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Thread: Room Treatments

  1. #61

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    Mine are 2" thick and flat to the wall with good results, Should I try and put a 2" space between them and the wall?? Hummm if so I wonder what I could use.. The spacers I did try at one time when I first put them up didn't work very well and I just wanted them up so they went up flat to the wall..
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOOLFORLIFEFAN View Post
    Mine are 2" thick and flat to the wall with good results, Should I try and put a 2" space between them and the wall?? Hummm if so I wonder what I could use.. The spacers I did try at one time when I first put them up didn't work very well and I just wanted them up so they went up flat to the wall..
    To go along with Tool's question.....

    Any tips on how to hang from a suspended grid ceiling?

    I suppose I could take screw eye hooks into the back of the panels and then use some kind of wire to hang them with. Any other ideas?

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOOLFORLIFEFAN View Post
    Mine are 2" thick and flat to the wall with good results, Should I try and put a 2" space between them and the wall?? Hummm if so I wonder what I could use.. The spacers I did try at one time when I first put them up didn't work very well and I just wanted them up so they went up flat to the wall..
    Larry, it depends if you have a solid backing on the trap or not. If you have a solid back, moving it out will not gain you much, if anything. If there is an open back, 2-4 inches will double the trapping surface thereby making the trap twice as big as the dimensions suggest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsturgeon89 View Post
    To go along with Tool's question.....

    Any tips on how to hang from a suspended grid ceiling?

    I suppose I could take screw eye hooks into the back of the panels and then use some kind of wire to hang them with. Any other ideas?
    I've seen folks replace the ceiling tile WITH the trap. You can cover it in the same or contrasting color fabric. This way you don't lose ceiling height.

    Gordon
    Last edited by Hawkeye; 07-14-2010 at 01:14 AM.
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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Larry, it depends if you have a solid backing on the trap or not. If you have a solid back, moving it out will not gain you much, if anything. If there is an open back, 2-4 inches will double the trapping surface thereby making the trap twice as big as the dimensions suggest.

    Gordon
    This is not the reason I pull my panels away from the wall. I do it for wavelength. If the trap has some room behind it, that gives it a chance to absorb even lower frequencies. Think: midbass tightness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Larry, it depends if you have a solid backing on the trap or not. If you have a solid back, moving it out will not gain you much, if anything. If there is an open back, 2-4 inches will double the trapping surface thereby making the trap twice as big as the dimensions suggest.

    Gordon
    What if the backing was peg board? Would one still benefit from having it off the wall or would it be better to flush mount?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinAce View Post
    This is not the reason I pull my panels away from the wall. I do it for wavelength. If the trap has some room behind it, that gives it a chance to absorb even lower frequencies. Think: midbass tightness.
    +1 to ShinAce's comment, but I'll expand upon it a bit...

    The main reason to space your trap away from the wall is to lower the frequency range that is trapped. Frequencies are absorbed most when their wavelength is 1/4 the length of the air gap. As we all know, lower frequencies have a longer wavelength. So, the bigger the air gap, the lower the frequency it can trap. Additionally, frequencies that fall fully within a trap are "completely" absorbed.

    The reason you should space the trap an equal distance (from the wall as the trap is thick) is to avoid a gap in the frequency range that is being absorbed.

    Having said the above, you can already guess that placing 2" thick traps, spaced 2" from the wall, all over the room is going to absorb one frequency range very well, while not doing much for other frequencies. How do you solve that? Two ways:

    1) Build traps of varying thickness, spaced at varying depths from the wall.

    2) Build corner traps (because by definition, they will have a varying sized air gap behind them).

    I think corner traps are the place to start, since just a single one can be considered a "broadband absorber" (compared to building several wall traps to cover as wide of a frequency range). No corner should go untrapped!

    Of course, it might be hard to trap a corner that has a door next to it. I suppose you could create a removable trap that you install once you are inside the room. Hey, now that I think of it, that could even be a good excuse to get out of doing things for your significant other... "Sorry honey, I can't help now. I'm in my listening room with my corner trap installed." :D

    Hope that helps,

    Alan

    P.S. For more in-depth information on this subject, I suggest you go to Ethan Winer's website. He has a wealth of knowledge regarding building and placing traps, including the physics behind it...

  8. #68

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    Ok, I guess I didn't get technical enough:D:D:D

    I'm able to permanently trap 3 of the 4 corners in my room. The fourth has the door. I move one in and out when listening. I've treated my 11X25 room with four Mondo corner traps, six tri-traps for the floor/wall/ceiling corner intersection, two HF Mini-traps placed directly behind the speakers and two micro traps at the first reflection point. All of them are placed off the wall the same distance as the thickness, so they all vary between 1 and 4 inches. All were purchased from Ethan's company.

    IF I was to start trapping again, I'd start with the corners as mentioned by Alan. It was quite undescribable in the before and after. At first I thought the bass had disappeared but after listening, the presentation was much more refined and accurate. Crisp and solid vs boom and jello. I don't think the SRS2 could survive in my room without them. The "one-note" bass complaint has mostly disappeared and the definition is much more enjoyable now.

    Having that many traps in the living room did not make me very popular with the better half but, after she listened for a bit, she was won over, in spite of the frankly ugly appearance of the traps. Ethan is great on room acoustics. I"ve spoken with him on many ocassions, just don't ask him about wires or any other "tweaks" many of us lose sleep over:D

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  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsturgeon89 View Post
    What if the backing was peg board? Would one still benefit from having it off the wall or would it be better to flush mount?
    From my research, the pegboard does not offer up enough open space for the waves to have much effect. I do understand that if your building a Helmholtz (sic) Resonator to trap a specific frequency, pegboard or several variations of it can affect the response. I can't comment much further than that since it is bumping against my knowledge level.

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    Hawkeye - Glad to see I've joined a forum with people who appreciate and understand acoustics too! Great posts to follow-up my "lecture"... hahaha

    But seriously, for those of you that haven't treated your room yet..... JUST DO IT!

    (Uh oh, am I going to get sued by that shoe company?)

  11. #71

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    Wow, so many options when it comes to all of this. I checked out this thread looking for an inexpensive way to keep from bothering my neighbors if I want to crank the HT. So far, nobody has complained yet and I've been somewhat careful not to be loud after midnight on weekends. On weeknights I shut it down at 10:30pm. I'm mostly concerned with bass since it's the hardest, and most expensive to contain in the house, and I do love my bass,lol. Looking at products like Quietrock, rockwood, GreenGlue, OwensCorning 705 for panels, Realtrap and others. Maybe someone has already tried something like this for their house. Open to all suggestions on this.

  12. #72

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    Decided to build a couple of walls and install a couple of doors to downsize my listening area from 11,000 cu.ft to 6000 cu.ft. On the new walls went with a staggered stud frame, R13 batt, 2 layers of 5/8" sheetrock sandwiched with the Greenglue foam on the listening side. On the opposite side just went 5/8" sheetrock. Eventually I'll add another layer of 5/8" sheetrock with the Greenglue foam to the original existing sheetrock walls in the listening room. I"m not sure if the original sheetrock is 5/8" or what, but at least the exterior of the house is all brick. I know there were better ways to quiet the room down,but this was within my budget. True soundproofing is very expensive and better left to those who have a lot of money. Just downsizing the listening area will be a big improvement.
    Last edited by Polkie2009; 12-11-2010 at 03:27 PM.

  13. #73

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    Hey guys, what's the general treatment for an L-shaped room?
    I have an approx 23' x 18' room, but half of the back side of the room opens up to a 10' deep section that leads to the bathroom.

    Here's the layout:



    I plan to set the screen (100") on the bottom side of the room (of the picture above), due to cabling, window location and shape of wall.

    I'm thinking of closing off that L-shaped portion with some drywall\plaster if that may improve things and simplify the acoustic treatment of that room.

    I'd appreciate any thoughts and advice on this issue!

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    Ysss, you 're right about putting up a drywall and possibly a door to access your bathroom.If anything, it will downsize your listening area and give the room a bit more of a rectangular shape. What is your ceiling height in the room? Like most of us, you have to make due the best you can in the house. Good luck with the project:)
    Last edited by Polkie2009; 12-15-2010 at 04:55 PM.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polkie2009 View Post
    Ysss, you 're right about putting up a drywall and possibly a door to access your bathroom.If anything, it will downsize your listening area and give the room a bit more of a rectangular shape. What is your ceiling height in the room? Like most of us, you have to make due the best you can in the house. Good luck with the project:)
    Thanks a lot Polkie!

    Do you suppose I need to put anything specific behind the (new) drywall? Given the different material density and characteristic to the rest of the walls (concrete)...

    The ceiling height is 10'.

    Btw, I plan to make some 4" deep panels (approx 10'x 4' size) to line the walls with. Maybe 6 or so panels that I will hang in 'strategic' spots, and a bass trap for each of the corners. With the drywall addition, at least I know where to put the basstrap in that corner. Otherwise there'll be a void right next to the viewer's right ear and I'd reckon that would introduce all kind of audio trouble to the system :)

  16. #76

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    I'm a newbie at room treatments too ysss, just learning from the knowledgeable folks here at CP who have been down this road:) So correct me if I'm wrong, the existing walls are concrete and you're going up with drywall right? There are so many options out there, it just depends on how much you're willing to spend. Right now I'm looking at what would be good as a temporary cover for 2 front windows that are 3'x6' each. I too am looking at the options of basstraps and acoustic panels. The foam stuff is cheaper ,but from what I'm interpreting , it doesn't seem to do as good of job compared to the stuff like GIK and Realtrap etc... have, maybe someone can chime in with some more info.

  17. #77

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    I have 5 windows that are 6 foot tall behind me in my living room. I guess I have no choice on acoustic panels behind me. My wife has been working on cloth blinds to add to the windows. They have insulated material called "warm window fabric" in the blinds. I wonder what they will do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejck View Post
    I have 5 windows that are 6 foot tall behind me in my living room. I guess I have no choice on acoustic panels behind me. My wife has been working on cloth blinds to add to the windows. They have insulated material called "warm window fabric" in the blinds. I wonder what they will do.
    Don't despair, I Acoustimac baffles ($25-35 each) over my windows like pictures, and remove when after 3 days of being up my wife gives me the evil eye.
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  19. #79

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    can you use canvas picture paintings with the oc 703 stuffed behind the frame as acousitc treatments?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejck View Post
    can you use canvas picture paintings with the oc 703 stuffed behind the frame as acousitc treatments?
    It needs to be acoustically transparent to be effective(ie.absorbative instead of reflective) at high frequencies.A few companies sell panels with prints on them but I'm not certain if it's a special canvas of somthing else.

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    I've built four 3ft x 2ft frames for my theater room. I've been trying to locate oc 703 but haven't had any luck so far. Will typical unfaced insulation work if enough layers are packed into the frame?
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    Can you source Roxul mineral wool?

  23. #83

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    Okay found a store about 50 miles away that carries it. Looks like I'm set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTGV View Post
    It needs to be acoustically transparent to be effective(ie.absorbative instead of reflective) at high frequencies.A few companies sell panels with prints on them but I'm not certain if it's a special canvas of somthing else.
    So the fabric that is used to cover the OC panels has to be something specific? or can you just use cotton or some form of fabric?

    My parents live in India and I am thinking about having my mom send me some decorative wall coverings that have patterns and decorative themes stiched on to the fabric. I was then going to use this cloth to cover the panels I can make with the OC 703.. what do u think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    The 4" are twice as thick.
    Quote Originally Posted by FTGV View Post
    Can you source Roxul mineral wool?
    GV, can you explain the benefit of Roxul over Pink to make the panel? I can recall you responding to me to (in your former Polkie life which I believe all threads are lost) use Pink for bass traps.

    Cheers!
    TK

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejck View Post
    So the fabric that is used to cover the OC panels has to be something specific? or can you just use cotton or some form of fabric?
    If the panel is being used for first reflection points the material covering it should be acoustically transparent.The reason for this is so that high frequencies can pass through the cover material unimpeded(ie.speaker grill cloth) so that it can be absorbed in the glass or mineral wool.
    If the cover material is not acoustically transparent the high frequencies will be reflected instead of being absorbed,thus reducing the panels effectiness.If you can see light or can blow through it, the material will be acoustically transparent.Most comercial panels use coverings from Guilfords of Maine.
    http://gikacoustics.com/gom_fabrics.html

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    For any Sam's Club members cheap acoustic panels in different colors.

    http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/pr...623&navAction=

    I might order a set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    GV, can you explain the benefit of Roxul over Pink to make the panel? I can recall you responding to me to (in your former Polkie life which I believe all threads are lost) use Pink for bass traps.

    Cheers!
    TK
    TK, it's because of it's increased material density.If you are making 2"-4" panels then the greater density of the Roxul will give it improved absorbtion at lower frequencies vs the run of the mill pink glass.The pink stuff can work fine for corner bass traps given enough depth of material .

    Though not exactly high on the WAF quotent I have heard that just placing unopen bags of standard insulation in the corners works wonders.Since in the corners your only dealing with low frequencies so the plastic covering though reflective will actually improve it's effectivness in the bass range by work as a diaphramic absorber.

    btw.AFAIK all the old thread are still there.
    Last edited by FTGV; 03-28-2011 at 09:34 PM.

  29. #89

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    btw.AFAIK all the old thread are still there.
    OK, I tought they were all deleted (misunderstanding) when you tought someone had taken your web ID. I guess one would be lucky to potentially find them in the history threads? I would hope so, as IMO there was a wealth of knowledge sharing. Yet, the only posts I've ever encountered under GV were other peoples threads you participated and GV is under "guess".

    Now, I tought like everything sound panels shouldn't be overdone but according to this thread, it seems the more the merrier??? I f so, I was thinking of giving the walls irregularity (which is also suppose to improve by minimising wall reflections) by means of having different thickness panels. Also, it seems to be the consensus that using the backing peg board is not ideal since one wants to keep the panel away from the wall for more sond absortion effectiveness. However, which one would be best: 4" panel on wall or 2" panel with 2" airgap for example???

    Cheers!
    TK

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    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    OK, I tought they were all deleted (misunderstanding) when you tought someone had taken your web ID.
    Someone did and they only made a few smart ass posts. I believe the ID still appears in the members list and the account still active.
    GV were other peoples threads you participated and GV is under "guess".
    Some are still around,I was able to find an old mod thread,. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...=pioneer+dv563

    . However, which one would be best: 4" panel on wall or 2" panel with 2" airgap for example???

    Cheers!
    TK
    IMO the results would be equivilent.
    Last edited by FTGV; 03-28-2011 at 10:14 PM.

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