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  1. #1

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    Default Adcom vs Parasound vs Emotiva vs Sunfire vs Outlaw?

    What's the best overall amp on the market for best bang for the buck for HT? I have a 7.1 surround sound system that I use primarily for tv/sports, movies/dvd/bluray. I'm currently driving my Polk's with a Pioneer Elite SC-05 reciever and Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 400 7.1. I am reading more and more on this forum and on other website forums that the Sunfire amps don't give as much punch and clarity as other amps and should I sell my Sunfire for any one of the amps above to get a better sound for HT? I'm into realism, clarity, accuracy in sound detail when I watch tv-football, baseball, hockey and movies/dvd/bluray and to encompass myself and the room in the sound like I am in the movie and inside a sports stadium.


    My home theater setup:

    Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro-111fd plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC-05 reciever
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 400 7.1
    Oppo bdp-83
    Balanced Power Technology BP-3.5 Signature Plus power conditioner

    Polk RTi A9 front floor tower speakers L/R
    Polk CSi A6 center speaker
    Polk FXi A6 side speakers
    Polk RTi A9 rear speakers
    SVS PB12 Ultra sub

  2. #2

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    The way you have it listed is pretty accurate. I did a shootout between the Adcom and sunfire. The Adcom was better all around. I recommend get the older series. The 7500 is a great HT/music amp on the cheap. If you have read my posts you know a watt is not a watt is not a watt.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  3. #3

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    If you decide to sell that Sunfire, I call first dibs.:)
    I would not part with a Signature series for anything if I were you.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  4. #4

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    I'm reading how the bi-polar amps are superior to the newer style amps. Is that just for 2 speaker front sound for music or is it also for 7.1 surround sound HT too? Has Sunfire jumped on the bandwagon yet giving up on bi-polar design amps? I hope not!

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    The way you have it listed is pretty accurate. I did a shootout between the Adcom and sunfire. The Adcom was better all around. I recommend get the older series. The 7500 is a great HT/music amp on the cheap. If you have read my posts you know a watt is not a watt is not a watt.
    Ben
    I hardly call 20 minutes worth of listening a "shoot-out"...

    Toss the whole sunfire receiver idea. Some like sunfire, some don't. I personally don't. The 400wpc at 4ohms (5x200@8ohm)is at clipping, and not all channels driven. I had a sunfire 5x400wpc at 4ohm amp, and it did not last 20 minutes in my rig before I packed it and put it back up for sale.
    It would appear that you chose the wrong version to do the job. If you got your hands on the 7x400@8ohm, I am certain you would have been more than happy with it.

    As has been said several hundred times here, synergy is a bitch, and it is entirely plausible that your other gear just did not mesh well with the Sunfire.
    There are entirely to many folks here that love these things for you to come out and say they are no good, and then declare your word to be gospel on the issue.

    My advice to anyone is to get your own ears on a piece of gear and try it for yourself, hopefully for at least a couple weeks before you decide whether or not it is to your liking. Twenty minutes is not enough time to make a descision about what's for dinner, much less audio.
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 10-01-2009 at 05:29 PM.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  6. #6

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    I'm a fool but Emotiva is what i'd be getting.

    Side note: I would switch your FXiA6's to rear surround and put the RTiA9's on side duty, If you have the room anyways....

    just my $0.02 :o
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

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    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

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    I agree with Ben on the Adcom, but bang for the buck New with a Warranty and great CS, My vote is the Emotiva XPA-5 with your setup Let it run your fronts,center and since your running A9's on the rear I would run those from it as well, and let the SC-05 power the the FXi A6's.

    Very nice setup by the way for HT.. My setup is almost just like yours. I have the FXi A6's as my rears and I am running the SC-07 with the Emotiva XPA-3.

    Again very nice,

    Larry.

  8. #8

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    Mosfets are great amps too. It depends mostly on the input, and VA stage of the amp. The outputs don't have as much of an effect as the other two. One of Adcom's best amps is mosfet driven(GFA-5802). If an amp weighs 50lbs for a 2 channel 30wpc how do you think a 5 channel can put out 400x5 and weigh less? Big caps and transformers win.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  9. #9

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    Again John you are an idiot. Have you ever tested both side by side? If it was that disappointing that quick... I was warned nicely about my upgrade to sunfire. I didn't listen.
    Again STFU John.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    I hardly call 20 minutes worth of listening a "shoot-out"...





    As has been said several hundred times here, synergy is a bitch, and it is entirely plausible that your other gear just did not mesh well with the Sunfire.
    There are entirely to many folks here that love these things for you to come out and say they are no good, and then declare your word to be gospel on the issue.

    .

    John chill.... Where is Ben declaring his word gospel??? he also has a right to his opinon as do you. put the gloves down brother...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    The outputs don't have as much of an effect as the other two.
    There might be those that disagree with that viewpoint.;)

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by sTiLlLeArNiNg View Post
    I'm a fool but Emotiva is what i'd be getting.

    Side note: I would switch your FXiA6's to rear surround and put the RTiA9's on side duty, If you have the room anyways....

    just my $0.02 :o
    All the advice and recommendations I have got from Polk and others is to use the front tower speakers as the front tower speakers and FXi's for sides and RTi A3's for rears because of the di-pole/bi-pole affect. The FXi A6's you can switch it to Bi-pole or di-pole and I was wondering for side speakers which option should it be set at as well?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    The way you have it listed is pretty accurate. I did a shootout between the Adcom and sunfire. The Adcom was better all around. I recommend get the older series. The 7500 is a great HT/music amp on the cheap. If you have read my posts you know a watt is not a watt is not a watt.
    Ben
    I agree. Couldn't be happier with my GFA-7000 for bang for the buck. I also agree that the way the amps are listed in the subject would be my order of preferrence.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3

    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Again John you are an idiot. Have you ever tested both side by side? If it was that disappointing that quick... I was warned nicely about my upgrade to sunfire. I didn't listen.
    Again STFU John.
    Ben
    I have heard both actually, and that is why I chose the one that I have. You have tried how many Sunfire's? There are quite a few Carver's that I would not buy as well Ben, so I am far from a fanboy. My next amp will be a Mcintosh MC205, but my Sunfire will always have a place in my HT rack:)

    Please do me a favor and lighten up.

    Cheers!

    John
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOOLFORLIFEFAN View Post
    I agree with Ben on the Adcom, but bang for the buck New with a Warranty and great CS, My vote is the Emotiva XPA-5 with your setup Let it run your fronts,center and since your running A9's on the rear I would run those from it as well, and let the SC-05 power the the FXi A6's.

    Very nice setup by the way for HT.. My setup is almost just like yours. I have the FXi A6's as my rears and I am running the SC-07 with the Emotiva XPA-3.

    Again very nice,

    Larry.
    I'm kind of confussed, I didn't understand how you posted that and where my speakers should be and how I should have it wired.

    I had someone set up my system. He wired all speakers through the reciever and amp. My home theater system is entirely wired through HDMI, all HDMI setup. It is a centrually configered system, all sources connected to the reciever first, then a single HDMI wire going out of the reciever into the plasma tv.

    If I were to power just the FXi A6 sides with the Pioneer reciever only will it give me better sound than powering all speakers through the reciever? Will I still get all the latest sounds from Dolby True HD, DTS Master Audio through bitstream when watching movies through all 7 speakers if the Pioneer is only powering the sides? The Pioneer reciever decodes all the latest sounds.

  16. #16

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    Shut up John. Read my response in the other thread.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by GV#27 View Post
    There might be those that disagree with that viewpoint.;)
    Are we talking tubes?
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOOLFORLIFEFAN View Post
    I agree with Ben on the Adcom, but bang for the buck New with a Warranty and great CS, My vote is the Emotiva XPA-5 with your setup Let it run your fronts,center and since your running A9's on the rear I would run those from it as well, and let the SC-05 power the the FXi A6's.

    Very nice setup by the way for HT.. My setup is almost just like yours. I have the FXi A6's as my rears and I am running the SC-07 with the Emotiva XPA-3.

    Again very nice,

    Larry.
    Agreed. The XPA-5 offers excellent value (if buying new). The others on the list, may be better if found at a good used price. I really like my XPA-5 and have noticed a great improvemnt in dynamics. The speakers seem more lively with the extra juice as compared to the receiver only.

  19. #19

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    You are doing all of this reading & allowing your choice of the Sunfire to come into doubt. The real question is Up until you did all of this reading were/are you HAPPY with the Sunfire. If so, then I certainly wouldn't let what you are reading from other who hear things DIFFERENTLY from you sway you into getting rid of an amp that has more than enough power to drive just about any speakers including yours to their full potential.

    Otherwise keep reading and questioning your choice. Or maybe you are simply looking for an excuse to spend more money on a new toy.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

  20. #20

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    Hey +1 to my sunfire.
    I compared the rotel RMB 1095 to my TGA 5200 sunfire.

    I kept the sunfire.
    done.
    never tried none of the other amps - sorry. and I won't do it either as I am very happy with my sunfire.
    Current HT setup
    Mains: B&W 804s
    Center: Polk CSi5
    Surround: Polk FXi3
    Sub: Velodyne DLS-3750R
    Receiver: Pioneer SC-07
    Amplifier: Sunfire TGA5200
    TV: Sony KDS60A2020
    DBP: Sony DBP-S350
    CDP: Pioneer DV-48AV
    Interconnect cables: SignalCable analog II
    speaker cables: SignalCable Ultra Speaker Cables Bi-wire

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Are we talking tubes?
    Ben
    Type of gain device and class of operation of the output stage,ie A,A/B, D etc.
    Last edited by GV#27; 10-01-2009 at 06:54 PM.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by GV#27 View Post
    Type of gain device and class of operation of the output stage,ie A,A/B, D etc.
    I gotcha. I am a fan of A A/B. Never had me ears on a good D;)
    Take care.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

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    I liked my Outlaw 7700 much more than the Sunfire that was 5x200 @8ohms...

    So I would put the Outlaw amp before the Sunfire, but that was me, and that was on LSis, not RTis...
    HT: Ninja Master LSi9s, Ninja Master LSiC, Slightly Modded LSiFXs, Modded LSi7s, Outlaw LFM-1 EX and Polk PSW125
    Outlaw 970 Preamp, Outlaw 7700 Amp, Velodyne SMS-1, Oppo BDP-83,
    2 APC H-15s and a Panamax 5400 for good measure ;)
    Stereo: DIY Alix Music Server, DODD Audio Battery Tube Buffer, Modded DAC-60 and MF V-Link (for now), DIY Silver ICs, Battery Powered Class D SDS-254 Amp, and GR-Research N2X Speakers

  24. #24

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    Your next Logical and Upgrade Path is Parasound!

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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalvideo View Post
    I'm kind of confussed, I didn't understand how you posted that and where my speakers should be and how I should have it wired.

    I had someone set up my system. He wired all speakers through the reciever and amp. My home theater system is entirely wired through HDMI, all HDMI setup. It is a centrually configered system, all sources connected to the reciever first, then a single HDMI wire going out of the reciever into the plasma tv.

    If I were to power just the FXi A6 sides with the Pioneer reciever only will it give me better sound than powering all speakers through the reciever? Will I still get all the latest sounds from Dolby True HD, DTS Master Audio through bitstream when watching movies through all 7 speakers if the Pioneer is only powering the sides? The Pioneer reciever decodes all the latest sounds.
    Yes you will get better sound as your taking the load off the reciever. and yes you will still get the latest sounds from Dolby True HD, DTS Master Audio through bitstream when watching movies through all 7 speakers if the Pioneer is only powering the sides. Your front stage will come to life (fronts and center) with the receiver you have (Fantastic one by the way) you could by all means go with a 3 channel amp if you wanted to.

    If you are running the sunfire then you have the sunfire already taking a load off the receiver. The amp is connected to the receiver preouts to pass the sound to the amp to the speakers.

    I have to agree if you have and are running the sunfire If I was you consider your setup done. It should be sounding fantastic, if not look and getting some good IC's for your amp and receiver, not sure what you are running but good IC's will help as well as good speaker wire at least for the fronts and center speakers to start with.

    What type of interconnects and speaker wire are you running?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    The way you have it listed is pretty accurate. I did a shootout between the Adcom and sunfire. The Adcom was better all around. I recommend get the older series. The 7500 is a great HT/music amp on the cheap. If you have read my posts you know a watt is not a watt is not a watt.
    Ben
    I owned a pair of Sunfire 5x200W and the grandTheater II back in the 80s. My FR/FL speakers were the Martin Logan SL3 , SL/SR were the Aerius I, the center was the Logos. I have played these signature Sunfireamp @ reference level with 5 of these ML electrostat speakers for so many years and the never clipped on me. Maybe the new Sunfire amps you used are designed differently. Smooth, open and no heat and can be stable down to 2 oh:Dm load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    The way you have it listed is pretty accurate. I did a shootout between the Adcom and sunfire. The Adcom was better all around. I recommend get the older series. The 7500 is a great HT/music amp on the cheap. If you have read my posts you know a watt is not a watt is not a watt.
    Ben
    Ben, you are right though. Bob Carver amps normally suck in term of distortion at high level and the spec is overly overblown. The signature is nice though in term of smooth and litlle bit tube like. The Adcom GFA555 is the one I regret selling due to the loud " thump" when turn on but it 's only second the the Krell KAV250 in term of airy and punch. The GFA555 will drive the hell out of the Martin Logan sl3, nearly as good as the Kav 250. I cannot speaker for the new generation of the Adcom since I have no experiences with them.

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    I'd keep what you have, you really just want an excuse to upgrade.

    There's nothing in your current setup that isn't being properly driven with the Sunfire. If you can't help yourself, get another 2CH Sunfire and run the RTiA9 L&R.
    Last edited by dorokusai; 10-02-2009 at 12:48 AM.

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    RTI a9's are serious overkill as rears

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    RTI a9's are serious overkill as rears
    I'm thinking he typo-ed that in the first post, as later he referred to them as RTiA3's

    Quote Originally Posted by digitalvideo View Post
    All the advice and recommendations I have got from Polk and others is to use the front tower speakers as the front tower speakers and FXi's for sides and RTi A3's for rears because of the di-pole/bi-pole affect. ...
    ____________________
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    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 , SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
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