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  1. #1

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    Default Entry level tubes

    If a feller like myself was thinking about getting into tube gear,but was on a budget,and was going to buy second hand,what would be considered the best bang for the buck.I listen to a little bit of everything,but my most listened to is accoustic,like Shawn Mullins,and anything like the Allman brothers,thats what I dig the most.Just some thoughts from the bottleheads

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    What's your budget and are you looking for a pre-amp or power amp?

    Here;s a great pre-amp with extra tubes to roll included and that Brimar rectifier is superb.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....th-extra-NOS-t

    I have been very, very impressed with mine. Acoustic music will sound wonderful

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  3. #3

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    Im going to be looking for a pre and a power amp,or just intergrated,lets say as far as budget...$1500 will probably be it.I not serious yet,I'll start ing lookig hard around start of spring,thats when the money trees start blooming..lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    What's your budget and are you looking for a pre-amp or power amp?

    Here;s a great pre-amp with extra tubes to roll included and that Brimar rectifier is superb.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....th-extra-NOS-t

    I have been very, very impressed with mine. Acoustic music will sound wonderful

    H9

    I could pick that up now,how ya think it would pair with a carver ss amp?

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    Have you considered the Manley Stingray?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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    Quote Originally Posted by keith allen View Post
    I could pick that up now,how ya think it would pair with a carver ss amp?
    I think it would be great, but your budget is a little higher and perhaps you want to look into an integrated.

    As George suggest a Manley Stingray would be very nice.

    At $1500 you will have a lot of choices either for a nice pre to go with your Carvers or a nice mid-level integrated.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  7. #7

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    From what I've read so far, you should stick with SS.

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    What kind of speakers will you be driving? You may also want to look at hybrid integrated amp (pre tube, SS amp sections) Jolida makes a model w/ or without a remote that you can find used for $600.

    All tube on a budget the Vista Audio i34 is scary good at $980 new.
    Staff Member TONEAudio[SIZE="1"]
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai View Post
    From what I've read so far, you should stick with SS.
    Why so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by markmarc View Post
    What kind of speakers will you be driving? You may also want to look at hybrid integrated amp (pre tube, SS amp sections) Jolida makes a model w/ or without a remote that you can find used for $600.

    All tube on a budget the Vista Audio i34 is scary good at $980 new.
    sda1a's,and lsi9's,and I have looked at that jolida over the years

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    Have you considered the Manley Stingray?
    No,but I will,Ive heard of it but never pay it any attention

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by keith allen View Post
    Why so?
    Because he doesn't like any of the recommendations. Ignore him unless he gives you some alternatives. It's Mark being Mark ;)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Because he doesn't like any of the recommendations. Ignore him unless he gives you some alternatives. It's Mark being Mark ;)

    H9
    I see,audiosnob,I mean phile:p

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    Keith:
    Since you have the LSi9's, you'll want to find a beefy tube amp which will cost $$. The Manley gear is excellent stuff for the buck and will have the power. Do yourself one favor and plan on $500 or so and upgrade the LSi9 x-overs. You'll be very impressed at the improvement
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  15. #15

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    I think the Manley recommendation is way off base beings he's never used tubes before and Dared just sucks.

    He also stated he wasn't really serious, probably a budget of X, thinking about it, not sure....good luck. I suggested he stick with what he knows and enjoys already.

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    When did you hear a Dared with Auricaps and proper tubes? It's not at the level of say BAT or the higher end Rogue's or CJ or ARC, etc.............but without the Chinese crap tubes it's actually pretty impressive and 1000 times better sounding then I thought it was going to be.

    But since he's now stated his budget........I agree maybe I under recommended to him. I have Dougs modified Rogue 66 he bought from Russ with Gary Dodd mods to demo to see just exactly where the Dared fits.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  17. #17

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    If you are running SDA's and LSi's I'd stick with SS power amp and look for a nice tubed pre-amp and use some of your budget for tube rolling.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  18. #18

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    Maybe I have heard one, maybe I haven't....who cares? I know enough about Dared to make an educated comment. Of course its no BAT or Cary. Meh, suggest what you want, good luck.

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    Hey,thanx for all the suggestion and thoughts,no need to start a civil war here.I have a high end audio shop fairly close and they have lots of good used geat too,and they dont mind ya trying it out.I just recently added a adcom gfp565 preamp to my main system and man was it an improvement.So I moved the new pre to my livingroom system,littl less budget rig,but uses the same amp,I really liked it.So think I'll move it there permantley,and was thinking about just swapping to tubes finally.But maybe I'll look at just improving the pre to tubes,that was suggested when I was looking for my last preamp.Thanx again folks

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    Keith, I don't have much experience with tube stuff either. Having said that, VTL and ARC (Audio Research) has some excellent entry level tube preamps that you can get used within your price range. I have found my VTL pre to be very consistent and easy to use. I haven't even rolled any tubes and it is a significant step up and away from any SS pre I have tried. Don't give up the fight!
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  21. #21

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    The 565 isn;t even a great pre-amp, so if you heard an improvement using that then you are in for a HUGE treat. I'd take the Dared every day of the week and twice on Sunday over any Adcom pre with the exception of the GFP-750.

    Not dissing your pre-amp selection but it's a very mediocre pre as far as pre's go. In that case jump on the Dared because with the Telefunken and Brimar tubes it will smoke what you have. Not even a contest for a one eared person.

    I have 2 NOS 1940's 5Z4G Brimar Military rectifiers like the one FS with the Dared I linked to and it's an excellent choice it slightly edges out the 1950's RCA 5V4G black plates I have. I have a pair of Telefunken ECC801S which is the uber premium version of the Telefunken 12AT7 and they last forever and sound superb.

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 12-12-2009 at 01:45 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  22. #22

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    'Budget' preamps like the Dared or Little Dots do NOT suck! They are 'giant killers', especially with good NOS tubes, and sound superb with good source and speakers. Sure they are no VTL, Cary, or BAT, but for their price points, they are a veritable STEAL and great deal for budget conscious audiophiles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    What's your budget and are you looking for a pre-amp or power amp?

    Here;s a great pre-amp with extra tubes to roll included and that Brimar rectifier is superb.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....th-extra-NOS-t

    I have been very, very impressed with mine. Acoustic music will sound wonderful

    H9
    Nice find, Brock. That's a great price on SL-2000A, and with the extra tubes. Sweet deal.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malaka View Post
    'Budget' preamps like the Dared or Little Dots do NOT suck! They are 'giant killers', especially with good NOS tubes, and sound superb with good source and speakers. Sure they are no VTL, Cary, or BAT, but for their price points, they are a veritable STEAL and great deal for budget conscious audiophiles.
    Not so sure they are 'giant killers' but they sound a whole lot better than they should, and what the normal audiophile who assumes they're crap, when they clearly are not.

    I've had all 3 of my Dared units open and I've seen American made gear that doesn't look this good as far as parts used, PC board quality and quality solder joints and short signal paths.

    Yes, they do cut some corners with the IEC plug and the input/output connectors compared to uber expensive stuff but that stuff is easily replaced and tweaked if one wants to go there. The input/output connectors are just as good as any receiver sold today.

    FWIW

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 12-12-2009 at 03:25 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    I can recommend this pre-amp. It's extremely good, especially for the price. If you can find one used, it'll be around $350 and I think you'll be impressed. I can also recommend their hybrid tube amp also. (see link below for the pre-amp)

    http://www.amchome.com/content/amc-cvt1030-series

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    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    I can recommend this pre-amp. It's extremely good, especially for the price. If you can find one used, it'll be around $350 and I think you'll be impressed. I can also recommend their hybrid tube amp also. (see link below for the pre-amp)

    http://www.amchome.com/content/amc-cvt1030-series
    The only caution I have for some AMC tube gear is that many times the tubes are soldered into the board (no sockets) and it's a real PITA to roll tubes. Not all AMC tube gear is like this, but if the OP considers AMC gear just be susre and ask that question. I know this because at one point I was looking at some AMC tube gear.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    anyone have any first and experience with this ? I've read about it but have never seen/heard one.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....1-Tube-Preamp-
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    anyone have any first and experience with this ? I've read about it but have never seen/heard one.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....1-Tube-Preamp-
    No experience with it, but it looks well done and the Auricaps are extremely nice. All my Dared pieces have Auricaps and personally I think it's one of the reasons they sound so damn good.

    I'm not a fan of the tube guards like that, but that's just me.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    Only thing is I'm not sure what is avail for the 6X4 driver tube. Do you know? Is it one of those oddball tubes some Russian/Chinese designers use? Or a legit popular tube?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    The only caution I have for some AMC tube gear is that many times the tubes are soldered into the board (no sockets) and it's a real PITA to roll tubes. Not all AMC tube gear is like this, but if the OP considers AMC gear just be susre and ask that question. I know this because at one point I was looking at some AMC tube gear.

    H9
    Good point H9. I didn't mention that about the pre-amp. The older models didn't have tube sockets. I believe it was the CVT-1030 (without the s added on) The "s" is for socket. Thanks for the add on H9.

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