LSi15's

[ninerbj]

With much research I have decided to buy the LSi15's, LSiC center and soon replace the S-4's I have for rears with still undecided.
Here is my problem, and I hope I can get some feedback and help...
I recieved a Denon AVR-3801 as a gift. This reciever is powering my (old but classic) S-10's in the front, S-4 rear and CS175 center and a Klipsch sub with no problems. I am afraid making the upgrade to the LSi15's and above mentioned will either smoke this 80w @ 8ohm reciever, or it will not allow me to fully show off what great sound the 15's are capible of.
Can anyone give me a educated guess what I should expect...or not expect this Denon to do with these beautiful sounding 15's?

[ninerbj]

ANYONE?????

[polkatese]

ninerbj,
do a search on this forum, posting by Mantis. He had 3801 before, and did some testing, before he moved on to Rotel. I had Denon 2802 and tried to drive the 15. No dice, and no oomph, so I went with Rotel RSX-1065 receiver. Then the clouds parted, angel sang, and the rest is history....(not that dramatic, but you get the idea..) To make LSi sings, I think you really needs to consider adequate high-current amp to power them. Your 3801 will drive LSi15, as long as you are not trying to REALLY drive them. I have an old Denon AVC-3030 DPL that I used to drive LSi9. It was rated 110 watts per channel, circa 1993. It drives the 9 adequately (it was built like a tank from the old days), but tonal quality wise, the high is bright and bordeline harsh, low is decent, mid is ok. Not a warm sounding amp, if you ask me. My .02

[ninerbj]

Thanks for the advice Polkatese...
I wish I could afford the Rotel, but you know what kind of funds I would be shelling out for the LSi15's and the LSiC.
I have written polk in hopes to find out if I can add an amp to the AVR-1803 but have not gotten a response.

1.can I add an amp?
2. If so, would this work for my dream speakers?

[RuSsMaN]

1. Yes (if the 1803 has pre-outs)
2. Yes

[joe logston]

hi ninerbj,

and welcome to polkforum,
my self i would look at e-bay for a good seperate 2 channel amp, and use the pre main out put to amp, from the denon receiver, if the avr-3801 haves the main out put. that would be the cheap way to run the lsi-15 to there max.

[polkatese]

Check with Dan (Mantis), he might still has a a couple of Rotel Pre/Pro for sale, very reasonably priced. As a matter of fact, check the flea market thread last month. But, Dan can give you the status on those puppy. I checked the 1803 manual, no, unfortunately you will not be able to add a separate power amp to it. The reason is cause it only has 1 (one) pre-out for subwoofer (major bummer!) and assuming it only spit out LFE .1 signal only. Going back to your second question, will it work with LSi? yes, but you will not be able to experience its true potential. Hope it helps!

EDIT: AVR 1803, no pre-out, AVR-3801, yes...(so, if you meant 3801, then the answer is yes, you can add amp)
I did check and learn one thing, 1803 really limited in it's expandability...

[ninerbj]

It is a 1803

[joe logston]

i though you had a 3801 sorry, just dont turn it up high with the lsi-15

[SPEAKER7]

N,

You can check out some of the pic's of Mantis Rotel gear that he has for sale from the previous postings.....




dc.:D

[ninerbj]

Thanks for all your help and advice guys. My wife ment well.

[ninerbj]

Well Guys, lets look at some other options shall we?

How bout thr rt series (RTi100 or RTi70) Any opinions there?

[Zero]

Ninerbj,

It appears as if you have taken a step back to evaluate what gear would best match what you currently have to work with. For some, this is part of the thrill of the hobby, for others, its more like a thorn in the side.

As many have already expressed, the Denon 1803 can power the LSi line, but you must prepare yourself for the possibility of putting too much strain on your reciever, and consequently damaging the speakers in the process.

In this case scenario, the RTxxxi series of speakers from Polk will suit your needs better, as you will be able to achieve more performance from this series, than you would the Lsi.

Perhaps I can lend you some minor insight into the performance of the RT100i's, seeing as how they are currently being used for HT duty on the main home theater rig. They seem to perform suprisingly well, being fairly comfortable with my modest Pioneer vsx reciever. How do you feel about powered towers? How scrutinizing are you when listening to music?

Best of luck.

Sean

[ninerbj]

I have never owned a pair of powered towers so I can't give imput one way or the other.

Like most (?) I want best of both worlds. I want my music to shine and my theater to blow me away.

[polkatese]

ninerbj,
I really think you need to audition both to appreciate them. Since you had done your research on the LSi and presumably did audition, or took a blind faith based on reviews, and decided on LSi, and later on decided to re-evaluate the options, then a visit to a dealer is warranted. I just hate to think that you would rely solely on our opinions, and be dissapointed. Explore, my friend, start driving those sales folks crazy with your persistence and comparison (that's what I do...:-))

[phuz]

I agree with polkatese here. Listen to them both quite a bit. They are two very different speakers.

Don't buy a speaker based on your current hardware. Buy the speaker that you want, then upgrade/match the hardware to it afterwords. (just keep the volume on the denon down a little till you can upgrade)

[Zero]

Phuz,

Correct me if I read Ninerbj's replies wrong, but I recall him expressing concern over being able to afford gear that would be better suited for the LSi's, ala, Rotel.

It will all boil down to what he feels he can settle for now, and how long he think it will take until he can scrounge up the free funds to purchase better gear.

Over-all, it would be best for him to do as Polkatese mentioned, to drive the salesmen crazy with his presence as he demo's his rear off.

It would also be worthwhile to make mention of Circuit Cities 30 day trial period. Circuit City carries the whole RTxxxi line. If he has a Circuit City card, he can essentially do a 30-day free trial. Of course, the same opportunity will not present itself with the LSi's.

Best of luck, niner.

Sean

[ninerbj]

Thanks for the info Sean...
I live in South Dakota...the nearest dealer is a 5 hour drive friom me.
Plane and simple, I will have to live with my AVR-1803 for awhile and to answer another query...I have only went by reviews on both the LSi series and the RT series.
Getting the Denon AVR-1803 was nothing more than failing to do my homework. Not to fault the Denon, it has a wonderful warm quality about it that we enjoy. Not to mention the options of HT.

When Polkaese say's..."Just don't turn up the LSi too loud", what exactly is not "too loud"???

At the present time I am enjoying the following...
Mains: S-10's
Center: CS175
REARS: S-4's
SUB: Klipsch 8"
Sony DVDns755vs (love the SACD!)
Hitachi 43x20b tv

I just want to do a Polk upgrade for better sound and I thought the LSi series was the way to go. But I am still under the impression my Denon will smoke more than I do.

[phuz]

I wasn't saying he had to buy a $3000 reciever to have gear better suited for the LSi line.

It wouldn't take much to save up or sell the Denon and get a nice (used) preamp and amp that will make the LSi line sing. A fine example is Dan's gear. If I remember correctly he only wants a few hundred bucks for it.

My point was that he should listen to both and get the speaker that he wants wether it be the LSi or RTi. If he doesn't get the speakers that he wants then he won't be happy and will still (or always) want the other model - whichever that may be.

The RTi line and LSi lines are very different. The speakers are one of the most important components in a system that determines the overall sound. No sense in dropping a lot of cash on a speaker that you won't be happy with. Right?

So to me, it should boild down to the type of soud/speakers that he wants (after LOTS of demo time).

[phuz]

ninerbj, what kind of music do you listen to mostly?

Either way I'm sure you'll be happy. All of the speakers discussed here are awesome.

Dan (mantis) said this once before and I think it's a good metaphor.

The LSi line is like a finely tuned italian sports car.

The RTi line is like a classic muscle car.

They are both awesome, it's just a matter of personal taste.

[polkatese]

Originally posted by ninerbj
When Polkaese say's..."Just don't turn up the LSi too loud", what exactly is not "too loud"???

But I am still under the impression my Denon will smoke more than I do.

I think it was a semantic variation of my good friend Phuz' that you are quoting...but I have implied the same thing. What we are saying here, is at higher volume, you are at risk damaging the speakers (with distortion), and the amp (with potential overheating) that will resulted in protection circuit to go off and shut down the receiver. Denon "officially" do not support 4 ohms load or lower (it stated rating is 6-16 ohms). But, the forum is in agreement that 4802/5802R will drive LSi's safely. I don't know about the 3 series, but from Dan's experience, it has issues also.

What's your budget if I may ask? perhaps we can steer you to a more cost effective dealers for your LSi?

[phuz]

As far as volume is concerned. I'd say that you should safely be able to listen to the LSi line with that reciever at normal listening levels. If you live in an apartment you could probably piss your neighbors off a little and still be safe.

You won't hear the full potential of the LSi line, but it'll be ok.

If you have a party and "crank" it, then you will be in trouble. Of course, that can happen with the RTi line as well. (I've put a couple of recievers into protection mode during parties with my older JBL and Yamaha speakers rated at 6 and 8 ohms)

[Zero]

Phuz,

I trust its fair enough for me to state that no one here implied or encouraged the thought of a $3000 reciever being the only capable source to drive the LSi's.

In reference to Dan's gear. One must bear in mind that his Rotel amp and pre-amp are geared towards two channel listening, not theater.

Such an example does raise an excellent example on how excellent sources can be acquired for very modest price's. Once we can get a prospect on Niners budget, we can all work towards suggesting possible antidotes.

I do agree that time with both speakers needs to be spent, and the purchase should be made where he feels he will be the most satisfied with.

Niner,

Do not be afraid to take your time before upgrading. As they say, patience is a virtue, and with audio....anything otherwise can leave you in the hole.

[phuz]

Originally posted by ATCVenom
Phuz,

I trust ....

[Zero]

.

[phuz]

uhhh...

[fireshoes]

Originally posted by ninerbj
Thanks for the info Sean...
I live in South Dakota...the nearest dealer is a 5 hour drive friom me.

That wouldn't be a five hour trip to Des Moines, would it? :)

[Dr. Spec]

Only skimming this thread....but don't buy LSi and pair it up with the Denon 1803.

The 1803 doesn't have the high current capability to drive the low/reactive impedance LSi line. It's simply a poor match-up and this has been expressed on several forums.

If you want to keep the 1803, then get the impedance and amp friendly RT line. If you want LSi, then get a different AVR or separates.

My 3803 has a stellar pre/pro section and pre-outs for all 7 surround channels. If I ever wanted to look at LSi, I'd add a 7 channel Adcom (or equivalent).

Doc

[mantis]

ninerbj,
bottom line is NO you can't use the Lsi 15's with that receiver.NO.
The 1803 isn't designed to carry heavy load speakers.SO my friend your going to have to rethink your speaker choice.If you like polk then the R series or rt series is up your alley.The 1803 will drive them with ease.

If your desire is the Lsi15's and company,then you need to get the 1803 out and get something better,alot better.

I just wanna thank everyone here for giving my Rotel 2 channel seperates a push,there still for sale.They just sit here with no one to play with them....shame I feel like I'm wasting them......they do need a happy home.Thanks again.

As doc pointed out,even at the Denon avr3803,it's not cut out for heavy loads.No lsi there.I know this not fro spec's but from experience.I owned the avr3801,which was a great reciever but not for LSI.It simply struggled.Sounded terrible trying to drive the Lsi's.

[burienboys]

Greetings:

LSi speakers like or should I say demand high current amplification. I am living proof. Tried to use LSi's with an Integra receiver and believe me, it does not work! After much research, I finally bit the bullet and took advice from Dan and others on this forum and purchased a Rotel RMB 1075 amp. Hooked it up Thursday and the only thing I can say is, "HOLY ****!!"
The difference between night and day wouldn't do this comparison justice. It is simply incredible. And this is still using my Integra as a processor. Before adding the Rotel, my receiver would clip at 92-95 db, now over 100db just gets these babies singing...If I didn't know better, I would think someone installed a whole new system when I wasn't looking....guess you get the point.
I'm a believer now
"Go Big or Go Home"

Rick aka-rickfaldo