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  1. #1

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    Default 5.1 VS Surround Bar- need suggestions?

    Greetings,
    Let me set the stage for you.
    --New 40" LCD > New TV/ media stand 60" wide > current RTi8's.
    My original plan was to do a 5.1 system, then we got the new tv stand and the front spreakers now sit much wider than before, 1 partially hidden by the jungle bush. (see Photos).
    --- So one thought was (wife's thought) get smaller speakers and set on the stand next to the TV, so I've been considering RTia3 for fronts, CSiA4 for center, a sub undecided and possible OWMs for the rears.
    --- Next thought was to get either the IHT or a 42" SurroundBar with Sub and either keep the RTi8's or go with the RTia3' since I will have a sub anyway.
    --- The room is 19' long x 13' wide and a 13' vaulted ceiling, carpet with lots of wood furniture and fireplace on one side wall and 2 openings on the other wall. Main seating position is 10' from TV and 3 feet off rear wall.
    --- The LCD sound sucks and needs improved. The sytem will probably be 50/50 music-TV-movie currently powered ny Onkyo Sr507 AVR. Tight budget and will be one piece at a time.

    thoughts on this delima?
    thanks
    Greg
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    Last edited by mrbofus; 01-03-2010 at 02:17 PM.

  2. #2

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    ^edit to above.
    the couch is 13 ft from TV and 4 ft off rear wall. We have a shelf that will go above the TV but wife doesnt want a speaker (center) on it.
    Will a surroundbar be enough for this room?
    Greg

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    Hi Greg,

    I have not seen any discussion of where the sweet spot is for a SurroundBar, but 13 feet away seems a bit much. I sit 7 feet from my SB42 and 37" flat panel and get up to 180 degrees of surroundiness in a 5.1 set up. I added a center surround 4 feet behind me for 6.1 which helps a lot. I have not experimented much to find the sweet spot since 7 feet away works well with the 37" flat panel.
    5.1 System:
    Sharp Aquos 37" LCD
    Front: SDA-CRS+
    Center: CS400i
    Surround: Monitor 7A
    PSW10 subwoofer
    Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro
    NAD T955 5 channel power amplifier
    Technics SL-1710 MK2 turntable
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo1421 View Post
    Hi Greg,

    I have not seen any discussion of where the sweet spot is for a SurroundBar, but 13 feet away seems a bit much. I sit 7 feet from my SB42 and 37" flat panel and get up to 180 degrees of surroundiness in a 5.1 set up. I added a center surround 4 feet behind me for 6.1 which helps a lot. I have not experimented much to find the sweet spot since 7 feet away works well with the 37" flat panel.
    jimbo,
    how do you like your Sharp? I have the aqous 40". Did you calibrate?
    Anyway... are you using the surroundbar as a center?
    Thanks
    Greg

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbofus View Post
    Greetings,
    Let me set the stage for you.
    --New 40" LCD > New TV/ media stand 60" wide > current RTi8's.
    My original plan was to do a 5.1 system, then we got the new tv stand and the front spreakers now sit much wider than before, 1 partially hidden by the jungle bush. (see Photos).
    --- So one thought was (wife's thought) get smaller speakers and set on the stand next to the TV, so I've been considering RTia3 for fronts, CSiA4 for center, a sub undecided and possible OWMs for the rears.
    --- Next thought was to get either the IHT or a 42" SurroundBar with Sub and either keep the RTi8's or go with the RTia3' since I will have a sub anyway.
    --- The room is 19' long x 13' wide and a 13' vaulted ceiling, carpet with lots of wood furniture and fireplace on one side wall and 2 openings on the other wall. Main seating position is 10' from TV and 3 feet off rear wall.
    --- The LCD sound sucks and needs improved. The sytem will probably be 50/50 music-TV-movie currently powered ny Onkyo Sr507 AVR. Tight budget and will be one piece at a time.

    thoughts on this delima?
    thanks
    Greg

    Nice furniture. Good taste!. I am ordering the Def Tech soundbar to pair with my old, old Yamaha AVR and I will hook it up as 5 channel (no sub) for light listening session at night. It will arrives in a couple day, I will let you know how the Def Tec sounds.

  6. #6

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    The original SB will not work in that space. I'd suggest a SB50 and OWM rears....minimum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo1421 View Post
    Hi Greg,

    I have not seen any discussion of where the sweet spot is for a SurroundBar, but 13 feet away seems a bit much. I sit 7 feet from my SB42 and 37" flat panel and get up to 180 degrees of surroundiness in a 5.1 set up. I added a center surround 4 feet behind me for 6.1 which helps a lot. I have not experimented much to find the sweet spot since 7 feet away works well with the 37" flat panel.
    I have used my SB42" at 13' away from it with great success however...

    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai View Post
    The original SB will not work in that space. I'd suggest a SB50 and OWM rears....minimum.
    I agree that the SB50" will give you better results.

    Cheers!
    TK

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbofus View Post
    jimbo,
    how do you like your Sharp? I have the aqous 40". Did you calibrate?
    Anyway... are you using the surroundbar as a center?
    Thanks
    Greg
    I calibrated it with a borrowed disk when I got it. Then did it again recently from the THX section of the Aliens disk from Netflix.. That left it too dark, so I boosted the brightness a bit.

    I use the SurroundBar 42 with the full 5 channel surround plus a center rear surround for 6.1. Can't think why I would just use it as a center.

    Regards,
    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    I have used my SB42" at 13' away from it with great success however... Cheers!
    TK
    Interesting. How wide it your home theater, TK?

    Jim
    5.1 System:
    Sharp Aquos 37" LCD
    Front: SDA-CRS+
    Center: CS400i
    Surround: Monitor 7A
    PSW10 subwoofer
    Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro
    NAD T955 5 channel power amplifier
    Technics SL-1710 MK2 turntable
    Audio-Technica AT14Sa cartridge
    NAD 106 pre-amp
    Panasonic DMP-BD85 Blu-Ray
    MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz

    2.0 Office System:
    Monitor 10A (Peerless)
    Outlaw 1050 receiver
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo1421 View Post
    I calibrated it with a borrowed disk when I got it. Then did it again recently from the THX section of the Aliens disk from Netflix.. That left it too dark, so I boosted the brightness a bit.

    I use the SurroundBar 42 with the full 5 channel surround plus a center rear surround for 6.1. Can't think why I would just use it as a center.

    Regards,
    Jim
    Jim,
    Do you use the surroundbar by its self ( at tmies) or with the rest of your surround system.
    I am trying to do one or the other.
    I have tried to calibrate my TV still not pleased. I will try it again when I have time.
    Last edited by mrbofus; 01-04-2010 at 12:42 PM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai View Post
    The original SB will not work in that space. I'd suggest a SB50 and OWM rears....minimum.
    Minimum... what would you suggest??
    The Surround bar would have to sit on the TV stand. Not wall mounted.
    Then If I replaced the RTi8s with Rtia3's , they also would go on the TV stand.
    Maybe my vision isnt feasable?

  12. #12

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    Have you considered in ceiling/wall speakers? Just a thought.

    I got a Yammie Sound Projector, which is great for HT, but not ideal for music. Not sure how the Polk preforms in this area.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbofus View Post
    Jim,
    Do you use the surroundbar by its self ( at tmies) or with the rest of your surround system.
    I am trying to do one or the other.
    I have tried to calibrate my TV still not pleased. I will try it again when I have time.
    The SurroundBar 42 provides 5 channels in one enclosure. This is supplemented with a center rear surround. There are no other speakers in my HT setup. Are you confusing the SB 42 with the Instant Home Theater which is two channel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo1421 View Post
    Interesting. How wide it your home theater, TK?

    Jim
    At the time of testing, I was using an area of 13' wide and about 17 to 18' long (with the staircase opening at the back) and my sitting position was approximately 13'. I was using a pair of RM20s at the back to complete the 7.1 along with my PSW110. The results were not bad at all when compared to my starting RM20 package, I had to set volume slightly higher with the SB42" which is normal considering you are using 3 extras drivers (the same ones) with the RM20 (thus my agreeing on the SB50 versus the SB42). Once my HT is fully completed, it will approximate 13' X 20' and the SB alone is out of question (however, I intend to test/audition some potential blending) and I acquired some RM30 as an upgrade for the future room size. I was originally hoping to use as a large center below the PJ screen but due to the Polk engeering I din't find a suitable way to do9 the mod yet.

    Cheers!
    TK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiko View Post
    Have you considered in ceiling/wall speakers? Just a thought.

    I got a Yammie Sound Projector, which is great for HT, but not ideal for music. Not sure how the Polk preforms in this area.
    I am not too impressed about playing music in my Polk SB42 either. Stereo or 2 channels within the same box doesn't cut it for me (even with the external subwoofer).

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo1421 View Post
    The SurroundBar 42 provides 5 channels in one enclosure. This is supplemented with a center rear surround. There are no other speakers in my HT setup. Are you confusing the SB 42 with the Instant Home Theater which is two channel?
    jimbo,
    Yes, I guess I was confused. The way I read your previous statement was you has 5.1 system ie fronts, rear, sub and center---AND you were using the SB42 as well.Thats where I got confused My bad. You are only using the SB42 and that gives a 5.1 sound... corrrect?

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbofus View Post
    jimbo,
    Yes, I guess I was confused. The way I read your previous statement was you has 5.1 system ie fronts, rear, sub and center---AND you were using the SB42 as well.Thats where I got confused My bad. You are only using the SB42 and that gives a 5.1 sound... corrrect?
    The SB provides for 5, then add the external sub for 5.1 but if I am correct, jimbo uses an extra rear center speaker for an actual 6.1 system. Some of us will use 2 rear channels to create a 7.1 system however, keep in mind the content with 7.1 is limited (however growing up) but having the extra 2 speakers will accentuate the surround effect (I am a firm believer that the more speaker the merrier).

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    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    The SB provides for 5, then add the external sub for 5.1 but if I am correct, jimbo uses an extra rear center speaker for an actual 6.1 system. Some of us will use 2 rear channels to create a 7.1 system however, keep in mind the content with 7.1 is limited (however growing up) but having the extra 2 speakers will accentuate the surround effect (I am a firm believer that the more speaker the merrier).
    That's right. If I read my Outlaw manual correctly, when the signal from right and left surround channels is identical, the processor combines them into a 6th channel, a rear center. It is a bit like the phantom center which a front stereo pair creates from a mono signal.

    Jim
    5.1 System:
    Sharp Aquos 37" LCD
    Front: SDA-CRS+
    Center: CS400i
    Surround: Monitor 7A
    PSW10 subwoofer
    Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro
    NAD T955 5 channel power amplifier
    Technics SL-1710 MK2 turntable
    Audio-Technica AT14Sa cartridge
    NAD 106 pre-amp
    Panasonic DMP-BD85 Blu-Ray
    MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz

    2.0 Office System:
    Monitor 10A (Peerless)
    Outlaw 1050 receiver
    Parasound HCA-1000A power amp
    MacPro

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo1421 View Post
    That's right. If I read my Outlaw manual correctly, when the signal from right and left surround channels is identical, the processor combines them into a 6th channel, a rear center. It is a bit like the phantom center which a front stereo pair creates from a mono signal.

    Jim
    Thanks,
    It only took 16 posts for me to catch up with the crowd. haha! I have heard more than one mention using "rears" with the SB like you mentioned.
    I need to figure out dollar for dollar 5.1 vs SB and see which would be more cost effective and give me what I am after, which isnt big movie theater thumping sound. I just want to finish off my family room with a decent sound for TV and Movie and well as music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anhchungdoan View Post
    Nice furniture. Good taste!. I am ordering the Def Tech soundbar to pair with my old, old Yamaha AVR and I will hook it up as 5 channel (no sub) for light listening session at night. It will arrives in a couple day, I will let you know how the Def Tec sounds.
    thanks,
    me, the wife and a cat. We try to keep it nice and clean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbofus View Post
    thanks,
    me, the wife and a cat. We try to keep it nice and clean.
    Than if this is your goal, the SB is for you. As pointed out by Mark (Doro) the SB50 is a better choice especially if you do not want a sub in the picture since the SB50 is supposed to provide some bass (I never had the opprotunity to try it but Doro/Mark can surely comment on this). For tidiness (if you prefer using a sub) the PSWi225 might be an option since it is wireless. I haven't seen/used it but I experimented with wireless technology and it is quite effective. I used the RocketFish and if I can recall jimbo also did, am I right (jimbo)? If you read the specs on the PSW225i (wireless sub) it is pretty close to what the RocketFish offers (same frequency at 2.4 Ghz) along with 4 selectable frequencies.

    Cheers!
    TK

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    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    I used the RocketFish and if I can recall jimbo also did, am I right (jimbo)?
    Cheers!
    TK
    No, I don't use this. I am not even sure what it is.

    Jim

  23. #23

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    I would'nt mess with a sound bar because the good one have five connections ,2 front center, 2 surround.IF you don't want to go with large speakers for your sur-round and center then I would look at a pair of RM8 for the surround and a RM8 center and a PSW-111 for the bass. the R8's have a real good sound.
    ONKYO TX-SR607
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    Sur-round-Monitor 40's
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    Quote Originally Posted by john E View Post
    I would'nt mess with a sound bar because the good one have five connections ,2 front center, 2 surround.IF you don't want to go with large speakers for your sur-round and center then I would look at a pair of RM8 for the surround and a RM8 center and a PSW-111 for the bass. the R8's have a real good sound.
    Personally, I feel the OP would be getting a better product with the SB as it uses basically the same specifications as the defunct RM10s series (lower overall bottom frequency, better quality of cabinet, larger drivers, in some cases larger tweets and better connections and I am sure I've missed some...). As mentiioned the SB50 is somewhat marginal for his size room and RM8s would surely be innefficient in his size room.

    Cheers!
    TK
    Last edited by TECHNOKID; 01-04-2010 at 10:10 PM.

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    I know i might get shot for saying this, But IMO sound bars suck ass.

    There in the same vain as HTIB.
    I was in same position when Me, my bro, and moms boy friend went in together for a home theater for my mom. She hates electronics, I considered a sound bar but it just did not cut it.

    My vote is to go for a kick ass 2.1 system. Put your money in a good sub don't waste it on a sound bar seeing as she wants you to down grade from the towers.

    A great 2.1 system will outperform a sound bar any day of the week with music and match a sound bar with HT. For the most part like 70% or more of the information gos to the front speakers any way. Stereophonic sound will image sound better then most people give it credit for.

    You will be surprised how well that preforms, I know i was with my moms. And hers is an out door home theater on a screened porch Atrium 60 and DSW 500 (wish i had a sub that nice mines a POS psw10). And that gives my set up a run for its money and its a full blown 5.1. The sound bar however is not even close.

  26. #26

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    Have you even heard the SurroundBar? Just wondering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai View Post
    Have you even heard the SurroundBar? Just wondering.
    Yes show room floor and at friends house. Was a let down each time how ever I have not heard the larger sound bar 50 but i don't think it will make much of a difference. Music just dose not sound right to me. Movies/games was ok...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai View Post
    The original SB will not work in that space. I'd suggest a SB50 and OWM rears....minimum.
    Once again Mr Doro, any suggestions? Budget friendly. Give me something to chew on.


    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    Than if this is your goal, the SB is for you. As pointed out by Mark (Doro) the SB50 is a better choice especially if you do not want a sub in the picture since the SB50 is supposed to provide some bass (I never had the opprotunity to try it but Doro/Mark can surely comment on this). For tidiness (if you prefer using a sub) the PSWi225 might be an option since it is wireless. I haven't seen/used it but I experimented with wireless technology and it is quite effective. I used the RocketFish and if I can recall jimbo also did, am I right (jimbo)? If you read the specs on the PSW225i (wireless sub) it is pretty close to what the RocketFish offers (same frequency at 2.4 Ghz) along with 4 selectable frequencies.

    Cheers!
    TK
    TK,
    I was actually considering a sub as I thought I read somewhere they do help the SB. And Also if the towers get replaced by Rtia3s the a sub would be recommended as well correct?
    Am I way off base with my thinking on this? I want to improve the sound of the Sharp 40" LCD while watching TV and to give Move time more "sound"
    We watch more TV than we do Movies and I have also considered adding a center channel and having a 2.0 or add a sub and 2.1 but I dont want to have my AVR on all the time just to watch TV. Therefore a center really wouldnt help either, correct?
    The same for the 5.1 system if I went that route, having tha AVR on to watch TV. I could just use it for Movie night but that doesnt help the TV sound for everyday watching.
    I am lost and confused in which direction to go, that why i keep asking these questions
    thanks to all who have contributed
    Greg

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo1421 View Post
    The SurroundBar 42 provides 5 channels in one enclosure. This is supplemented with a center rear surround. There are no other speakers in my HT setup. Are you confusing the SB 42 with the Instant Home Theater which is two channel?
    I guess didnt realize the IHT was 2 channel. So the IHT gives left and right only where the SB42/50 give a full 5 channel sound?
    I am on the demo list for the IHT but so far down the list I wont see it for quite a while. In home demos are the only real way to find out what works but hard to arrange.
    Thank for you input jimbo
    -Greg

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    I just demo'd the SurroundBar SDA IHT and I must say I was pretty impressed. Perfect solution for people with size restraint issues.

    -Jeff
    HT Rig
    Receiver- Onkyo TX-SR806
    Mains- Polk Audio Monitor 70
    Center- Polk Audio CS2
    Surrounds- Polk Audio TSi 500's :D
    Sub- Polk Audio PSW125
    Retired- Polk Audio Monitor 40's
    T.V.- 60" Sony SXRD KDS-60A2000 LCoS
    Blu-Ray- 80 GB PS3


    2 CH rig (in progress)
    Polk Audio Monitor 10A's

    It's not that I'm insensitive, I just don't care.. :D

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