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  1. #1

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    Default Pannasonic Blu Ray?

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Panasoni...&skuId=9260685

    does anyone have any input on this player - I know the Oppo BD83 is the BD player to get for many reasons - but $500 bucks is not happenning for a while - and we have quite a collection of DVDs that don't look very good on the new TV - so I was thinking this $159 player would be a good entry point......

    Let me know

    Thanks

  2. #2

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    clarknova_666,

    The Panasonic would be an excellent choice. The UniPhier Chipset thats installed does a phenomenal job with video processing, one of the best by far.

    You cannot go wrong Sir.-------BILL(BB3)
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  3. #3

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    Better price at Amazon free shipping and no tax.

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001V9LA44/...m&linkCode=as1

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB3 View Post
    clarknova_666,

    The Panasonic would be an excellent choice. The UniPhier Chipset thats installed does a phenomenal job with video processing, one of the best by far.

    You cannot go wrong Sir.-------BILL(BB3)
    Not true. The Panny BluRay players are very average at DVD deinterlacing and upconversion.

    Clarknova,

    The Panny Bluray players are a solid choice for Bluray playback, but they are lacking for DVD playback quality. I would recommend getting one of the Toshiba XDE upscaling DVD players for DVD playback (XDE500 or XDE600). They are less than $70, but they get absolutely perfect scores from the venerable 'Secrets' Benchmark. Heck, for the price, you could get the Bluray and the Tosh XDE and still be less than 1/2 the price of the Oppo player.

  5. #5

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    +1 ^^^^

    You will be happier with a player that upscales well.
    -Kevin
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    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)

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  6. #6

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    "Not True". Hmmm....Not To Discount What You Gentlemen Are Stating, But Every Article And Test That I've Read, States Otherwise. ----BILL
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by vc69 View Post
    +1 ^^^^

    You will be happier with a player that upscales well.
    At this point, there are very few BluRay players that deinterlace and upconvert well: Oppo (Anchor Bay chips), Denon (with the Reon/Realta chips), and a discontinued Samsungs (w/ Reon chip).

    I really wish Toshiba would take their XDE technology and put it into a Bluray player. That would be a killer design and they would corner the market if they could keep the price down under $200 with those features. Perhaps next year...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB3 View Post
    "Not True". Hmmm....Not To Discount What You Gentlemen Are Stating, But Every Article And Test That I've Read, States Otherwise. ----BILL
    I had one. They do not do DVD very well. Lots of errors in the de-interlacing department. Smeared images, artifacts, etc. Noticeably worse than the output from my XA2. Any machine with Reon/Realta or Anchor Bay chipped machine (or even the Tosh XDE) will be much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billbillw View Post
    At this point, there are very few BluRay players that deinterlace and upconvert well: Oppo (Anchor Bay chips), Denon (with the Reon/Realta chips), and a discontinued Samsungs (w/ Reon chip).

    I really wish Toshiba would take their XDE technology and put it into a Bluray player. That would be a killer design and they would corner the market if they could keep the price down under $200 with those features. Perhaps next year...
    I agree. I spent the clams on an Oppo because I wanted my SD DVD collection to have some shelf life. I think that smaller displays benefit less though. Some people just can't see the difference. Must be nice.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB3 View Post
    "Not True". Hmmm....Not To Discount What You Gentlemen Are Stating, But Every Article And Test That I've Read, States Otherwise. ----BILL
    Same here, Home Theater Magazine seemed to like it's DVD performance:

    Panasonic’s UniPhier is one of the best performers in terms of overall video processing. It offers outstanding color fidelity and resolution.

    The DMP-BD60 sailed through our video processing tests. It supports full deinterlacing of high-definition and standard-def DVD playback with great results.
    So did Sound & Vision:

    The BD60 aced all of the HQV Blu-ray Disc tests; even the noise-reduction chapter showed that the player’s noise-reduction adjustments didn’t have a deleterious effect on picture detail when pushed to a high setting. It also passed most tests on the DVD version of the same program, only coming up short on the Assorted Cadences torture tests. As expected given these results, the BD60’s picture quality was uniformly superb with both Blu-ray and DVD movies

    Panasonic’s DMP-BD60 offers great picture quality, plenty of desirable A/V features, and solid, reliable performance. If I were shopping for a Blu-ray player, it would be at the top of my list.
    I got one for the GF and she really enjoys it. Honestly I have only watched a couple DVDs on it, but they look great, no issues to speak off. Off course I have a OPPO at home, but if I only had $200 or so to spend I wouldn't think twice about buying a BD60 for myself.
    Last edited by Gaara; 12-07-2009 at 01:40 PM.

  11. #11

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    I think where they really fall short is with de-interlacing benchmarks. Panny makes a good player, and all of them play BD's well.
    -Kevin
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  12. #12

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    great info - I'll look into it all and see what comes of it.

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    Read this review. Denon uses Panasonic Uniphier in several of their lower end BluRay Players.
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/blu-r...html?showall=1

    "Standard DVD Video Processing Performance

    The 1800 features Panasonic's Uniphier chipset solution which has seen several revisions since its release. Standard DVD performance doesn't seem to be a priority for Panasonic's engineers though because players that use the Uniphier solution still exhibit trouble with poorly encoded DVD material.

    The 1800 was unable to lock onto our high detail 3-2 cadence wedge patterns. Similarly the player also couldn't correctly decode 2-2 material and so both video and film material that is encoded poorly will lose substantial detail and combing artifacts will be visible. On the upside, the player did pass the syncing subtitles to frames test and the Super Speedway high detail test. The 1800BD is a motion adaptive player that applies diagonal filtering.

    When we ran the 1800 through our CUE tests, it passed the 3-2 chroma tests but failed on the 2-2 CUE test as well as the more difficult ICP CUE test."

    Overall Benchmark Score: 57 (which is quite poor).


    The Oppo Scores a 98, the Tosh XDE scores 100!

    When it comes to DVD playback, many people will be happy with less, but I want to know for sure that I'm seeing the image as it is supposed to be displayed! I don't trust any reviews unless they have a benchmark type test for DVD playback. Simply watching normal material will not give you an idea of how the performance is when it hits some poorly mastered material (there is a lot out there!)
    Last edited by billbillw; 12-07-2009 at 01:53 PM.

  14. #14

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    For comparison:




    To be fair, the Oppo passes all the SD performance with the same passing score that the XDE does. The Bluray has a few additional tests that bring down the score ever so slightly. It is still considered a reference level player for both BD and DVD.
    Last edited by billbillw; 12-07-2009 at 01:59 PM.

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    then what's the best inexpensive bluray/ dvd player?
    Main system
    http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...pin&1162599347 Freelance reviewer for StereoMojo

  16. #16

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    The Pany Blu-Ray has a Great Blu-Ray picture!(but the Oppo is the best).
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  17. #17

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    Pioneer BDP51FD does a great job of upscaling and for the price they can be had if you can still find one they are hard to beat.

  18. #18

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    I think we're "picking-nits" here, as I have the lowly Panasonic BD-30, and after upgrading firmware to v2.9, DVD's look very, very nice. Sometimes on very well recorded material I have to ask myself if I have a BluRay in, or a SDVD. The new Panasonic's have been getting glowing reviews in the SDVD department, far better than my model.

    Bill, with all due respect; comparing a video chip in a different player (the Denon) is like saying my $400 cd player should be as good as a $5000 cd player because they both use Burr-Brown DAC's. It's not a valid comparison, IMO.
    Last edited by steveinaz; 12-08-2009 at 07:55 AM.

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  19. #19

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    I can't argue with the numbers above but I will say that as far as blu-ray is concerned Pannie knows its business....it's an excellent player in its price range.

    I also have the Pioneer Tool mentions above....also a very nice player with really nice SOUND as well...the newer Pioneers are OK...but you'd have to buy an Elite to equal this one today.

    Denon players are generally too pricey...and Oppos I really don't know--never used them only know the reviews. And I still don't understand the Oppo phenomenon?

    cnh

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    I think we're "picking-nits" here, as I have the lowly Panasonic BD-30, and after upgrading firmware to v2.9, DVD's look very, very nice. Sometimes on very well recorded material I have to ask myself if I have a BluRay in, or a SDVD. The new Panasonic's have been getting glowing reviews in the SDVD department, far better than my model.

    Bill, with all due respect; comparing a video chip in a different player (the Denon) is like saying my $400 cd player should be as good as a $5000 cd player because they both use Burr-Brown DAC's. It's not a valid comparison, IMO.
    I agree Steve. I own the BD-30 as well and like it a lot. Works for me.
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    The only serious ragging I've seen on the Panny's is lack of wireless internet connection. I have no desire to "interact" with my movies, so its a moot point for me.

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    I said it before, I think Panasonic had it right awhile back with the BD30. I own one, now apart of the bedroom rig. Load times were pretty good from the start. I now have the Oppo in my theater, but that was a "want". The Panny will perform well, and as mentioned cheaper on Amazon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    Bill, with all due respect; comparing a video chip in a different player (the Denon) is like saying my $400 cd player should be as good as a $5000 cd player because they both use Burr-Brown DAC's. It's not a valid comparison, IMO.
    Steve,
    It is a valid comparison because the Denon and Panny are in similar price ranges and video decoding/de-interlacing/upscaling is primarily done on the chip(s), which are typically implemented in identical fashion due to the design restrictions. Typically, there is little or no difference in the de-interlacing performance between similar players that use the same generation of the same decoding/deinterlacing/upscaling chips. I've been looking at DVD de-interlacing performance since progressive scan players first started coming to the market (back around 2001) and this has always been true.

    Differences in CD players are more complex due to the flexibility in output sections. The DACs play a key role, but more important is the design of the analog signal section which can vary greatly from simple cheap op-amp outputs, to fully discrete solid state analog paths, to tube output sections.

    And it seems to me, that you were complaining about the BD30 upscaling back when you first got the player.

    Bottom line, I'm not saying the Panny is a bad player. It is one of the best choices out there for a sub-$150 BluRay player. It is a solid performer, but if you are picky and want the best DVD performance, you need to have another solution. For $60-$70, the Toshiba XDE player will deliver perfect deinterlacing and excellent upscaling with any DVD, not just well mastered discs. If you have to have a single player solution, then you must get a more expensive Bluray player like the Oppo.

    BTW, ToolFan, the Pio 51FD is a good player with excellent build quality, but is still not a top notch deinterlacer/upscaler. It only scored an 85 on the 'Benchmark'.

  24. #24

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    Yes, initially the BD30 disappointed in the SDVD department. One of 2 things has happened; 1) One or more of the firmware upgrades improved this 2) I simply got used to a poor picture?

    From what I've seen (and I'm pretty picky too), it's not the latter. There were specific spots in movies that I went back to after firmware upgrade, and the initial problems I saw with de-interlacing were gone. Most notably the scene in the new "Planet of the Apes" where they are showing all the camp fires as the slaves are being brought into town. Also "Amadeus" looked terrible, after the firmware upgrade--far better.

    I purchased an Oppo SDVD player (971??) can't remember the model, to use strictly for SDVD duty while owning the BD30--but I actually found the BD30 to do a better job at SDVD. It was promptly returned to Oppo. That was my experience, I can't speak for others. The Oppo was grainier, and colors were not as saturated when compared to the BD30. Both players were using HDMI connections straight to my HDTV; both were calibrated using DVE.

    My point? Numbers aren't everything. Great measurements do not ensure great real-world performance.

    I'm certain the Oppo 83 is an outstanding performer--no question there. Is it $250 better than the BD80? I have my doubts...
    Last edited by steveinaz; 12-08-2009 at 10:11 AM.

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  25. #25

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    ...and, I have an excellent "test bed" for video sources as everything is connected directly to my HDTV. No AVR, no receiver, no switch boxes; nothing in-between mucking up the works. BluRay HMDI out to HDTV HDMI in. Each input calibrated with DVE.

    Just sayin' ;)

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    Ok, It's a fact that that sometimes players will improve through firmware/software updates that occur after an initial test review. Often with significant improvements. However, most of the time, that player never gets retested in a way that quantifies the actual improvements. That's fine if you already own a unit and you are getting a free improvement/upgrade, but if I'm trying to chose a player to purchase, I'm going to base it on the empirical test results, not word of mouth. Furthermore, you can see that the BD60 is not perfect, "only coming up short on the Assorted Cadences torture tests." That is where you get strange artifacts and jaggies, on poorly mastered material which can pop up anywhere and for the picky viewer, it can ruin a movie experience.

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    I have no doubt that you know your stuff Bill, you are very smart about this kind of thing; but the OP says right up front, he cannot afford the Oppo at the present time. I'm just saying that the Panasonics are very hard to beat for the price. For $249, he could go with the BD80 (can be found for less)--that's 1/2 the price of the Oppo 83.

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    Well - As it turns out - my wife surprised me and bought the Panny DMP-BD60K.
    Now - I know that there are better players out there.....and of course....if I was disappointed....It would be returned......but I think this is a really nice player; especially for the money.

    Iron Man on DVD looked way better then it did on my standard DVD player.....maybe not quite Blu-Ray quality.....but certainly it was a joy to look at.
    She also bought "Elf" on blu-ray.....and OMG that looked outstanding.

    The sound was also a huge improvement - especially low end. I also went on-line and looked at some videos on you tube and they looked good - but the interface to use this feature was a little clumsy - called Viera Link......I didn't spend much time with it last night but I am really looking forward to playing with this gadget more.

    I just want to send out a big ups to the man upstairs - I read reviews stating problems with online updates and hdmi handshakes and what not - and I am very thankful that I did not get the bum screen, the bad player, or the craptastic receiver.......

    Thank you everyone for your input - I am really looking forward to re-doing my showcase to show everyone the new HT - and since last year I have added a bedroom "rig of bad decisions" (mostly sony) and a garage rig of "I can't believe these are still working" components leftover from college.

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    I think you're going to LOVE it. Make sure you download the latest firmware. Panasonic has been real good about responding to problems and addressing them quickly thru firmware updates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    I have no doubt that you know your stuff Bill, you are very smart about this kind of thing; but the OP says right up front, he cannot afford the Oppo at the present time. I'm just saying that the Panasonics are very hard to beat for the price. For $249, he could go with the BD80 (can be found for less)--that's 1/2 the price of the Oppo 83.
    Steve,
    I do believe my original suggestion was to get the inexpensive Panny for BD playback ($130), and then spend about $60 extra to get the Tosh XDE for DVD playback. Total would have been under $200.

    Clark, cherish your wife! 1st the TV, now the BluRay! My wife would be happy if we were still using analog TV and VHS. She complains about every upgrade unless it somehow makes things easier or saves money.

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