Well I went and did it again. If I had not found such a spectacular deal on these I would have not gotten them. The sound on these is real smooth on these and detailed but will have to evaluate further, surprising bass for just an 8" they did come with the stands but no spikes or feet, easily fixed I will make a set of both tomorrow at work. Really great shape, no holes or tears in the grills, few marks that will probably clean out, wood in good condition. Now the RTA15tl in a few weeks.