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  1. #1

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    Default Say it aint so.... Carver Digital is an EMO?

    I want to be up front here that this is NOT a bash thread!!!! It is a shame to have to begin a thread with such a disclaimer.


    There is a Carver Digital HT amp for sale on Ebay, and from a spec/appearance standpoint, it favors the Emotiva pretty heavily. I do know that Phoenix Gold bought Carver, but around the time this amp was to be released, they lost the rights to the Carver name and the project was scrapped. This amp is very rare, but I bet not highly sought after as it is not really a Carver design. The question is did this amp become the beginnings of the Emotiva line? I know there is a relationship there somewhere because the Sunfire Preamp served as the basis for an Emotiva unit.

    I am only looking to solve a bit of a mystery here and hope someone here will know the answer.:)

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Carver-HPA-...item588639588d
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 02-22-2010 at 10:55 PM.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

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    Are you asking whether the Emotiva XPA-5 is a "clone" of the Carver HPA 5.1 amp? There is definitely some similarity between the two. As I own a pair of XPA-5 amps as my signature shows, it would be interesting to know their pedigree.

    The Carver amp has a 2 ohm rating whereas the Emotiva amp is rated to 4 ohms. This may be for warranty purposes. The 8 ohm and 4 ohm power ratings are the same.
    Let's see what happens.
    Last edited by xcapri79; 02-22-2010 at 11:11 PM.

    Main HT/2 ch:
    Pioneer SC-07, BDP-05FD, Emotiva XPA-5 x 2, XPA-1 x 2,
    Polk Audio LSi25, RTi12 x 2, LSi15 x 4, LSiC x 2, PSW1000 x 4,

    MB HT/ 2 ch:
    LG 47LM5800, Pioneer SC-1523, BDP-23FD, Sony BDP-S790, Emotiva XPA-2, XPA-5,
    Polk Audio LSi25,15, CSi5, LSiFX, PSW505 x 4

    Listening Room 2 ch:
    McIntosh MC122, MC162, MC202, C15, C41, C42, MA6500, MA6900, MCD201, MCD301, MR85, MX130, MX134
    Emotiva RSP-2, RPA-1, ERC-2
    Adcom GCD 750, GFP 750, GFA 5802
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  3. #3

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    I am thinking that perhaps The guys at Emo got their hands on this amp design and made the XPA-5 from it. As I said, the specs are spot on or very close, as is the use of individial amp modules within the chassis. And with the link between Emo/Sunfire(after Bob left) there is a lot of smoke there. It would be very interesting to know.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    I am thinking that perhaps The guys at EM design and made the XPA-5 from it.
    The Carver appears to be a class H power amp, the Emotiva is a class A/B. Only real similarity I see, is that they are both 5 channel. I doubt the guys at Emo "got their hands on this amp", amps are simple to design, no need for corporate espionage.

  5. #5

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    Whoa... interesting.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    The Carver appears to be a class H power amp, the Emotiva is a class A/B. Only real similarity I see, is that they are both 5 channel. I doubt the guys at Emo "got their hands on this amp", amps are simple to design, no need for corporate espionage.
    OP is talking about the MPS-1 and 2 which is in fact H class amp.
    Video: LG 55LN5100/Samsung LNT4065F
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    HT: POLK SPEAKERS RTi6, FXi3, CSi5 - Sub SUB-1200
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  7. #7

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    Big surprise.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  8. #8

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    Does the emo weigh 84 pounds?
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.

  9. #9

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    It's possibile, the MPS-1 was released in early 05 while the Carver unit was first announced in 04 but was never shown until 06, so which came first?....does it really matter? If you have been around long enough you will see many similarities between different company amps as a majority made overseas come from the same small group of manufactures.

    The MPS-1 weighed in at 115lbs.
    http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/a...view-and-setup

    Carver back panel:


    EMO MPS-1

  10. #10

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    I would just love for that to be true but of course Bob has washed his hands of that company for the Carverites. This made my day. TY Matt!

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    I'd like to put $20 down that it's the same amp. Those modules are visually IDENTICAL, down to the mounting screws, and that's just a bit too much coincidence for me.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

  12. #12

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    They have the same blue lights. Hummm.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai View Post
    I would just love for that to be true but of course Bob has washed his hands of that company for the Carverites. This made my day. TY Matt!

    You are right Doro... Bob had been gone for about three years at this point if I remember correctly. The Carver name and the brand went off in a very different direction by the time Phoenix Gold made these amps. There was some sort of a court fight to force Phoenix Gold from using his name during this time, and when that was settled, these amps and pre-amps dissappeared. I spoke to a guy that said thousands of them were destroyed.
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 02-23-2010 at 10:38 AM.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  14. #14

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    I wonder if Phoenix Gold makes Emotiva's amps?
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
    I'd like to put $20 down that it's the same amp. Those modules are visually IDENTICAL, down to the mounting screws, and that's just a bit too much coincidence for me.
    Looking at it I would have to put my $$ with yours. It could be the Carver/Phoenix Gold (whom ever) contracted the amp out to the company that would eventually DBA as Emotiva.

    That has to be the same as an Emotiva amp. With that in mind it will be really interesting to see what the final bid price is.

    Want to start a betting pool? I pick $700

  16. #16

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    Sounds like a safe bet concealer. It is a challenge to bring a new amp to market, but if all you need to do is drop a name on one that already exists it becomes much easier.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
    I wonder if Phoenix Gold makes Emotiva's amps?
    Phoenix Gold actually falls under RodinAudio (as well as Audiosource and Carver, Carver Digital) which itself is only a 50+/- person operation based out of Oregon. They all use overseas manufactures like Emotiva now AFAIK.

  18. #18

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    I found this little snippet while searching...

    Dan Laufman has been in business a long time, and has built OEM product for all kinds of people, including Phoenix Gold.
    It is the same amp. My guess would be that after Phoenix Gold pulled back, Dan recognised the opportunity and jumped all over it.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  19. #19

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    Given the ability of chinese companies to obtain intellectual property (legally by the government requriement to share the information before being allowed to do business in china, or illegally given their lax respect for intellectual property laws) is it possible that Emotiva products are just knock offs?

  20. #20

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    Does it really matter? I mean, how does it sound?

    I don't care, really, if it's a turd in a coffee can....if it sounds good, it sounds good.

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    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

  21. #21

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    I don't know about calling them knock-offs, but I think it safe to say that their pricing has dropped considerably from when this was built...

    http://emotiva.com/mps2.shtm

    This is a link to the sale page for the amp. 1700 bucks new, and their new gear sells for half that price. For me this is a clear indication that this amp and the Emotiva brand started life as someone else's design.


    I think this is pretty much case closed on this one.... Thanks guys for all the help.:)
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 02-23-2010 at 11:24 AM.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyD View Post
    Does it really matter? I mean, how does it sound?

    I don't care, really, if it's a turd in a coffee can....if it sounds good, it sounds good.

    BDT
    If it costs more, wouldn't that matter? Kinda like Lexicon vs OPPO?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt34 View Post
    Phoenix Gold actually falls under RodinAudio (as well as Audiosource and Carver, Carver Digital) which itself is only a 50+/- person operation based out of Oregon. They all use overseas manufactures like Emotiva now AFAIK.
    if im not mistaken stillwater designs and kicker are in there as well.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by devani View Post
    OP is talking about the MPS-1 and 2 which is in fact H class amp.
    Really? I quoted what the OP said:

    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    I am thinking that perhaps The guys at Emo got their hands on this amp design and made the XPA-5 from it.

  25. #25

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    yeah... I was wrong on that. Never quote me before the first beer.:D
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  26. #26

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    Very intresting thread. Makes me want to bid on it.
    Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    For me this is a clear indication that this amp and the Emotiva brand started life as someone else's design.
    How do you make this conclusion? Isn't it also possible that the designer for this amp and the Emo's are the same, that they just sold under Phoenix Gold first and then went their own way?
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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetmaker737 View Post
    How do you make this conclusion? Isn't it also possible that the designer for this amp and the Emo's are the same, that they just sold under Phoenix Gold first and then went their own way?

    The amp was first designed for Phoenix Gold and was to be sold under the Carver Digital name. The founder of Emotiva worked as a marketing rep for a company called Homni, a small(at that time) electronics company in China. Just prior to Bob leaving Carver Corporation, they had begun to farm out circuit board design to them. After Carver was sold to Poenix Gold, that relationship deepened, culminating in the amp we are talking about.

    Prior to it's introduction to market, the contract to build them was desolved due to Phoenix Gold loosing the rights to the Carver name. Phoenix lost the rights to the design when the contract was cancelled. By this time, Dan Laufman had aquired a significant ownership stake in Homni. He rebranded this amp as Emotiva. The rest is history.... I spoke to Bob C. about this today.:) His recollection of events is not 100% because he was not involved with the company any longer when these events occured.
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 02-23-2010 at 07:40 PM.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  29. #29

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    When you want the straight ****, ya' gotta go to the horse's mouth. There it is folks.
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.

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    It's still embarassing.

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