Optical out vs. analog

[polkatese]

All,

I have an old Sony XA3ES CD player that I used for 2 channel listening. Overall it sounded good and very pleasant to listen to. My question is around interconnect: the player has optical out that I used in the past, and then switch over to analog since then. No particular reason, other than running out of optical/toslink input on the receiver. Does anybody try both connection and choose one over the other for *noticable* sonic quality difference?

Jrausch,
With your outboard DAC experiences, did you notice a meaningful (for the better) difference, when you compared onboard DAC player with the onboard DAC receiver?

TIA, all!

[RuSsMaN]

First of all, I'm just not a fan of optical cables, so there is some bias.

The question I would ask, is which has the better DAC(s), the cd player, or the receiver? What receiver do you have? The quality of interconnect (using the cd's onboard DACs) will make a difference also.

Cheers,
Russ

[mantis]

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
First of all, I'm just not a fan of optical cables, so there is some bias.

The question I would ask, is which has the better DAC(s), the cd player, or the receiver? What receiver do you have? The quality of interconnect (using the cd's onboard DACs) will make a difference also.

Cheers,
Russ

Agreed.DAC's is where you'll deside what sounds better.Then the issue of how good the cable is will come up.
The B&K ref50 has the newest Motorola DAC's inside.They might sound better.......listen and you will see. For the hell of it,try the rotel DAC'c as well.
My man where's that damn 125.7??????Hey side note,what do you plan to hook the 2 together with??????

[polkatese]

Russ,
the player will be connected to the Rotel for the second system. I would assume that the Rotel's DAC would be better. I am leaning to use toslink, in part, 'cause I believed optical connection tends to be more natural/flat/sterile and less dependent on the quality of interconnects, yes? But, I will do a quick shoot out when I hook 'em up.

Dan,
as a matter of fact, the brown truck supposed to show up in my front door in a couple of hours or so (hopefully)! Had cleared up my schedule today so that I can spend sometime. I will be using SignalCable XLR balanced (had it for a week and half, waiting) I need to rearrange the gears on the cabinet to mix and match faceplates finish... are you at work?

[HBombToo]

polkatese, you runnen xlr for the anaolog or digital?

just curious

HBomb

[polkatese]

HBomb, the XLR balanced analog i/c will be used to link ref50 to the 125.7 (pre/pro to amp)...

[RuSsMaN]

I just don't like optical, period. I don't see the need to make TWO more conversions to the signal, from electrical digital, to light, then from light, back to electrical digital, then finally to analog.

I can see your point on 'sterility', could be. In the comparisons I've done, I think coax is worth it, but then again, they weren't dbt's, and I confess my bias upfront.

Hey, it's not my rig, try it both ways, let us know how you hear it!

Cheers,
Russ

[polkatese]

Russ,
If the deck has coax out, that actually would be my first option to use (since I have a spare nice coax and a couple ok sony toslink). But, the deck is circa 1996 and coax is not as common back then...

thanks for your input, bud!

[jrausch]

Polkatese,


The reason I went with an outboard DAC was the overly bright music I was getting when I set up my Line Drive 2/ch rig. I had never used an outboard before and never knew what it could actually do for my system. What I got from it was much more than I expected. It cleaned those highs up so much that I can crank it to almost any tolerable listening levels without fatigue. The next thing was how consistent the music is now. You know how most people have those couple of CD's that show off your system? Unless it's an absolutely horrid recording everything is on equal par with what use to be my show off demo material. That's how much it has changed my system.

Now, like Russ and Mantis pointed out it has much to do with Quality and Build of the DAC you are using. DAC's change the way a signal is analyzed and converted and will have a large impact on the way the music sounds in your rig. Just because it says TOL Burr-brown DAC does not make it the best. The circuitry that is built around that DAC is equally important for it must deliver that well converted signal to the output. So far my Parasound/Ultra Analog wins hands down as a 20bit DAC it smokes all of the 24bit DAC's I have tried. The music is free from coloration and is as close to analog sounding as anything I have heard. The unfortunate thing is that Ultra Analog no longer makes DAC’s for the open market. The High end audio company Wadia bought the company and now owns exclusive rights to their technology. Burr-brown just came out with some new DAC's that hit a S/N ratio of 130db's which should make for some killer DAC's if designed right. As far as the cables I prefer, Optical introduces more jitter in signal because of the light conversion. I use coax because it’s the next best thing my player provides and its sound is much smoother than optical. Balanced would be the best way to carry the signal, unfortunately I don’t have that option yet. I can’t decide between SACD and a killer transport with a balanced output.

[polkatese]

Jrausch,
thanks for your input. This is one of the area that I might be interested to explore in the future. It would be an ideal setup (to me) with the Sony, since the transport on this machine is very solid, all metal, and extremely quiet (it was one of the better ES series during its heyday, paid $700.) so, I am interested to breath a new life out of this player and an outboard DAC would be a logical upgrade path. Any suggestion on a list of outboard DAC that you would recommend?

FWIW, I feel that SACD as a source, is significantly better than redbook. It changes my buying habit quite a bit, since now, I am always looking for the SACD version of the redbook that I am interested to buy. In some cases, just for the sake of being able to compare, I ended up with both versions...

[Ceruleance]

Just as a note to anyone reading this without the high quality equipment they have (B&K Ref 50, niiiccee). I did a simple A+B between optical to my JVC RX-8010's and the analog outs on my panasonic high-middle of the line dvd player (DVD-RV31), and I couldnt notice a single difference in favor of either. Just a side note for those middle of the road people.

[mantis]

polkatese,
I was at home when I replied.I was on earlier froma job/house.We set up a network and I was testing the connection.Cable modem running at 1.6 M through put.....very fast.

[Tour2ma]

polka,
Man I missed it when you pulled the trigger on the ref 50... WAY TO GO... I'm off to look for that thread.

[polkatese]

Tour,
yeah, decided to be simply better...lots of reading and tweaking to do now....

[mantis]

Join the wonderful club of "SIMPLY BETTER"...........

As noted.........

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Ceruleance
Just a side note for those middle of the road people.

I did the same thing with my Audio Research DAC. XLR, TOS and Coax and cannot tell the difference between them. But again I am not as good a listener as most.

I think from a purist standpoint Russ is correct that 1 more conversion in line is a waist. Where I saw a huge improvement with my DAC was the output of my RCA DTV box, which only has TOS out, the audio quality improvement was/is remarkable. My opinion is that Jitter from the RCA is so bad the h/k could not reclock like the DAC.

HBomb

[polkatese]

So, I did A/B comparison of output between RCA analog and toslink, from the CD player to the Rotel 1065. What I found out is the analog definitely sound better, for my taste. Mid and high are more dynamic and open. High is definitely more crisp, not overly bright. Connecting with Toslink produces a more flat and somewhat veiled high, and I am using a cheapo interconnect. So, the question now becomes, is it to say the CD player internal DAC is superior than the Rotel DAC or more artificial?

[HBombToo]

I'll venture to guess that the cd sounds better for redbook because tahts all it does compared to the Rotel the DAC is multi function and you lose some quality with increased options.

Just a guess.
Do you know what DAC is used in the Sony verse the Rotel?

HBomb

[polkatese]

Hbomb,
I Would not have a clue on the Sony DAC, but Rotel uses Advanced Crystal Semiconductor microprocessor to handle all digital processing. Your assessment is right on, though, that's a good point. Now I have to find out what the Sony has. I really trying to make this player sound like my Philips SACD-1000, without spending money, how do I do that? 8>)

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by polkatese
I really trying to make this player sound like my Philips SACD-1000, without spending money, how do I do that? 8>)

Have some friends over and tell them to bring Beer... After a sixpack or 2 ;) all will be good.

HBomb

[polkatese]

HBomb,
I have decided to use the analog connection, with SignalCable analog two. Tested and it sounds way better (for my taste), so placed an order with Frank for some more analog two...(may be I should just invest my 401k on SignalCable shares.. :)

[polkatese]

Update: I ordered and received a Signal Cable Analog Two with bullet plug, had them plugged in for a couple of days. Now, without doubt, I am convinced that it sounds significantly better (in this case) than the optical route. I am not making statement about the quality of DAC on the Rotel, to be fair. I guess I have underestimated my Sony player ability to produce great sound with great cable. Btw, the bullet plug option DOES improve the soundstage quite a bit. No it isn't placebo effect, this one is a worthy upgrade on Analog Two. Now I am happy with the sound of LSi9 and Rotel WITHOUT a musical sub...;)

[Gary Robertson]

Yeah------
What Mantis said....

[jkratzer]

I would add that there should be no sound difference between using a digital optical cable(TOSLINK) or a digital coax cable. The signal is digital, just a bunch of 1's and 0's, and both should transmit this data just fine. If there is a difference, it may be due to the conversion of the optical signal to an electrical signal, but I feel that would be unlikely but not impossible. I've used both and prefer the TOSLINK.

[joe logston]

like the toslink myself, but they should try to make a better connection, its to loose for me. im thinking about modifying the ends some how.