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Thread: Sonic Cap help

  1. #1

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    Default Sonic Cap help

    I am replacing some small value caps around the op-amps in my Adcom dac.

    What's the difference between using the Sonicap Gen I or Gen II for this application. I need to get them ordered before the sale ends. The Gen II's physically are a tad smaller.

    Any ideas which to get for this application? I need these values

    (2) 0.022uF
    (2) 0.0039uF
    (2) 0.0027uF

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  2. #2

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    Dammit...................NM, I should learn to read

    The Gen I is basically a fairly balanced capacitor. However, some find our "balanced" slightly thin and bright compared to the more lush "colored" capacitors which would include the Gen II. While the Gen II has a nice Midrange bloom, Gen I has a slight advantage on the freq extremes (top and bottom).

    Still you can add your impressions

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  3. #3

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    The size of the gen 1's are only slightly larger than the stock caps in there. They fit in perfectly.

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    Go with the Platinum's, if at all possible.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Go with the Platinum's, if at all possible.
    The problem is the correct sizes, they don't got.

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    I ordered the Gen 1's,, I hope to have them tomorrow,, and for those of you who perform this mod,, there is a "bonus" tweak,, compliments of Fred that I have already disclosed to backsigns,, and H9 yours will be in your package.;)


    If anyone here owns an Adcom DAC,, this is a mandatory mod. ;)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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    Quote Originally Posted by backsigns View Post
    The problem is the correct sizes, they don't got.
    Have you asked Jeff or Elliot for custom values?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    No, but I never thought to.

  9. #9

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    Ok, just ask and they will do their best to accommodate.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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    3 issues with the Platinums Jesse,

    1) hate to say it but cost. Not building a balls to the wall mod here.
    2) physical size is a big concern as real estate is very limited.
    3) values are way off

    I need 2 of each

    0.022uF is avail

    0.0027uF and 0.0039uF aren't close to anything they have, not that they couldn't custom make them for me. Just guessing I'd have more than $120 just in Platinums.

    I am going with the Gen II's just because of the description of having some midrange bloom. I really want Auricaps but they don't make the values I need.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  11. #11

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    Gotcha.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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    You can use Relcaps for the tiny values.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    You can use Relcaps for the tiny values.
    Do you think that would be a better choice sonically? Where should I ge them from?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  14. #14

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    Sonic Craft sells them. I believe Jeff recommends them in some applications over Sonic Caps, I've give him a call or email him.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    Sonic Craft sells them. I believe Jeff recommends them in some applications over Sonic Caps, I've give him a call or email him.
    Sounds good. I'm not even sure how much impact these have, but I'm guessing they must, or Adcom wouldn't have used higher quality mylar caps in those positions at the time.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    You can use Relcaps for the tiny values.
    Good suggestion.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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    What type of caps were in there originally? What voltage rating do you need? Are they coupling caps or bypass caps? With small values like that, you might need to look at another type of cap all together. Maybe a polystyrene cap.
    Last edited by billbillw; 02-26-2010 at 12:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Good suggestion.
    Except now I can't make up my mind. Well sort of since Relcaps don't have a .022uF cap. They have the other values.

    Decisions, decisions :p
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by billbillw View Post
    What type of caps were in there originally? What voltage rating do you need? Are they coupling caps or bypass caps?
    I believe coupling and they are poly's rated at 100V I need these values

    2700 pF or .0027uF
    3900 pF or .0039uF
    .022uF

    and they need to be small to fit in a very tight spot.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    Are they the yellow caps, C540/543, C541/544, and C560/561? As far as I can tell, those are all bypass caps. Are you just changing them for an upgrade or due to damage? I honestly don't think changing them will have much effect on the sound. Have you looked around over at DIYaudio to see if anyone else is doing mods on this DAC?

    EDIT: I checked and nobody at DIYaudio seems to be talking about the GDA-600.

    Honestly, after looking at the scat, I'd focus on the power supply and the actual opamps. That's where your biggest gains will be.
    Last edited by billbillw; 02-26-2010 at 01:09 PM.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by billbillw View Post
    Are they the yellow caps, C540/543, C541/544, and C560/561? As far as I can tell, those are all bypass caps. Are you just changing them for an upgrade or due to damage? I honestly don't think changing them will have much effect on the sound. Have you looked around over at DIYaudio to see if anyone else is doing mods on this DAC?
    Yes those are the ones. I have been talking with George Daniel about his mods and am going forward with everything he has done so far. I thought since I was in there doing everything I might as well replace those too. They used polys in there for a reason. If you don't think it will matter then I can save about $40.

    Here's thread. Some additional caps are added to the op-amps and then grounded so maybe replacing the yellow poly's isn;t going to have any impact.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97185

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  22. #22

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    I doubt you'll hear $40 worth of improvement, but I'm not a guru on this DAC. However, I'm pretty sure those are just used as filter/bypass caps to clean up the signal coming off the DAC (remove ultrasonic and subsonic info).
    I'd ask someone who knows more about circuit design. Its not like you can't do it sometime later.

    EDIT: Looking through George's thread, I'm really surprised there is no mention of the power supply caps. After nearly 20 years, I'd be replacing those suckers. 6x2200uf plus a handful of 10uf.
    I've seen huge reductions in noise floor by replacing power supply caps. They are after all, the main components that go bad after time. Most (back then) were only rated for a few thousand hours.
    Last edited by billbillw; 02-26-2010 at 01:35 PM.

  23. #23

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    Thanks for the input. I believe the PS caps are replaced as well. I think perhaps George didn't mention it, but I think he has in subsequent e-mails to me.

    I'm sure he'll chime in when he has a chance, to clarify.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  24. #24

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    Still on the fence about Sonicaps for this particular mod. I can get all the other parts I need from Parts Connexion, thus saving me multiple shipping and minimum order charge if I have to order from another place like Sonicraft.

    The only other film caps I've found in the small values in need are Multi-caps (PPMFX). Many say the RTX line is the best but they don't make the values I need. I'm torn. What do people think of Sonicaps vs. Multi-cap PPMFX. I read one review where they felt the Sonicaps were clearly better.

    Face, F1 anyone have an informed opinion.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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