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  1. #1

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    Default New receiver, but have a question

    ------ Background Info ------
    So I picked up a Pioneer vsx-819 at Best Buy the other night. It's not super high end (okay it's not even remotely close to high end), but they had a good price on an open box and I had a gift card to burn, so figured what the hell.

    I picked up a pair of RTi10 for fronts a couple weeks ago, have some surrounds around here somewhere and will be picking up a CSi5 soon. I've decided that I'm going to move the LSi7 and HK receiver that's in there currently to my bedroom for a second 2 channel setup, and have decided to go back to a surround setup in the living room.

    I wouldn't bother hooking my LSi up to this receiver, but it actually sounds pretty decent with the RTi setup, especially in a medium sized room. I'm still tweaking some things, but I've got it mostly hooked up and have run into a snag and have a question.

    ------ The Question ------
    I'm using HDMI connections from my cable box, HD DVD Player, and the PS3 all to this receiver, and then an HDMI to DVI cable from the receiver to my Toshiba TV (the TV only has DVI, no HDMI ports).

    So I get everything hooked up, video looks good, but no sound. I spend about an hour troubleshooting before I figure out what's going on. In order to get sound from an input using HDMI, I have to have a 'HDMI Only' path all the way from the source through the receiver to the TV, meaning I need a TV with an HDMI input. I tested this with a couple of the other TVs in the house that DO have HDMI.

    When I plug into a TV with HDMI, it works fine, but when I go to one with DVI I get no sound. I'm not real crazy about replacing that TV because it's a RPTV and still has a better picture than anything else out there (that I can afford anyway). So, that leaves me with 3 questions:

    1 - Do you guys think this is an issue with this model of receiver, or is that just how the technology works in general? If there are receivers out there that can do what I want, then I may consider one of those over this one.
    2 - Any ideas on a way to get around it without replacing my TV?
    3 - This one is more of a clarification, but as a workaround right now I'm using the optical connections for audio, with those I am NOT going to get the lossless audio, correct?

    Thanks
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  2. #2

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    Default

    I'm guessing HDMI to DVI is probably the problem...maybe it's affected by the HDCP...i DON'T think early DVIs have that but all later HDMI MUST have compatible ins/outs for them to work?

    High bandwidth Digital Content Protection

    What is DVI?

    DVI was created by the Digital Display Working Group, and stands for Digital Visual Interface. It is an older digital interface that has all but been replaced by HDMI in televisions so I won't spend a lot of time on DVI/HDCP. Just know that if you have a HDTV with a DVI input then HDCP could become an issue at some point for you if it hasn't already.

    That sounds like it may be your problem...handshake...between a HDCP and a non-HDCP?

    Yeah--no lossless with a toslink--only HDMI or multi-channel ins if your BDP HAS DECODING AND 5.1 OR MORE OUTS TO THE PIONEER ANALOG INS.

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 11-30-2009 at 11:01 AM.

  3. #3

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    Default

    Yes, I know hdmi to dvi is my problem. So is it your thinking that I'd have this regardless of which receiver I use?
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  4. #4

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    Default

    My mistake..you are getting a picture via HDMI to DVI...yes...so both are HDCP compliant.

    DVI passes no audio ONLY VIDEO signals so any HDMI receiver would behave as yours does...you have to have a BDP that decodes HD-lossless and set it to multi-analog out to the Pioneer for your lossless sound and you'd be fine

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 11-30-2009 at 11:27 AM.

  5. #5

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    Default

    Very strainge problem. Never heard of that happening.

    The only thing I can think of is that the AVR does not have a true switching capability and needs the handshake from the TV for the source to work correctly. The AVR is just passing the signal on. I don't know much about HDMI but that is what it is sounding like to me what is happening.
    Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t

  6. #6

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    Are there any menus for the Pioneer HDMI...that say something like DO NOT SEND SOUND TO HDMI OUT.

    It occurs to me that this IS an option on some AVRs....that would solve your problem...if it is possible to keep the sound going to the Pioneer and the Video to the DVI on the TV then that would work...

    Since I don't know the menus on the 819 I couldn't say...but this issue...now that I think about it...has come up before.

    If someone else knows....this model...please step up!



    cnh

  7. #7

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    Default

    I have pretty much the same setup with my TV only accepting DVI & Componet. I have my Opo BDP-83 player hooked up using a HDMI to DVI cable for the picture. For audio I'm running 5.1 analog cables from the Oppo to my receiver. Cable box is using componet hookup. Great picture all the way around with awesome audio from the Oppo. I think you still need to hookup all componets either with analog or digital cables for the audio.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
    Panny 65" 3D Plasma
    Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A3010 AVR
    D>SONIC M2-600M mono's / mains
    Rotel RMB-1095 / 5 channel amp
    Rotel RMB-1075 / 5 channel amp
    TEAC UD - 501 DAC
    Oppo BDP-93
    SONOS System
    KEF Q900 / mains
    KEF Q600 / center
    KEF Q800 / surrounds
    KEF Q100 / rear surr.
    Def Tech ProMonitor 1000 / front & rear presence
    Velodyne SPL-1200R subs / dual pair
    DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 sub EQ
    Equitech Balanced Power Son of Q 1.5R
    Extensive room treatments

  8. #8

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    There is not an option for it. There is some fine print in the manual that states basically what I found, I'd you're connecting to a tv with dvi then the receiver won't play audio through the hdmi, you need to use a optical or coax digital cable.

    The main question I had is is this a limitation of this receiver, or of all receivers with hdmi?
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  9. #9

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    Default

    My receiver will not allow me to hook up audio through HDMI and video through Component at the same time. Has to be all HDMI or no HDMI. Not the exact same scenario, as you are using HDMI out but with an adapter to DVI, but somewhat similar.

    I now need to find a way to run HDMI or Cat5 cable through my walls / attic in order to get everything HDMI. I hate not getting the newest audio formats and upconversion of my players through the component / optical route.

    Good luck!

  10. #10

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    Default

    So does anyone here have the same setup that I have, but with a different receiver? I'm wondering if anyone has a HDMI receiver but a TV with DVI, and if so do you get sound via the HDMI on your receiver?

    I'm still trying to figure out if its the technology, or this AVR that's the issue - don't want to bother with trying another AVR if that's not going to fix anything because I'm otherwise happy with this unit.
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  11. #11

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    I'm pretty sure if your TV has a DVI connection then you're out of luck trying to get audio thru a HDMI/DVI combo cable. It's not your receiver, it's technology. HDMI needs to talk to the other componets via the cable. It won't talk thru DVI.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
    Panny 65" 3D Plasma
    Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A3010 AVR
    D>SONIC M2-600M mono's / mains
    Rotel RMB-1095 / 5 channel amp
    Rotel RMB-1075 / 5 channel amp
    TEAC UD - 501 DAC
    Oppo BDP-93
    SONOS System
    KEF Q900 / mains
    KEF Q600 / center
    KEF Q800 / surrounds
    KEF Q100 / rear surr.
    Def Tech ProMonitor 1000 / front & rear presence
    Velodyne SPL-1200R subs / dual pair
    DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 sub EQ
    Equitech Balanced Power Son of Q 1.5R
    Extensive room treatments

  12. #12

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    Just splurge and replace that old Toshiba. If you think you can't get better picture quality for a reasonable price, you are wrong. I had the same Tosh set in a 50" and it was easily outmatched by my '07 model year Panny Plasma and my '08 year Sony SXRD. Unfortunately, Sony quit making SXRD, but Panny Plasmas have only gotten better and cheaper. I saw recent deals for 58" Panny Plasmas for only $1500 and I can virtually guarantee it would have better pic quality than that Tosh H93 set.
    Last edited by billbillw; 12-01-2009 at 09:43 AM.

  13. #13

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    Alright, I'm a little confused. Are you saying you don't have any sound to your TV or to the speakers hooked up to the receiver? I can understand if there is no sound to the TV, but if you have no sound coming through the speakers hooked up to the receiver, that would be a problem. Maybe I am just having problems wrapping my brain around this early this morning.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by edbert View Post
    Alright, I'm a little confused. Are you saying you don't have any sound to your TV or to the speakers hooked up to the receiver? I can understand if there is no sound to the TV, but if you have no sound coming through the speakers hooked up to the receiver, that would be a problem. Maybe I am just having problems wrapping my brain around this early this morning.
    The problem is that HDMI can sense what is on the other end and it will not send a signal if it thinks the device cannot handle it. In this case, the device at the end is a DVI equipped TV. DVI cannot transfer audio like HDMI. When the HDMI handshake takes place, the receiver detects it as a non-audio device. The DVD/Bluray player also sees this handshake and it disables audio from the HDMI output.

    The way some receivers work is to have a feature that eliminates HDMI audio from the output (ie: it doesn't send audio to the TV), so the audio chain ends at the receiver. I cannot say for sure if this would help the OP because I got rid of my DVI equipped TV long before I had an HDMI receiver. I'm sure there are some people over at AVSforum who have this issue and could probably clear it up.

  15. #15

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    I've had one of the Panasonic plasma sets in the house, and in fact have the 42" in the bedroom, but the picture is not as good as my Toshiba set. The only TV I've seen that compares to my current TV is the high end Pioneer Kuro set, and I'm not wanting to spend 2K on a TV right now. The LED TVs are also nice, but again I'm looking at 2500 for a 55", which is still smaller than my 57H93.

    And to clarify, yes the problem is that I'm not getting sound through the receiver. I understand that DVI does not carry sound, and wouldn't expect to get sound from the TV, but was hoping to get sound through the receiver.

    I tried a workaround using my Oppo HDMI switch, basically trying to 'trick' my receiver into thinking that it was sending the signal to an HDMI device, but it wasn't having any of that. So I plugged my HDMI sources into the receiver, ran the HDMI output from the receiver to the HDMI box, then ran the HDMI/DVI cable to the TV. Yeah, that didn't work.

    If anyone has an HDMI receiver and a TV with DVI and can test this please let me know.
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  16. #16

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    If Billbillw is right, and it does sound reasonable, you may have to stick with the optical out on the sound until you get a fully HDMI capable TV. I also think some of the lower end Yammys 365 or 465, have HDMI video only passthrough hence audio stops at the reciever like Billbillw says so that may work, no idea though, in case you wanted to try a different AVR.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsSiMiLaTeD View Post
    I've had one of the Panasonic plasma sets in the house, and in fact have the 42" in the bedroom, but the picture is not as good as my Toshiba set. The only TV I've seen that compares to my current TV is the high end Pioneer Kuro set, and I'm not wanting to spend 2K on a TV right now. The LED TVs are also nice, but again I'm looking at 2500 for a 55", which is still smaller than my 57H93.
    The current Panny plasmas (G10, G15, V10) are as good or better than the non Elite Kuro line, which is now pretty much discontinued. Panny bought out the Pioneer technology. If you are comparing to an older generation plasma, I can see your point.

  18. #18

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    I was actually referring to the Elite models. The 42" Panny in my bedroom was purchased a couple months ago, and is a great set, but still not as good as my Toshiba. The overscane on the Toshiba is a bummer though...
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

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