article on the subject...http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...79/128214.html. Once you get past the fact that the LSi15 aren't close to being full range, you'll understand the article. For some reason we tend to throw the word "Fullrange" around a lot & the truth is there are very few true Fullrange speakers out there. Think very, very, large & expensive to fall into that category.

Play around with the settings & crossovers & let your ears decide. I'll bet the small setting crossed over at 60 or 80 is what you'll like. I know the Lsi15's sound very good without a sub but there's a whole lot you're missing not running a good sub with them. They're choking trying to act like a fullrange speaker.

[xcapri79]

Here's agreat article on the subject...http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...79/128214.html. Once you get past the fact that the LSi15 aren't close to being full range, you'll understand the article. For some reason we tend to throw the word "Fullrange" around a lot & the truth is there are very few true Fullrange speakers out there. Think very, very, large & expensive to fall into that category.

Play around with the settings & crossovers & let your ears decide. I'll bet the small setting crossed over at 60 or 80 is what you'll like. I know the Lsi15's sound very good without a sub but there's a whole lot you're missing not running a good sub with them. They're choking trying to act like a fullrange speaker.

Given the spec. listed below, please explain why the LSi15 isn't full range?
Overall Frequency Response 22Hz - 27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 30Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz

[danz1906]

Cross-over your speakers to 80hz for Movies and run your Fronts full range
on Music.

[BlueFox]

I have all 4 LSi15s set to large, as is the PSB Syncrony One Center. I do not use the LFE since I do not want the AVR filtering, and possibly degrading, the audio signal. The PSW1000 sub is run off the front pre-amp output. It is hard to describe how great this sounds. Sub integrates perfectly with LSi15s, and especially with BluRay audio, it is fantastic.

[apphd]

Given the spec. listed below, please explain why the LSi15 isn't full range?
Overall Frequency Response 22Hz - 27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 30Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz

Did you read the acticle linked, or many others on this subject?

One quote from this article:
"Very few speakers should actually use the "large" setting. Even most of the big, powered towers should not be used with the "large" setting because they can't produce these low frequencies (or they produce them without power and depth). What you should be thinking is that "large" means you have a truly full-range speaker; use "small" for everything else. If your speaker can't put out more than 100dB at 20 Hz, set it to "small." "

But like everything else in the audio world, and as has been said many times:
Let your ears decide for you.

[mantis]

Here's agreat article on the subject...http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...79/128214.html. Once you get past the fact that the LSi15 aren't close to being full range, you'll understand the article. For some reason we tend to throw the word "Fullrange" around a lot & the truth is there are very few true Fullrange speakers out there. Think very, very, large & expensive to fall into that category.

Play around with the settings & crossovers & let your ears decide. I'll bet the small setting crossed over at 60 or 80 is what you'll like. I know the Lsi15's sound very good without a sub but there's a whole lot you're missing not running a good sub with them. They're choking trying to act like a fullrange speaker.

Excellent advise and an excellent link. Most people fall for full range or large speakers for fronts. Your system will actually sound fuller and clearer with all speakers set to small. Get over the ego and have a badass system. You will enjoy it more.

[Toolfan66]

I fell for it, I really thought I should have them set to large, and kept it that way for a few. I noticed a big change in my HT setup, everything blended better with the settings set to small.

Take note to what is being said, these guys know their ****.

[Bernal]

Today update my Denon 4308Ci, and configure the speakers:

◊ Main speakers - LARGE,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 120Hz.

What is your opinion? I will listen ...

[xcapri79]

Did you read the acticle linked, or many others on this subject?

One quote from this article:
"If your speaker can't put out more than 100dB at 20 Hz, set it to "small." "

This sounds like an exaggeration.
How many Polk Audio subwoofers can actually do this?

For example
Overall Frequency Response
DSW microPRO 1000 22-200 Hz
DSW microPRO 2000 22-200 Hz
DSW Pro 400 25Hz - 160Hz
DSW Pro 500 23Hz - 160Hz
DSW Pro 600 20Hz - 160Hz

[McLoki]

I run mine as all small with an 80hz crossover. (no double bass)

Basically for home theater, you should only set your speakers to large if they have better bass output (goes lower and at a higher level) than your subwoofer. If it does, set the speaker to large and start saving for a better sub.

Michael

[megasat16]

Set LSi15 to Large and Sub output to Both! Experiment Subwoofer and LFE Crossover Frequency between 60-80Hz and play with it. Use the best setting that works well in your room.

If your sub has adjustable Low Pass Filter, set it a bit more than 80Hz (such as 90Hz or 100Hz).

[comfortablycurt]

I've went back and forth between both methods several times...with several pairs of speakers.

For HT usage...it's basically always going to sound better with the fronts set to small. I've got all of my speakers crossed over at 80 hz, with the subs LPF set at 120 hz...blends beautifully. With the fronts set to large it can add a huge over emphasis in the bass regions.

[mantis]

Today update my Denon 4308Ci, and configure the speakers:

◊ Main speakers - LARGE,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 120Hz.

What is your opinion? I will listen ...

Set the LFE out to 60hz , set the fronts to small 60hz. I would rather you set everything to 80hz but it will work good at 60 2. I had the same speaker setup and went back and forth with 60hz and 80hz. They both work very well but I remember ending up at 80hz for a final.

[danz1906]

Set the LFE out to 60hz , set the fronts to small 60hz. I would rather you set everything to 80hz but it will work good at 60 2. I had the same speaker setup and went back and forth with 60hz and 80hz. They both work very well but I remember ending up at 80hz for a final.

Agreed, 80hz always seem to work for me.

[McLoki]

Set the LFE out to 60hz , set the fronts to small 60hz. I would rather you set everything to 80hz but it will work good at 60 2. I had the same speaker setup and went back and forth with 60hz and 80hz. They both work very well but I remember ending up at 80hz for a final.

I agree with everything except setting the LFE at 60hz. It should be set at 120hz (or higher) always. There is information contained in the LFE channel up to 120hz. (that if truncated will not get directed anywhere else while you have a sub in the system.)

Michael

[apphd]

This sounds like an exaggeration.
How many Polk Audio subwoofers can actually do this?

For example
Overall Frequency Response
DSW microPRO 1000 22-200 Hz
DSW microPRO 2000 22-200 Hz
DSW Pro 400 25Hz - 160Hz
DSW Pro 500 23Hz - 160Hz
DSW Pro 600 20Hz - 160Hz

I think the bigger question is how many main/tower speakers can put out <30 Hz with any authority. Also this is one of the reasons (deserving or not) that Polk subs were never a favorite for many people.

Remember we are talking HT, and as you see from many posts LSi 15 owners do indeed prefer the large setting. The article and others have explained why, on average it should be small, but..... different rooms, different gear, different ears, different taste.......

2 ch/music is much different, for many many years 90% of home users relied on nothing more than 2 speakers, and were very very happy, but bass has always been one of the more difficult to do well.

[pearsall001]

Given the spec. listed below, please explain why the LSi15 isn't full range?
Overall Frequency Response 22Hz - 27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 30Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz

Small driver surface area, lack of cabinet air volumn, most likely a lack of power...to produce deep, powerfull bass you need good clean power, & lots of it. Tweeter, mid-bass & bass drivers all competing within the same cabinet. Crossover points muck things up a bit. You just can't expect everything crammed into a single box to do all things properly. Laws of physics & science. The same as the AVR vs separates argument...the AVR has everything crammed into a single box, so one can expect that something has to give. Whereas separates are designed for a single purpose only. And specs are easy to fudge according to what the manufacture wants them to say. Do alot of AVR & power amp ratings come to mind....eek!!!!

[mantis]

I agree with everything except setting the LFE at 60hz. It should be set at 120hz (or higher) always. There is information contained in the LFE channel up to 120hz. (that if truncated will not get directed anywhere else while you have a sub in the system.)

Michael

I did not know that. Can you post in detail this info or a link I can go read? I thought the 81hz and higher always went to the main channels for reproduction. I never thought to send those signals to a subwoofer. Interesting , but wouldn't 81hz to 120hz equate to localization?
Thanks,

[xcapri79]

Overall Frequency Response 22Hz - 27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 30Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz

Small driver surface area, lack of cabinet air volumn, most likely a lack of power...to produce deep, powerfull bass you need good clean power, & lots of it. Tweeter, mid-bass & bass drivers all competing within the same cabinet. Crossover points muck things up a bit. You just can't expect everything crammed into a single box to do all things properly. Laws of physics & science. The same as the AVR vs separates argument...the AVR has everything crammed into a single box, so one can expect that something has to give. Whereas separates are designed for a single purpose only. And specs are easy to fudge according to what the manufacture wants them to say. Do alot of AVR & power amp ratings come to mind....eek!!!!

I quoted the LSi15 specs. from Polk Audio.
Are you saying that Polk Audio is fudging their specs????
The point I made is that LSi15's are powered by separate amps with plenty of power. I see no reason to set them to small in that case. Recommendations that apply to AVR using the built-in amps would not necessarily be the same vs separates. The THX recommendation to set all speakers to small with an 80Hz crossover doesn't always apply.

Remember the topic here is the Polk Audio LSi15 and not everything else.

[McLoki]

I did not know that. Can you post in detail this info or a link I can go read? I thought the 81hz and higher always went to the main channels for reproduction. I never thought to send those signals to a subwoofer. Interesting , but wouldn't 81hz to 120hz equate to localization?
Thanks,

Sure - easy to get confused on it. (and remember I said - if you have a subwoofer in your system - if you have sub set to off or no and fronts set to large - I belive the LFE channel IS redirected to the fronts. If sub is set to on though (with no sub hooked up) and all speakers set to large - you will be missing quite a bit of bass in many movies. (since the LFE channel will not go anywhere))...

Here is an article in UltimateAVmag. "Bass Management and the LFE Channel"

Here is something from Secrets (back when they actually did decent reporting..) "The Misunderstood 0.1 LFE Channel in 5.1 Digital Surround Sound"

And here is an article from Dolby explaining the LFE channel

That should be enough to give you ideas of what else to search on. :)

Happy Reading.

Michael

[mantis]

Sure - easy to get confused on it. (and remember I said - if you have a subwoofer in your system - if you have sub set to off or no and fronts set to large - I belive the LFE channel IS redirected to the fronts. If sub is set to on though (with no sub hooked up) and all speakers set to large - you will be missing quite a bit of bass in many movies. (since the LFE channel will not go anywhere))...

Here is an article in UltimateAVmag. "Bass Management and the LFE Channel"

Here is something from Secrets (back when they actually did decent reporting..) "The Misunderstood 0.1 LFE Channel in 5.1 Digital Surround Sound"

And here is an article from Dolby explaining the LFE channel

That should be enough to give you ideas of what else to search on. :)

Happy Reading.

Michael

Cool thanks, I'm getting my read on.

[Bernal]

I agree with everything except setting the LFE at 60hz. It should be set at 120hz (or higher) always. There is information contained in the LFE channel up to 120hz. (that if truncated will not get directed anywhere else while you have a sub in the system.)

Michael

Sure - easy to get confused on it. (and remember I said - if you have a subwoofer in your system - if you have sub set to off or no and fronts set to large - I belive the LFE channel IS redirected to the fronts. If sub is set to on though (with no sub hooked up) and all speakers set to large - you will be missing quite a bit of bass in many movies. (since the LFE channel will not go anywhere))...

Here is an article in UltimateAVmag. "Bass Management and the LFE Channel"

Here is something from Secrets (back when they actually did decent reporting..) "The Misunderstood 0.1 LFE Channel in 5.1 Digital Surround Sound"

And here is an article from Dolby explaining the LFE channel

That should be enough to give you ideas of what else to search on. :)

Happy Reading.

Michael

Hi,
Excellent information :). The theme of LFE channel was initially difficult. There is much confusion with the crossing of the subwoofer.

✓ In his opinion, go well with my setup:

◊ Main speakers - LARGE,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 120Hz.

;)

✍ Here is my system:⇓

01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
04) OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio / DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker),
07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker),
10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker).
11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN 12" (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS).

[pearsall001]

I quoted the LSi15 specs. from Polk Audio.
Are you saying that Polk Audio is fudging their specs????
The point I made is that LSi15's are powered by separate amps with plenty of power. I see no reason to set them to small in that case. Recommendations that apply to AVR using the built-in amps would not necessarily be the same vs separates. The THX recommendation to set all speakers to small with an 80Hz crossover doesn't always apply.

Remember the topic here is the Polk Audio LSi15 and not everything else.

If you honestly believe that the 15's are capable of "Real" fullrange performance then by all means enjoy! The only thing that matters in this crazy hobby is what makes sense to you. Bottom line...enjoy the music!!!

[megasat16]

For THX system, LFE shouldn't be set too high. LFE channel has brick wall filter of 120Hz but bass over 80Hz is starting to be directional and I think some people can hear where it's coming from.

Also, male voices can be down to 80Hz-120Hz region and your sub will be playing human voices if the LFE channel has these voices encoded accidentally (though not very likely).

Setting LFE to 120Hz ensure all bass recorded in LFE will be played though your sub but THX standard calls for setting it to 80Hz.

Anyway, play with it and use what is best in your room.

[Bernal]

I did not know that. Can you post in detail this info or a link I can go read? I thought the 81hz and higher always went to the main channels for reproduction. I never thought to send those signals to a subwoofer. Interesting , but wouldn't 81hz to 120hz equate to localization?
Thanks,

What is the LFE (.1) Channel?:
http://www.genelecusa.com/faq/multichannel/lfe-channel/