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  1. #1

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    Default 9.1 With Side-Axis

    Does anyone have a 9.1 HT with side-axis speakers? If I can get a great price on some RTi10s or 12s, then I may pull the trigger and buy them. Move the 8's to the side-axis. My Sunfire has the ability to go 9.1 with an external amp (see below from Sunfire manual). It will eventually go in a 13" x 25" home theater. I will probably either get a 2-channel amp (for just the side-axis) or a 5-channel and also bi-amp the front soundstage. Thoughts?

    I am looking for those who have actually done this or have heard it. "Big upgrade", "little or no difference", etc. Thanks.

    Side-Axis Speakers
    The TGR-3's Aux speaker outputs can be configured as two side-axis channels, or you can use an external power amplifier connected to the linelevel side-axis outputs. The side-axis signals are matrixed from the left and right front channels, so they are available in stereo as well as surround modes.
    7.3 HT: Sunfire TGR-3, Sunfire Series II, Mirage OMD-28, OMD-5 (x4), REL T1 (2), T2, Oppo 103D, Optoma HD8200PRO, 106" screen, SB Touch
    Family Room: Yamaha RX-V2700, RT25i, 42" Samsung, SB Duet
    Pool: Yamaha V2700, SQ Duet, Atrium 60 (2), Atrium 45 (3), Atrium 65sdi

  2. #2

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    Really - no one. Now I know there are a lot of "2 channel" folk around here ... but no one has seen or heard this? Are there any thoughts out there about a HT setup like this? Thanks.
    7.3 HT: Sunfire TGR-3, Sunfire Series II, Mirage OMD-28, OMD-5 (x4), REL T1 (2), T2, Oppo 103D, Optoma HD8200PRO, 106" screen, SB Touch
    Family Room: Yamaha RX-V2700, RT25i, 42" Samsung, SB Duet
    Pool: Yamaha V2700, SQ Duet, Atrium 60 (2), Atrium 45 (3), Atrium 65sdi

  3. #3

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    I have two centers, two fronts, two sides and two rears and a single sub. I consider this 7.1. The 9.1 comes from putting two additional speakers to the rear for audio I guess. In any event there aren't many, if any, really good 7.1movies out there. The Sunfire pre that I have does "matrix" the sound and now that I am running 8 channels audio out of the Oppo and into the pre I will admit that the SQ is incredible and I would say that the improvement from the 5.1 setup is noticeable. My kids and their friends have all asked what I did recently due to the improve PQ and most noticeably the sound. I do find it interesting that they would even comment as most kids take most things for granted.
    I guess to answer your question directly, I and my family have noticed a significant improvement in SQ with the additional speakers. I know that this is a result of the oppo sending out 8 channel and then the pre mixing the sound to go to the 8 channel setup. Movies and especially the ones with great sound tracks are really fantastic, they were great before but have noticeably improved. I hope I have answered your question...
    Home Theater
    Amp: sunfire cinema grand signature 5ch 425 wpc
    Side surround amp: Sunfire 2 X 300
    Processor: sunfire theater grand V
    Fronts:: polk sda-srs 1.2
    Rears: Polk LSiFX
    Side surrounds: Fxi5
    Center: (2)polk LSiC's
    Sub: svs pb-13 rosenut
    Hd-Dvd: toshiba xa-2
    Blue Ray: oppo bdp83se
    Projector: sony vw60
    Screen: Da-Lite 106"
    APC S20 Power conditioner

  4. #4

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    Default

    I have heard about 9.1, but have never "heard" it. There are very few titles in 7.1. I can't even think of any in 9.1. The guy who invented THX (can't remember his name) swears by 10.2.

    I had 7.1 at my old place and it was ok at best. I preferred 5.1 much more.

    The more speakers you add, the more speaker placement and room acoustics matter. The last thing you really want is to be able to locate the speaker with your ears. For me, matrixing the sound makes me much more aware of where each speaker is located which is something that you really want to avoid when watching movies.

    When you say "side Axis" are you referring to another set of front speakers, but wider apart? Where would you locate the speakers?

  5. #5

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    Default

    I run a 9.2 HT with DPL-IIz height channels... though I tried them briefly as Audyssey DSX width channels (which I'm guessing is kinda' similar to the side axis channels you're talking about but I can't say for sure) and I didn't really care for it. The added immersion of having the height channels far outweighed the additional sidewall speakers, though it could very well be because my mains are spaced out pretty far and toed in.

    Sorry no one else has been able to comment, but it could be because you're asking about a very specific and proprietary configuration that seems specific to Sunfire.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen

  6. #6

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    Default

    Yes, I knew it was pretty specific but I was hopeful. I attached the speaker diagram from Sunfire's manual for reference. My setup would be very close to using speakers B, C, and D in their diagram. Thanks for your insight.
    Attached Images  
    7.3 HT: Sunfire TGR-3, Sunfire Series II, Mirage OMD-28, OMD-5 (x4), REL T1 (2), T2, Oppo 103D, Optoma HD8200PRO, 106" screen, SB Touch
    Family Room: Yamaha RX-V2700, RT25i, 42" Samsung, SB Duet
    Pool: Yamaha V2700, SQ Duet, Atrium 60 (2), Atrium 45 (3), Atrium 65sdi

  7. #7

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    Yeah, position D looks similar to what Audyssey's doing with DSX Width channels, though they recommend angling them toward the seats so that the front soundstage is one big arc. That said, I don't really see why speakers there would necessarily be a good thing. It didn't offer a significant advantage in my room, whereas the height channels (which I know aren't an option here) made the front soundstage sound HUGE.

    My speaker placement was derived after mounting the speakers in multiple positions, but I ended up getting a very solid and cohesive soundfield by slightly breaking away from standard Dolby placement. My side surrounds (A in your diagram) are actually pulled slightly in front of the listening position figure just in front of the couch in your diagram), with rear surrounds (C in your diagram, placed roughly between Dolby and THX spec'd angles) helping draw the sound back so that it images in a nice clean arc around the rear. I also have my mains spaced about 30 degrees off center axis because I'm using a projector with a 100" screen. Because of the wide front placement and the side surrounds being pulled slightly forward, I get very solid imaging between the mains and side surrounds for pans, which then smoothly transitions to the rear surrounds. This configuration got me the closest to imitating what I hear in the theater, where multiple speaker arrays are used.

    Honestly, if it were me, I'd go with A&C placement (though with C toed in toward center per Dolby specs and angles) and forget D and B. In a 5.1 setup, you want the side surrounds slightly behind you... but in 7.1, you want the side surrounds directly to the sides so that you get imaging between the side and rear surrounds for steering to the corners of the room. The same thing happens in large theatrical spaces, which is what 7.1 is designed to mimic.

    The only reason I could think of for bothering with placement D would be if you have multiple rows of seating and need those speakers there to better recreate the effect of a theatrical side surround array.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen

  8. #8

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squeeb View Post
    Does anyone have a 9.1 HT with side-axis speakers? If I can get a great price on some RTi10s or 12s, then I may pull the trigger and buy them. Move the 8's to the side-axis. My Sunfire has the ability to go 9.1 with an external amp (see below from Sunfire manual). It will eventually go in a 13" x 25" home theater. I will probably either get a 2-channel amp (for just the side-axis) or a 5-channel and also bi-amp the front soundstage. Thoughts?

    I am looking for those who have actually done this or have heard it. "Big upgrade", "little or no difference", etc. Thanks.

    Side-Axis Speakers
    The TGR-3's Aux speaker outputs can be configured as two side-axis channels, or you can use an external power amplifier connected to the linelevel side-axis outputs. The side-axis signals are matrixed from the left and right front channels, so they are available in stereo as well as surround modes.
    My Emotiva MMC-1 has the side-axis feature. I use it and have noticed a difference. I wouldn't call the difference dramatic, but it is noticeable.

    Joe
    Amplifiers: 1-SAE Mark IV, 4-SAE 2400, 1-SAE 2500, 2-SAE 2600, 1-Buttkicker BKA 1000N w/2-tactile transducers. Sources: Sony BDP CX7000es, Sony CX300/CX400/CX450/CX455, SAE 8000 tuner, Akai 4000D R2R, Technics 1100A TT, Epson 8500UB with Carada 100". Speakers:Polk SDA SRS, 3.1TL, FXi5, FXi3, 2-SVS 20-29, Yamaha, SVS center sub. Power:2-Monster HTS3500, Furman M-8D & RR16 Plus. 2-SAE 4000 X-overs, SAE 5000a noise reduction, MSB Link DAC III, MSB Powerbase, Behringer 2496, Monarchy DIP 24/96.

  9. #9

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    Default

    My Sunfire TGP-5 has this feature as well. I have been curious about it but do not have the room to properly set it up. I am eager to try it out some day when I have the room and the money. If it gives you the ability to reassign channels within the receiver, I would get a new amp for the mains and the internal amp for the other seven channels. This will get you the best sound for two channel listening.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

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