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  1. #1

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    Default Canare 4S11 Blue Jeans Speaker Cable

    Considering purchasing raw cable and doing the terminations myself. I am choosing this cable because my new RTiA5's and CSiA6 are bi-wired speakers. I will be connecting speakers to HK 3600 AVR. Blue Jeans website states canare 4s11 is 14 gauge. Will this gauge wire fit into my speaker binding posts. If not, I am thinking spades for speakers and possibly bananas for receiver. Has anyone already gone thru the process using the same speakers. If so, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Seems like bi wiring is questionable on other threads. I asked Joe Abrahms who sells MIT cables and he recommended bi wire cables since my Polks are bi wired speakers. Are there any special setting I need to make on my receiver for bi wiring speakers. Do I remove jumper plates on speakers if I bi wire. Any help appreciated. Thanks

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    Definately remove the jumper plates and No special settings...
    Not even going to enter the debate...

    Happy New Year :D

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    Or you can run one pair of wires to a pair of binding posts, then a short run from one pair of posts to the other.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    For my 2-channel system, I have RTi8's (predecessor to your RTiA5's) and bi-wired them to my Onkyo A9555 integrated using Canare 4s11 using bananas at the amp and spades at the speakers. I did not hear any difference, but it only cost me extra for 4 spades. I used spades at the speakers because they seemed more secure. I used bananas where the wire went into the side since the Canare is pretty thick.

    I did cover my cables with TechFlex, because I thought it looked very good, was inexpensive and easy to do. See http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94203
    Last edited by MLZ; 01-01-2010 at 01:57 PM.

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    I have 12ga bare wired into my RTiA5's, its a little tight, but you can get it in there pretty easy. I wouldn't bother bi-wiring you A5's, i tried it with my Carver AV505 and my HK 354 and didn't really notice a difference. I would however remove the stock jumpers and replace them with better quality cables.
    Home Theater
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    I am using this cable and am quite pleased with it versus the Monster cable it replaced.
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    I am using this cable and am quite pleased with it versus the Monster cable it replaced.
    What cable would that be sir.

  8. #8

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    Canare 4S11 Blue Jeans Speaker Cable...
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    Canare 4S11 Blue Jeans Speaker Cable...
    Thanks, Can you remember if the 14 gauge fits the CSiA6 binding post directly(no bananas or spades).

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    yes it will, but I use spades on mine anyway.
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    Or you can run one pair of wires to a pair of binding posts, then a short run from one pair of posts to the other.
    Isn't that usually called a 'jumper'? If you think about it, bi-wiring really does not make any sense, other than selling more speaker wire. Bi-amping is another story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    yes it will, but I use spades on mine anyway.
    Did you install spades yourself. Think I read that the best connection is without connectors if wire will fit. Thanks again

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    I did install them myself. I planned on doing a nice, finished set, but have decided to persue other upgrades for now and then get a set of MIT's
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

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    Funny that you mentioned MIT cables. Joe Abrahms quoted me $280 for his suggested pair for my new speakers and receiver. I would still need a center so I will use canare 4s11 wire until I complete the rest of my system. Is the canare wire fairly flexible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    If you think about it, bi-wiring really does not make any sense, other than selling more speaker wire. Bi-amping is another story.
    It'll make more sense to you if you study electronics theory and specifically look into what it means to swing a load at the other end of some resistance and with wild impedance swings present.

    I agree with you though that bi-amping is quite different. But you do have to be careful that you do more good than damage with the components used! It's more easily screwed up than just using the manufacturers carefully designed crossover implimentation.

    CoolJazz

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolJazz View Post
    It'll make more sense to you if you study electronics theory and specifically look into what it means to swing a load at the other end of some resistance and with wild impedance swings present.
    Perhaps. But doesn't the amp still see the same load whether there are one pair, or two pair, of wires attached to its speaker out binding posts?

    The electrical part of biwiring is that you now have two resistors (the speaker wire) running in parallel. The total resistence of two resistors in parallel is less than a single resistor so this can change the load the amp sees, and the overall electricial characteristics of the circuit (amp/speaker).

    I guess there is a theoretical possibility biwiring can affect on the sound, but the effect can just as easily be negative as well as positive, depending on the amp/speaker combination, along with the electrical characteristics of the wire.
    Last edited by BlueFox; 01-01-2010 at 07:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray1 View Post
    Funny that you mentioned MIT cables. Joe Abrahms quoted me $280 for his suggested pair for my new speakers and receiver. I would still need a center so I will use canare 4s11 wire until I complete the rest of my system. Is the canare wire fairly flexible.
    The Canare is very flexible, and will work well until you are able to move farther down the rabbit hole.:)
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Perhaps. But doesn't the amp still see the same load whether there are one pair, or two pair, of wires attached to its speaker out binding posts?
    Pretty much, but the two wires will change it a bit over the one wire...as you say next. But the change that you would be after by bi-wiring is the change that occurs at the speaker end of the wire from before to after.

    To me, the easiest way to visualize what bi-wiring can mean is to for a minute assume greater resistance in the wire. Now think what happens not at the amp output but at the speaker input as much greater power is drawn for power hungry bass notes. Remember that the HF is going to be modulated by R value during the power draw moments.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    The electrical part of biwiring is that you now have two resistors (the speaker wire) running in parallel. The total resistence of two resistors in parallel is less than a single resistor so this can change the load the amp sees, and the overall electricial characteristics of the circuit (amp/speaker).
    Yupper!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    I guess there is a theoretical possibility biwiring can affect on the sound, but the effect can just as easily be negative as well as positive, depending on the amp/speaker combination, along with the electrical characteristics of the wire.
    The lower modulation of the HF by the power needed for the lows is the change that your after. How much this makes a difference depends on a number of variables like the output impedance of the amp, the R of the cables of course, how wild the change of the impedance slopes the crossover present, the efficiency and power involved and one that we haven't touched on, the effect on the typical amps feedback loop.

    I do agree...in some situations, some folks won't hear a change with bi-wiring. Just like many things in audio, there are lots of variables even before we get to what the individual is after with their listening preferences.

    Your point about it possibly being a negative...the biggest way I can think of is the driver configuration being overdamped. In that case a greater R value in the cable means lower dampening and restores a more natural decay to notes. More often needed than most people realize, IMHO.

    CoolJazz

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    The electrical part of biwiring is that you now have two resistors (the speaker wire) running in parallel. The total resistence of two resistors in parallel is less than a single resistor so this can change the load the amp sees, and the overall electricial characteristics of the circuit (amp/speaker).

    After thinking about this, I realized this statement is incorrect. The two speaker wires are not in parallel, since the jumper on the speakers will have been removed. In effect, this is two different loads on the amp, although both loads are in the same speaker cabinent. An easier way to visualize this is to think of two seperate speakers connected to the same speaker connection on the amp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    After thinking about this, I realized this statement is incorrect. The two speaker wires are not in parallel, since the jumper on the speakers will have been removed. In effect, this is two different loads on the amp, although both loads are in the same speaker cabinent. An easier way to visualize this is to think of two seperate speakers connected to the same speaker connection on the amp.
    Two different loads? All it does is move the jumper from the speaker to the amp terminal. The only change is a very slight drop in resistance. No different than using bigger wire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Perhaps. But doesn't the amp still see the same load whether there are one pair, or two pair, of wires attached to its speaker out binding posts?

    The electrical part of biwiring is that you now have two resistors (the speaker wire) running in parallel. The total resistence of two resistors in parallel is less than a single resistor so this can change the load the amp sees, and the overall electricial characteristics of the circuit (amp/speaker).

    I guess there is a theoretical possibility biwiring can affect on the sound, but the effect can just as easily be negative as well as positive, depending on the amp/speaker combination, along with the electrical characteristics of the wire.
    Wonder why Polk would set their speakers up for bi-wiring if it could negatively effect their product. Must be a big time exception to the norm if it is true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray1 View Post
    Wonder why Polk would set their speakers up for bi-wiring if it could negatively effect their product. Must be a big time exception to the norm if it is true.
    Choice. They provide the rope, you can hang yourself if you so choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    Two different loads? All it does is move the jumper from the speaker to the amp terminal. The only change is a very slight drop in resistance. No different than using bigger wire.
    Look at this schematic for the LSi15. The tweeter is isolated from the from the upper/lower driver, and woofer. The jumpers are what couple them together, and the x-over is what sends the appropriate frequencies to each driver.

    Remove the jumpers, and the tweeter is now an isolated speaker from the other speakers in the system. Attach seperate wires to the amp for the tweeter and the other drivers, and the amp now sees two different loads; the tweeter is one, and the other upper/lower driver, and woofer is the other speaker.


    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/atta...8&d=1155780535

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38755

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Choice. They provide the rope, you can hang yourself if you so choose.
    Do you believe that Polk would "provide the rope" to ruin their reputation and lose market share. Hard to believe from a "common sense" point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray1 View Post
    Do you believe that Polk would "provide the rope" to ruin their reputation and lose market share. Hard to believe from a "common sense" point of view.
    You're right, poor metaphor. "Choice" is sufficient. :D

    Try it, and let your ears decide if it is better, the same, or worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Look at this schematic for the LSi15. The tweeter is isolated from the from the upper/lower driver, and woofer. The jumpers are what couple them together, and the x-over is what sends the appropriate frequencies to each driver.

    Remove the jumpers, and the tweeter is now an isolated speaker from the other speakers in the system. Attach seperate wires to the amp for the tweeter and the other drivers, and the amp now sees two different loads; the tweeter is one, and the other upper/lower driver, and woofer is the other speaker.
    Instead of coupling them with the jumper, you are coupling them together at the amp's binding post. The cicuit has not been changed at all, the load is the same. Think about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    Instead of coupling them with the jumper, you are coupling them together at the amp's binding post. The cicuit has not been changed at all, the load is the same. Think about it.
    Yep I agree. Some say that having the lower frequencies on one set of wires and the highs on another keeps the sound cleaner. I have had good luck using different cables on the highs and lows, but two identical sets of wires is a waste IMHO.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    Instead of coupling them with the jumper, you are coupling them together at the amp's binding post. The cicuit has not been changed at all, the load is the same. Think about it.
    Okay. Maybe I have over thought this, and confused myself. It certainly would not be the first time.

    This is my logic in regard to the LSi15 schematic.

    There are two speakers shown on the drawing. They are identified by the “+” and “-“ symbol pairs. The tweeter has one pair. The upper/lower driver, and woofer has the other pair. When the jumpers are installed between the “+” and “-“ pair it creates one circuit. All components are connected, and this is what the amp “sees”.

    Remove the jumpers, and now there are 2 separate speakers; the tweeter, and the upper/lower driver and woofer. Granted they are in the same cabinet, but I suspect very few electrons are leaking between the two circuits. Now the amp is “seeing” two separate loads on the same output. This could be good, neutral, or bad. As mentioned above, mentally put each speaker in a separate cabinet to more easily visualize what is happening when the jumpers are removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Yep I agree. Some say that having the lower frequencies on one set of wires and the highs on another keeps the sound cleaner.
    Don't know why some would say that. The amp is still sending the full range on both wires when bi-wiring.

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    Remove the jumpers, and now there are 2 separate speakers;
    But connect them to the amp terminal and the "jumper" is replaced. The circuit hasn't changed. The load on the amp has not changed. Draw it out on paper if you need to visualize it.

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