The Grateful Dead

[Derrick4Real]

+1 on the Spring 77 box set. That would be an instant best seller for sure. I'd definitely be snagging it.


So...what's the best version of 5/8/77 you can find? I'm just looking for a 2 channel mix, not the 5.1 mix that's been mentioned previously.

I find it incredible that 5/8/77 hasn't been officially released yet. It's considered by many Deadheads to be THE best show ever, and is in the top 5-10 for almost all other heads. That show would be flying off the shelves.

I just finished making my way through the Winterland 73 box set. There's really some awesome material on here.

The Eye's on the last disc is nothing short of breathtaking. The last disc is also home to probably the best Sugar Mag I've ever heard. The last 3 or so minutes aren't so much Sugar Mag, as "here's Jerry Garcia bearing the innermost depths of his soul to you through his guitar". Some definite tear-jerkin' Jerry moments there for sure.

I've given the 73 box a listen...but I havent "listened" to it completely yet...looking forward to it.

I have 4 sbd sources, 2 aud sources and close to 9 versions of 5/8/77. It was actually a quest of mine back in the day to get every good source of Cornell ever put in to circulation. In my opinion...there only two non 5.1 board sources to get. #1 for a great Matrix which is a 2009 clean-up/re-master of Rob Eaton's DBX decoding from 1999. And #2 for the classic Betty Board most of us heard for the first time many moons ago...with great Aud patches for the missing SBD segments.

1. gd77-05-08.mtx.seamons.97274.sbeok.flac16 Seamons (MTX)

2. gd77-05-08.sbd.hicks.4982.sbeok.shnf (Hicks Fix SBD)

Interesting Reading:
From Dick Latvala (circ. 1999)

ABOUT 20 SHOWS THAT WOULD BE BETTER RELEASES THAN 5/8/77, FROM THE YEAR OF 1977.

1) 2/26 & 2/27- The first 2 shows of the year, and together would make
a much better and way more fulfilling listening experience than
Ithaca.

2)3/18->20/77- Winterland (although none stands alone completely,
together a 3-4 cd release seems an obvious choice.)

3) I have to pass on the Palladium, NYC shows, since I have never heard
them. They need to be baked and dbx decoded and we haven't got to a
whole slew of tapes in similar condition.

4) Both the night before and the night after (5/7 & 5/9) would be more
pleasing as releases.

5) I haven't heard the Chicago shows, but I have heard from friends
that something happened at one of them anyway.

6) The shows on 5/15, 5/17, 5/18 and 5/21 are each deserving notation,
and although they don't match up with 5/22, they are each more
satisfying than 5/8.

7) From what I hear from others (and what I saw myself, i.e., 5/2,
the final 3 shows from this amazing month of performances are each
worthy of many listenings.

8) Unfortunately, the 6/4 show in Los Angeles is missing from the
vault and from anyone's tape collection, as far as I know. Otherwise I
would toss this one in the pile of special shows.

9) The run of 3 at Winterland on 6/7->9, has some exceptional playing,
but not within a single night, so this should probably be a
compilation of the 3 shows, with most of the emphasis on the first 2
nights.

10) Englishtown (9/3) needs no mention!

11) October is another of those months where there seems to be a
disproportionate number of excellent performances. The downside is
that the quality of the recordings leaves something to be desired. In
the first tour during this month, the standouts are 10/11, 10/12,
10/14 and 10/16. I think all three at the end of the month are
qualifiers (10/28, 10/29 and 10/30).

12) Each of the next 5 nights rips Ithaca. But the 11/4->6 shows are
difficult to choose between. If I had to pick one of the three, I
would have to go with 11/6, although Rob Bertrando's choice of 11/4 is
pretty hard to pass up.

13) I think that many have overlooked the last 2 shows of the year,
since 12/29 was so startling. Neither approaches the completeness of
12/29, but I remember some fine playing during the 2nd set jams from
both nights.

So maybe this doesn't total 20 shows, but it gives a pretty clear idea
of where I place 5/8/77 amongst the meat from this year. I don't feel
it's necessary to point out what is specifically lacking on the 5/8
show, since this would only further distance it from the shows listed
above.

[comfortablycurt]

I've given the 73 box a listen...but I havent "listened" to it completely yet...looking forward to it.

I have 4 sbd sources, 2 aud sources and close to 9 versions of 5/8/77. It was actually a quest of mine back in the day to get every good source of Cornell ever put in to circulation. In my opinion...there only two non 5.1 board sources to get. #1 for a great Matrix which is a 2009 clean-up/re-master of Rob Eaton's DBX decoding from 1999. And #2 for the classic Betty Board most of us heard for the first time many moons ago...with great Aud patches for the missing SBD segments.

1. gd77-05-08.mtx.seamons.97274.sbeok.flac16 Seamons (MTX)

2. gd77-05-08.sbd.hicks.4982.sbeok.shnf (Hicks Fix SBD)

Interesting Reading:
From Dick Latvala (circ. 1999)

ABOUT 20 SHOWS THAT WOULD BE BETTER RELEASES THAN 5/8/77, FROM THE YEAR OF 1977.

1) 2/26 & 2/27- The first 2 shows of the year, and together would make
a much better and way more fulfilling listening experience than
Ithaca.

2)3/18->20/77- Winterland (although none stands alone completely,
together a 3-4 cd release seems an obvious choice.)

3) I have to pass on the Palladium, NYC shows, since I have never heard
them. They need to be baked and dbx decoded and we haven't got to a
whole slew of tapes in similar condition.

4) Both the night before and the night after (5/7 & 5/9) would be more
pleasing as releases.

5) I haven't heard the Chicago shows, but I have heard from friends
that something happened at one of them anyway.

6) The shows on 5/15, 5/17, 5/18 and 5/21 are each deserving notation,
and although they don't match up with 5/22, they are each more
satisfying than 5/8.

7) From what I hear from others (and what I saw myself, i.e., 5/2,
the final 3 shows from this amazing month of performances are each
worthy of many listenings.

8) Unfortunately, the 6/4 show in Los Angeles is missing from the
vault and from anyone's tape collection, as far as I know. Otherwise I
would toss this one in the pile of special shows.

9) The run of 3 at Winterland on 6/7->9, has some exceptional playing,
but not within a single night, so this should probably be a
compilation of the 3 shows, with most of the emphasis on the first 2
nights.

10) Englishtown (9/3) needs no mention!

11) October is another of those months where there seems to be a
disproportionate number of excellent performances. The downside is
that the quality of the recordings leaves something to be desired. In
the first tour during this month, the standouts are 10/11, 10/12,
10/14 and 10/16. I think all three at the end of the month are
qualifiers (10/28, 10/29 and 10/30).

12) Each of the next 5 nights rips Ithaca. But the 11/4->6 shows are
difficult to choose between. If I had to pick one of the three, I
would have to go with 11/6, although Rob Bertrando's choice of 11/4 is
pretty hard to pass up.

13) I think that many have overlooked the last 2 shows of the year,
since 12/29 was so startling. Neither approaches the completeness of
12/29, but I remember some fine playing during the 2nd set jams from
both nights.

So maybe this doesn't total 20 shows, but it gives a pretty clear idea
of where I place 5/8/77 amongst the meat from this year. I don't feel
it's necessary to point out what is specifically lacking on the 5/8
show, since this would only further distance it from the shows listed
above.

Thanks for the recommendations for the 5/8/77 show! I'll be sure to check those out.

I've never downloaded music before(yes, NEVER...lol), but I think it's about time I figure out how this digital music downloading thingamajigger works. There are just way too many awesome Dead shows out there...and I need them all!! I think it's about time I join the technology age!...lol

That was also an interesting read from Dick Latvala! Thanks for posting it!





You've gotta get some real listening in on the Winterland 73 box set!! There's some excellent stuff on here! I've been giving it a lot of listening time lately...the second show(11/10/73) in particular. I just got done listening to that whole show a little bit ago, at REAL high volumes. It was a religious experience! I just swapped my Peerless Monitor 7A's back into my 2 channel rig a few days ago...and they've never sounded better! This last listening session has confirmed my thoughts that you'd be VERY hard pressed to find a more musical sounding speaker for around $100-150.

This 11/10/73 show is incredible though. The Bertha opener ranks among the best that I've ever heard. The Loser, Looks Like Rain and Deal in the first set are all incredible as well...Some very inspired jamming on all three.

The second disc contains a Playing In the Band>Uncle John's Band>Morning Dew
The third disc opens up with what is one of the most smokin' Big River's I've ever heard(though all three of them in this box set are incredible...I think the Big River from the third night is the best of the three). Big River is followed by an EXCELLENT Stella Blue...very heartfelt. Dig it.:)

The third disc also has an AMAZING Truckin'>Wharf Rat>Sugar Mag. I'd have to say that, without question, this is THE BEST Truckin' I've ever heard. Period. I've heard plenty of other incredible ones...but this one just blows my mind. About 6 or so minutes in, Jerry is building up some crazy intensity in his lead playing...up way high, making his guitar SCREAM...The psychedelic intensity almost starts to make your head spin...then all of a sudden the whole band just blows it up, and drops into a hard hitting, hard rockin jam, and makes all of that intensity just explode! I was seriously moved by this Truckin'.

The Wharf Rat that follows is also great! Very heartfelt Jerry vocals...the kind that can bring you to tears in an instant.

The Sugar Mag that follows Wharf Rat is also incredible, and rates among the top few Sugar Mag's I've ever heard. The lead between Sugar Mag and Sunshine Daydream is enough to make your brain melt.

This Winterland 73 box set has become a very treasured part of my music collection...to say the least.

[Derrick4Real]

Thanks for the recommendations for the 5/8/77 show! I'll be sure to check those out.

I've never downloaded music before(yes, NEVER...lol), but I think it's about time I figure out how this digital music downloading thingamajigger works. There are just way too many awesome Dead shows out there...and I need them all!! I think it's about time I join the technology age!...lol

That was also an interesting read from Dick Latvala! Thanks for posting it!

I have no problem burning the two shows I mentioned for you and sending them your way (just like the old daze). Don't hesitate to ask ;)

[comfortablycurt]

I have no problem burning the two shows I mentioned for you and sending them your way (just like the old daze). Don't hesitate to ask ;)

If you wouldn't mind, that would be really cool actually!! I've been having some problems with my computer lately...and the last couple times I've tried to burn a CD it hasn't worked right. It would burn the whole CD, but it wouldn't finalize it for some reason.

I really need to build on my '77 Dead collection. All I've got right now is 5/28/77(official release), and a copy of 5/8/77 on cassette tape with pretty sub par SQ. I'm looking forward to checking out a higher quality copy of it. I may have already asked in this thread...but what are some other good official releases from '77 that I should look into?

Thanks for the offer! I'll shoot you a PM a little later.:)

[comfortablycurt]

Just got some Dead vinyl yesterday...

Europe '72 triple live LP
Skull and Roses double live LP
Shakedown Street
Go To Heaven
Reckoning



I'd never heard Reckoning before, and gave it a spin last night. This album is incredible!! It's an all acoustic set, if you didn't know. Some excellent playing on here. Definitely some of the best live acoustic Dead I've ever heard.

[falconcry72]

the recording quality on reckoning is the best of any live officially released dead show. to lay me down, nuff said.

Just got some Dead vinyl yesterday...

Europe '72 triple live LP
Skull and Roses double live LP
Shakedown Street
Go To Heaven
Reckoning



I'd never heard Reckoning before, and gave it a spin last night. This album is incredible!! It's an all acoustic set, if you didn't know. Some excellent playing on here. Definitely some of the best live acoustic Dead I've ever heard.

[comfortablycurt]

the recording quality on reckoning is the best of any live officially released dead show. to lay me down, nuff said.

I just got done giving this one another spin actually. Some truly incredible playing on this one...and as you said, the SQ is some of the best that I've ever heard from an official live Dead release.

This is also one of the BEST performances of To Lay Me Down that I've ever heard...if not THE best.

Jerry's acoustic playing on Reckoning is some of the best guitar work I've ever heard from him...that man knew how to make a guitar weep, laugh and do everything else in between. Truly incredible stuff.

Dark Hollow and China Doll are both nothing short of absolutely breathtaking...This is probably THE best Jack-A-Roe I've ever heard...it jams like no other.

The whole first side of the 2nd LP is incredible. Deep Elem Blues, Cassidy and To Lay Me Down...all absolutely incredible. Bird Song and Ripple are two of the most beautiful Dead songs out there, and the versions of them on here rank above the best I've ever heard. If only Jerry had busted out the pedal steel on Ripple...





That brings me to another question, hopefully someone can answer it for me. Back in the day, did Jerry ever bring a pedal steel on tour, or did he use them exclusively in the studio? I know he brought one with on the "Dylan and the Dead" tour...but for the most part, the playing from that tour was less than stellar. That's disappointing, because Bob Dylan is another one of my favorites.

I know he essentially gave the pedal steel up after 1973 or so...and IIRC Ripple was the last song he ever recorded on pedal steel(with the Dead anyway).

What other studio Dead songs had pedal steel? The only two I know offhand are Ripple and Friend Of the Devil.

I've also heard some of his pedal steel work with other musicians, but nowhere near all of it. I've heard some of David Crosby & Friends: If I Could Only Remember My Name, which was awesome. The song Laughing has some of the greatest pedal steel work I've ever heard. I really need to get that album...

"Teach Your Children" by CSN&Y is another excellent song, with some great steel work by Jerry.

I know he also did a lot of steel work with The New Riders Of the Purple Sage. I've never really listened to The New Riders very much...should I pick some of it up? If it was touched by Jerry, it's gotta be good. Right?



So, anyone have any suggestions on some stuff to pick up that showcases Jerry's pedal steel playing? Are there any live Dead shows out there that have a pedal steel, or is that a pipe dream?...lol

[stuwee]

I'm going out on a limb with a plea, Mike Cutler from Des Moines, IA, get in touch with me PM dude it's been 30 years this May :p, miss ya bud! Craig

[comfortablycurt]

I'm going out on a limb with a plea, Mike Cutler from Des Moines, IA, get in touch with me PM dude it's been 30 years this May :p, miss ya bud! Craig

What?

[mhardy6647]

Just got some Dead vinyl yesterday...

Europe '72 triple live LP
Skull and Roses double live LP
Shakedown Street
Go To Heaven
Reckoning



I'd never heard Reckoning before, and gave it a spin last night. This album is incredible!! It's an all acoustic set, if you didn't know. Some excellent playing on here. Definitely some of the best live acoustic Dead I've ever heard.

The live albums in this list are all excellent :-)

[falconcry72]

If you wouldn't mind, that would be really cool actually!! I've been having some problems with my computer lately...and the last couple times I've tried to burn a CD it hasn't worked right. It would burn the whole CD, but it wouldn't finalize it for some reason.

I really need to build on my '77 Dead collection. All I've got right now is 5/28/77(official release), and a copy of 5/8/77 on cassette tape with pretty sub par SQ. I'm looking forward to checking out a higher quality copy of it. I may have already asked in this thread...but what are some other good official releases from '77 that I should look into?

Thanks for the offer! I'll shoot you a PM a little later.:)

These are the official releases I know about from 77; I know about them because I have them:

-dicks picks 3
-dicks picks 10
-dicks picks 15
-dicks picks 29
-dicks picks 34
-download series #1
-road trips 1.2
-to terrapin, hartford 77
-winterland 77 box set

I also have about a hundred non-released live shows from this year.

77 is not one of my favorite years; I'm a a 68-74 guy overall, but really, a 70-72 guy.

Let me know if you want to trade, or just receive, copious amounts of lossless dead.:)

[falconcry72]

Oh, and curt, I have a recording of a live pedal steel festival in St. Loius from 1976 that you should give a spin. It fits under this thread because it was taped by the somewhat infamous early dead taper Monte Barry. He was allowed to plug into the soundboards at the festival and got about 3 CD's worth of great material. He just recently found the tapes in a closet full of stuff. Lots of improv, and very good SQ.

Some of the best playing on it is by a guy named Buddy Emmonds- great jazz-inspired pedal steel player. Shoot me a PM and I'll mail you some discs.

[gdb]

I think I smell weed and patchouli !:D

[comfortablycurt]

These are the official releases I know about from 77; I know about them because I have them:

-dicks picks 3
-dicks picks 10
-dicks picks 15
-dicks picks 29
-dicks picks 34
-download series #1
-road trips 1.2
-to terrapin, hartford 77
-winterland 77 box set

I also have about a hundred non-released live shows from this year.

77 is not one of my favorite years; I'm a a 68-74 guy overall, but really, a 70-72 guy.

Let me know if you want to trade, or just receive, copious amounts of lossless dead.:)

I'd love to trade you some stuff. I'd love to check out more of the '77 shows. I've really dug what I've heard from 77 so far. I don't know if I've really got much that you don't have though...

As far as 68-74 goes, I've only got Fillmore '69, Three From The Vault and a couple bootlegs...can't recall the dates offhand. I've got a pretty good version of 6/28/74, but I don't have the first set. Also...2/19/72...IIRC. I've also got the Winterland '73 set.

I've also got several bootlegs from 93-94. I've got a great sounding copy of 7/20/94.

I've got some other stuff too...but it escapes me now. If you want any of that, I'd be happy to trade you.

If not, I'd be happy to receive some shows!!:D

Oh, and curt, I have a recording of a live pedal steel festival in St. Loius from 1976 that you should give a spin. It fits under this thread because it was taped by the somewhat infamous early dead taper Monte Barry. He was allowed to plug into the soundboards at the festival and got about 3 CD's worth of great material. He just recently found the tapes in a closet full of stuff. Lots of improv, and very good SQ.

Some of the best playing on it is by a guy named Buddy Emmonds- great jazz-inspired pedal steel player. Shoot me a PM and I'll mail you some discs.

I'd love to check that out. I've had a voracious appetite for pedal steel material lately...and something like that would help quite a bit to appease it.:)

I think I smell weed and patchouli !:D

-sniffs shirt-

Yep, that'd be me.;):)

[gdb]

True or False, anyone ??

GRATEFUL DEAD
Refers to a series of Old English folk tales with the same basic theme. A traveler enters a village and finds the villagers desecrating, or refusing to bury the body of a dead man because he died owing creditors money. The traveler pays the dead man's debts and sees to a decent burial. Later in his travels the man is saved by a mysterious event, which is credited to the dead man's grateful spirit. Hence, the Grateful Dead. The band was originally the Warlocks, and picked Grateful Dead out of a dictionary after realising there was another band called the Warlocks.

[Derrick4Real]

I just got done giving this one another spin actually. Some truly incredible playing on this one...and as you said, the SQ is some of the best that I've ever heard from an official live Dead release.

This is also one of the BEST performances of To Lay Me Down that I've ever heard...if not THE best.

Jerry's acoustic playing on Reckoning is some of the best guitar work I've ever heard from him...that man knew how to make a guitar weep, laugh and do everything else in between. Truly incredible stuff.

Dark Hollow and China Doll are both nothing short of absolutely breathtaking...This is probably THE best Jack-A-Roe I've ever heard...it jams like no other.

The whole first side of the 2nd LP is incredible. Deep Elem Blues, Cassidy and To Lay Me Down...all absolutely incredible. Bird Song and Ripple are two of the most beautiful Dead songs out there, and the versions of them on here rank above the best I've ever heard. If only Jerry had busted out the pedal steel on Ripple...

That brings me to another question, hopefully someone can answer it for me. Back in the day, did Jerry ever bring a pedal steel on tour, or did he use them exclusively in the studio? I know he brought one with on the "Dylan and the Dead" tour...but for the most part, the playing from that tour was less than stellar. That's disappointing, because Bob Dylan is another one of my favorites.

I know he essentially gave the pedal steel up after 1973 or so...and IIRC Ripple was the last song he ever recorded on pedal steel(with the Dead anyway).

What other studio Dead songs had pedal steel? The only two I know offhand are Ripple and Friend Of the Devil.

I've also heard some of his pedal steel work with other musicians, but nowhere near all of it. I've heard some of David Crosby & Friends: If I Could Only Remember My Name, which was awesome. The song Laughing has some of the greatest pedal steel work I've ever heard. I really need to get that album...

"Teach Your Children" by CSN&Y is another excellent song, with some great steel work by Jerry.

I know he also did a lot of steel work with The New Riders Of the Purple Sage. I've never really listened to The New Riders very much...should I pick some of it up? If it was touched by Jerry, it's gotta be good. Right?

So, anyone have any suggestions on some stuff to pick up that showcases Jerry's pedal steel playing? Are there any live Dead shows out there that have a pedal steel, or is that a pipe dream?...lol

Curt...here is some JG pedal steel lineage for you. The only time that comes to mind for me...is when he busted it out in 87 (like you said). I wasn't a big fan of that tour myself:
---
During Garcia's "pedal steel flirtation period" (as Bob Weir referred to it in Anthem to Beauty), from approximately 1968 to 1973, he played a ZB Custom D-10 steel guitar, especially in his earlier public performances. Although this was a double neck guitar, Garcia often would choose not to attach the last 5 pedal rods for the rear or Western Swing neck. Additionally, he was playing an Emmons D-10 at the time of the Grateful Dead's and New Riders of the Purple Sage's final appearances at the Filmore East in late April 1971. Also, he had been given a Fender Pedal Steel (probably a 1000 model) prior to owning the ZB Custom, but did not play it much.
In 1969, Garcia played pedal steel on two notable outside recordings: the track "The Farm" on the Jefferson Airplane album Volunteers; and the hit single "Teach Your Children" by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young from their album Déjà Vu, released in 1970. Garcia played on the latter album in exchange for harmony lessons for the Grateful Dead, who were at the time recording their acoustic albums Workingman's Dead and American Beauty.
---

[Derrick4Real]

True or False, anyone ??

GRATEFUL DEAD
Refers to a series of Old English folk tales with the same basic theme. A traveler enters a village and finds the villagers desecrating, or refusing to bury the body of a dead man because he died owing creditors money. The traveler pays the dead man's debts and sees to a decent burial. Later in his travels the man is saved by a mysterious event, which is credited to the dead man's grateful spirit. Hence, the Grateful Dead. The band was originally the Warlocks, and picked Grateful Dead out of a dictionary after realising there was another band called the Warlocks.

what is the question you are asking about? I would say TRUE bc all of what is in that definition is correct.

[comfortablycurt]

Curt...here is some JG pedal steel lineage for you. The only time that comes to mind for me...is when he busted it out in 87 (like you said). I wasn't a big fan of that tour myself:
---
During Garcia's "pedal steel flirtation period" (as Bob Weir referred to it in Anthem to Beauty), from approximately 1968 to 1973, he played a ZB Custom D-10 steel guitar, especially in his earlier public performances. Although this was a double neck guitar, Garcia often would choose not to attach the last 5 pedal rods for the rear or Western Swing neck. Additionally, he was playing an Emmons D-10 at the time of the Grateful Dead's and New Riders of the Purple Sage's final appearances at the Filmore East in late April 1971. Also, he had been given a Fender Pedal Steel (probably a 1000 model) prior to owning the ZB Custom, but did not play it much.
In 1969, Garcia played pedal steel on two notable outside recordings: the track "The Farm" on the Jefferson Airplane album Volunteers; and the hit single "Teach Your Children" by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young from their album Déjà Vu, released in 1970. Garcia played on the latter album in exchange for harmony lessons for the Grateful Dead, who were at the time recording their acoustic albums Workingman's Dead and American Beauty.
---

Interesting stuff! Thanks for the info.

I've heard the story about Jerry laying down the pedal steel tracks for Crosby in exchange for vocal harmony lessons...but I don't think there's really much truth to it. Every time anyone asked Jerry or Crosby about that story, they denied it, and claimed to have no idea where the rumor came from. There's no doubt that the Dead's vocal harmonies did get substantially better around 70-71...but I don't think there was ever really any official "deal" between them. There may have been some unofficial lessons/tips from Crosby though, of course. No one can deny that the Crosby, Stills and Nash vocal harmonies are some of the best that have ever been done.