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  1. #1

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    Default lsi9 - power required to drive these?

    hello polk lovers!
    just joined the club and this is my first post.

    i am about to purchase a set of these speakers and looking at getting the onkyo tx nr3007 as my receiver. the amp is rated at 14 wpc @8ohms and 270 wpc @4ohms.
    will this be enough to give the speakers a good work out?
    also would this be enough to power the lsi15's when i step up to the big boys?

    any feed back on the lsi9 would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks

    ryan

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    That 3007 is a beast of an AVR, but be cautious about the 4ohm rating. I know it says that it is 4ohm certified, but there aren't many AVR's that can handle a continous 4ohm load. It does have a very good amp section, and the damn thing weighs 55 lbs, so if there was an AVR that could handle a 4ohm load, I would like to think it would be this one. Also, that 270W per channel is a rating at only one channel driven, so it will drop off considerably for every channel you add. I know you are asking about the LSi9's, but are you planning on running a 2.1, 5.1, or 7.1? If you run a full compliment of 4ohm speakers for either 5.1 or 7.1, even this AVR would have a hard time keeping up. Are you planning on running a center and surrounds too, or just the 9's? If I were you I would look into an external amp to run atleast your front 3 and leave the surrounds to your AVR, if you plan on running a 5.1. The amp will give the LSi's (7's, 9's, or 15's) all the power they need to perform at their potential, wheras the 3007 will do the job, but you will have to be careful with the volume knob as not to damage your speakers or send your AVR into protect mode. Brands to look into include, Adcom, Rotel, Sunfire, and Emotiva to name a few. Knowing where you want to end up when you are "done" will better help us to make suggestions on how to get there. As for the 9's, I have not heard them, but the LSi's are Polk's best of the best, so the 7's, 9's, or 15's will do wonders. Good luck and welcome to Club Polk.

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  3. #3
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    Welcome to Club Polk easyrider! IMHO higher end NAD AVRs such as the T765 handles 4 ohm loads with no problems. Other than that, I would go with outboard amplification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared View Post
    Welcome to Club Polk easyrider! IMHO higher end NAD AVRs such as the T765 handles 4 ohm loads with no problems. Other than that, I would go with outboard amplification.
    I agree with that and add B&K in there with only a very select few others but you would be better served with a better quality seperate amp for driving them to get them to perform their best.

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    WELCOME TO CLUB POLK!

    That spec for the Onkyo is NOT accurate...the Onkyo cannot drive 2 channels continuously at anywhere near 140watts/channel on a 4 ohm load...if you do you'll fry the Onkyo and the LSis....because the Onkyo REQUIRES that you select 4 ohm load from the menu and this EFFECTIVELY LOWERS the current available for 4 ohm speakers. While in the 6-8 ohm mode it can reach 270 watts for ONE channel it cannot probably get much over 60 watts in 4 ohms for LSIs....

    Add a power amp if you're going to run LSIs...the NAD mentioned above may be the exception as almost no AVR can drive LSIs with enough power in the surround mode! Not even the 5000+ Denon or 7000 dollar Pioneer Elite.

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 04-08-2010 at 08:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave shepard View Post
    I agree with that and add B&K in there with only a very select few others but you would be better served with a better quality seperate amp for driving them to get them to perform their best.
    I just purchased a B & K ST 2140 off of Audiogon for Lsi9s that were just delivered yesterday. I'm just waiting for delivery of the amp, some speaker cables and some stands and I should be in business this time next week! :D

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  7. #7

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    Default lsi9 or tsi500?

    thanks for all the replies.

    i sat in a sound room and listened to the lsi9 for about an hour on the onkyo tx-nr3007 and it sounded great but i'm concerned about running the amp into the ground with the 4 ohm load.
    should i just go with the tsi500's?
    i'm convinced that the lsi9 sounded better when switching back an fourth. of course volume fell off a little when listening to the lsi9 but it was a huge dip in volume.

    thanks

  8. #8

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    Get the speakers you want. They are one of the most important things in a system.

    The reciever will be ok initially, just keep the volume at reasonable levels. Upgrade with an amp or seperates later when you can.

  9. #9

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    Default lsi9

    thats whats been driving me nuts the past few weeks.
    i really like the way the lsi9 sounds and looks. quality of construction looks top notch as well.
    the problem is i'm in the market for speakers and a new av receiver. i don't want to dump alot of coin on this high end onkyo and then have to get another amp to drive my lsi9's.
    anyone know of a solid av receiver that is able to decode all the newest formats from blue ray players (trueHD and such) that also has good outputs that i can feed to the seperate amp for the lsi's.
    hmmm do i also want to be stuck with a bookshelf speaker thats always going to require a high current amp?

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    I run my LSi9s on a Rotel RSX-1056. I had a powerful amp that I used for years, but removed it from this setup to free up space in the rack. It still sounds great, but I don't crank it up. I'm not the slightest bit worried about it either. This is my TV/Movie/household music rig so it doesn't get a big workout.

    I have a second system that is for critical 2 channel listening. If I were using the LSi as a primary critical listening system, I'd have a seperate amp still. There are a lot of recievers you can use with them and it will sound fantastic, just not 100%, and not at reference levels.

    NAD, Rotel, B&K, McIntosh, Anthem, Lexicon, and Sunfire are a few that come to mind.

    You don't HAVE to have a seperate amp. It's best to have one, but it's not required to enjoy the LSi line.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by easyrider View Post
    thats whats been driving me nuts the past few weeks.
    i really like the way the lsi9 sounds and looks. quality of construction looks top notch as well.
    the problem is i'm in the market for speakers and a new av receiver. i don't want to dump alot of coin on this high end onkyo and then have to get another amp to drive my lsi9's.
    anyone know of a solid av receiver that is able to decode all the newest formats from blue ray players (trueHD and such) that also has good outputs that i can feed to the seperate amp for the lsi's.
    hmmm do i also want to be stuck with a bookshelf speaker thats always going to require a high current amp?
    Buy an Onkyo 707 and use the spare change to get a used power amp for the LSIs....the reason you hear the drop in sound from the TSI-500s to the LSIs is that: One the 500s are more efficient and take less power to drive loudly, and Two, the 500s are an 8 ohm load and the Onkyo has TONS of POWER for 8 ohm speakers whereas the LSIs are a 4 ohm load.

    Solution. Go with a lower end Onkyo and a higher end power amp. Buy the LSIs they are the 'better' speaker by far--especially for 'music'--and enjoy!

    cnh

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    Quote Originally Posted by easyrider View Post
    thanks for all the replies.

    i sat in a sound room and listened to the lsi9 for about an hour on the onkyo tx-nr3007 and it sounded great but i'm concerned about running the amp into the ground with the 4 ohm load.
    should i just go with the tsi500's?
    i'm convinced that the lsi9 sounded better when switching back an fourth. of course volume fell off a little when listening to the lsi9 but it was a huge dip in volume.

    thanks

    Go with the LSi9's!! For musicality, they'll walk all over those TSi500's. The LSi's are some superb sounding speakers.



    As others have said, nearly any AVR out there isn't going to be capable of efficiently powering 4 ohm speakers. External amplification would the best route to take.
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    I have a set of TSi 500's that I used for a short period of time up front in my HT rig. While I was impressed with their performance, I didn't care for the way they clashed with my CS2 center channel. They sounded very good in 2 ch mode with an amp and a buffer, but not anywhere near as good as the LSi's would out of the box. I put the 500's in the back as surrounds and picked up a set of Peerless 10A's for my 2 ch. rig in progress. I am with the guys on this one, get the 9's and a good external amp, and you will be in business.

    -Jeff
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by easyrider View Post
    hello polk lovers!
    just joined the club and this is my first post.

    i am about to purchase a set of these speakers and looking at getting the onkyo tx nr3007 as my receiver. the amp is rated at 14 wpc @8ohms and 270 wpc @4ohms.
    will this be enough to give the speakers a good work out?
    also would this be enough to power the lsi15's when i step up to the big boys?

    any feed back on the lsi9 would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks

    ryan
    If you want a two channel system, consider getting a good integrated stereo amp. The NAD C 375BEE or NAD C 275BEE Integrated Amplifiers are good choices that don't cost an arm and a leg.
    Last edited by xcapri79; 04-12-2010 at 08:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcapri79 View Post
    If you want a two channel system, consider getting a good integrated stereo amp. The NAD C 375BEE or NAD C 275BEE Integrated Amplifiers are good choices that don't cost an arm and a leg.
    Agreed, I'll be looking at a NAD 375 myself and a new set of bookshelves for a smaller 2 channel set up in my home office when I get back to the U.S. Certainly the LSis are on the short list, as are some Dalis, Totems, Focals and Dynaudios, etc.

    cnh

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    Ryan, welcome. You appear to have already answered your question better than someone else's opinion would. You listened to the LSi9s driven by the 3007 for an hour. Unless you'd listen at an unreasonably loud level(damaging to your hearing)at home, the 3007 would again do fine. Even less capable receivers than the 3007 have no problem with speakers rated at 4 ohms if sensible volume levels are employed. Be sure to leave it at the 8 ohm default setting; the lower setting should never be used since it limits the voltage output, which cuts the maximum power capacity roughly in half, increasing the possibility of damaging the speakers.

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    I'm not familiar with the 3007, but my Onkyo 805 drives my LSi9s and LSiC just fine. I crank it up occasionally, and no problems so far. I listen to movies kinda loud, but not extremely loud. As mentioned, if you don't listen at extreme volumes, you should be fine. Just make sure that on your initial setup of the receiver, set it up for 4 ohms (this is where I differ from John K). I still get more than enough power with it setup for 4 ohms. But, they say that the receivers that came after the 805, had a "downgrade" in the amp section.
    Last edited by emoxley; 04-14-2010 at 08:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K. View Post
    Ryan, welcome. You appear to have already answered your question better than someone else's opinion would. You listened to the LSi9s driven by the 3007 for an hour. Unless you'd listen at an unreasonably loud level(damaging to your hearing)at home, the 3007 would again do fine. Even less capable receivers than the 3007 have no problem with speakers rated at 4 ohms if sensible volume levels are employed. Be sure to leave it at the 8 ohm default setting; the lower setting should never be used since it limits the voltage output, which cuts the maximum power capacity roughly in half, increasing the possibility of damaging the speakers.
    Quote Originally Posted by emoxley View Post
    I'm not familiar with the 3007, but my Onkyo 805 drives my LSi9s and LSiC just fine. I crank it up occasionally, and no problems so far. I listen to movies kinda loud, but not extremely loud. As mentioned, if you don't listen at extreme volumes, you should be fine. Just make sure that on your initial setup of the receiver, set it up for 4 ohms (this is where I differ from John K). I still get more than enough power with it setup for 4 ohms. But, they say that the receivers that came after the 805, had a "downgrade" in the amp section.
    Well guys my take on your posts is this; why use a receiver or an amp that you can't play to any loudness level you wish without the fear of damaging your speakers or the amp section of the receiver? Seems you're selling youself short. I wouldn't be able to enjoy my music if I was in constant fear of where the "too loud" point is.

    IMHO get an amp that can handle the 4 ohm load with ease and be done with it.

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    Well stated Joe.

    Welcome EasyRider. The bottom line is this. Do you want to HEAR the full potential of what your speakers are capable of? If so, get either seperates, or get a receiver with preouts so you can add an amp of at least 200wpc @ 8ohms and enjoy. If not, get a cheaper receiver & watch the volume or risk damage to both the speakers & receiver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emoxley View Post
    I'm not familiar with the 3007, but my Onkyo 805 drives my LSi9s and LSiC just fine. I crank it up occasionally, and no problems so far. I listen to movies kinda loud, but not extremely loud. As mentioned, if you don't listen at extreme volumes, you should be fine. Just make sure that on your initial setup of the receiver, set it up for 4 ohms (this is where I differ from John K). I still get more than enough power with it setup for 4 ohms. But, they say that the receivers that came after the 805, had a "downgrade" in the amp section.
    I'll tell you my personal experience:
    I originally ran my two Zone 2 lsi9's directly to my old Denon AVR-2808ci (110W/channel) and my just-arrived-a-few-days-ago Denon AVR-4810ci (140W/channel). Even though both AVR can deliver enough power, the sound is so, may I say, sandy. I felt like there were sand and grit all over the sound path :D These lsi speakers sometimes dip way below 4 ohms, that might have been the major issue not to allow them to work well with the mentioned-above AVR's built-in amps.
    Well, originally I also got an Emotiva XPA-5 amp for my Main Zone speakers (containing two lsi15's - two lsiFX - one lsiC). There weren't any problem getting smooth audio output there. So I decided to add an Emotiva XPA-2 amp, then moved the lsi15's to that new amp, and plugged the Zone 2 lsi9's to the two available slots on the Emotiva XPA-5. Guess what? I have finally got rid of that sand-and-grit issue. The sound clarity even got a praise from the WAF who did not know there was a change in the set up, and that ensured me I did the right thing!

    About the Emo's, please do not chastise me for using them comparing to the B&K - Outlaw - Adcom - Sunfire - Parasound - etc. I purchased the brand new Emo's just because I didn't like buying used amps which might have been abused by heat and time. Of course, when the upgrade bug hits again, and if I have enough dough, I would consider other amps for broadening my horizon (brand new is the key). These Emo amps seemed to match pretty well with my lsi set; however I did not have any other experience with other name brand amps, so my "pretty well" opinion is just for me only :D

    I will write a lengthy report about my set up soon, after I have finished dealing with the Denon AVR-4810ci loaded features :)
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    The series "LSi Polkaudio" is 4 ohms.
    Excellent just using an external amplifier, I use Sunfire and the Denon 4308CI in preamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared View Post
    Well guys my take on your posts is this; why use a receiver or an amp that you can't play to any loudness level you wish without the fear of damaging your speakers or the amp section of the receiver? Seems you're selling youself short. I wouldn't be able to enjoy my music if I was in constant fear of where the "too loud" point is.

    IMHO get an amp that can handle the 4 ohm load with ease and be done with it.
    I have no fear of damaging my speakers, playing at high volumes. I play mine at the volume I like, which isn't extreme. I live in a basement apartment, and that's why I don't play any louder than I do, so I don't disturb the people upstairs. When they are gone, and I know they won't be back for a couple of hours, I'll crank it up, and leave it for awhile. I told the story awhile back about watching about 45 mins. of a movie, with the volume on "0", which is extremely loud. No clipping, no excessive heat in receiver, etc. Just crystal clear sound that was amazing. Now that I've added an SVS sub, it's even better! :D

    Whether the amp section of the 3007 is good enough, I don't know. My 805 can handle it though, or it has so far. It takes everything I give it, and impresses me. This is why I recommend the 805 to anyone that can find one. If the OP's 3007 got the downgrade in the amp section, I'm sorry. If not, it should be able to handle the LSi9s without a problem. If he has the LSi9s for surrounds as well, in a 5.1 or 7.1 system, I don't know. Then, he may need an amp. My system is mixed with 8 ohm speakers too. So, having a full set of 4 ohm speakers isn't something I've tried yet. I'd like to though..... :)
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    I wouldn't use any AVR as a pre-amp. Purchase a true music two channel integrated with HT By-pass...most of the suggestions given to you would merely amplify a bad signal which was butchered by a poorly designed pre-amplifier. Most users on this forum have no idea how poor their system is performing by using a AVR as a pre and buying the biggest baddest amp they can find...use the two channel integrated route and allow your ears to hear what a speaker is capable of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuSh View Post
    I wouldn't use any AVR as a pre-amp. Purchase a true music two channel integrated with HT By-pass...most of the suggestions given to you would merely amplify a bad signal which was butchered by a poorly designed pre-amplifier. Most users on this forum have no idea how poor their system is performing by using a AVR as a pre and buying the biggest baddest amp they can find...use the two channel integrated route and allow your ears to hear what a speaker is capable of.
    I totally agree about the pre (hey that rhymes)!

    Funny thing, Phil (pearsall001) had an awesome CJ tubed pre that was so lush and musical. He one day tried the pre in his NAD T765 AVR (I have the same one in my HT rig) in lieu of the CJ in his rig. He swears to this day it sounds better than the CJ and he sold it. I haven't been to his house since he made the switch so I can't comment but I think, and have told him so, that he is going backwards. The man stands by his decision so I gotta check it out. Wierd, wild, stuff I say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared View Post
    I totally agree about the pre (hey that rhymes)!

    Funny thing, Phil (pearsall001) had an awesome CJ tubed pre that was so lush and musical. He one day tried the pre in his NAD T765 AVR (I have the same one in my HT rig) in lieu of the CJ in his rig. He swears to this day it sounds better than the CJ and he sold it. I haven't been to his house since he made the switch so I can't comment but I think, and have told him so, that he is going backwards. The man stands by his decision so I gotta check it out. Wierd, wild, stuff I say.
    I just love it when guys show distain for using an AVR as a pre for a two channel system. Most of them don't even own an AVR & never plan on owning one yet bash the hell out of them for a two channel system. It's just like everything else in audio, there's AVR's & then there's AVR's, not all are created equal in their ability to function as a superb pre. The NAD brand is one of those exceptions...hell as Joe has mentioned I had a CJ tube pre & a Krell SS pre, both with HT bypass. They both did a great job & sounded wonderful...as does my NAD T765 AVR. I sold them both & don't miss them one bit.

    When are getting the hell up here Joe for a listen that will change your mind forever!!!!
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    Rotel RMB-1075 / 5 channel amp
    TEAC UD - 501 DAC
    Oppo BDP-93
    SONOS System
    KEF Q900 / mains
    KEF Q600 / center
    KEF Q800 / surrounds
    KEF Q100 / rear surr.
    Def Tech ProMonitor 1000 / front & rear presence
    Velodyne SPL-1200R subs / dual pair
    DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 sub EQ
    Equitech Balanced Power Son of Q 1.5R
    Extensive room treatments

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post
    I just love it when guys show distain for using an AVR as a pre for a two channel system. Most of them don't even own an AVR & never plan on owning one yet bash the hell out of them for a two channel system. It's just like everything else in audio, there's AVR's & then there's AVR's, not all are created equal in their ability to function as a superb pre. The NAD brand is one of those exceptions...hell as Joe has mentioned I had a CJ tube pre & a Krell SS pre, both with HT bypass. They both did a great job & sounded wonderful...as does my NAD T765 AVR. I sold them both & don't miss them one bit.

    When are getting the hell up here Joe for a listen that will change your mind forever!!!!
    Phil, I never really doubted you, well maybe some, but I trust your ears in your wierd ways, hehehe. This weekend is shot as I have to go to Allentown for funeral services for my cousin.

    How's next weekend look on your calendar? Are we going to hit Steven's place?

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    Sorry to hear about your cousin.

    Is that Allentown, Pa.--the Lehigh Valley! I grew up in the A.B.E. area...and I still have my parents house in between Easton and Bethlehem to sell on my return from China.

    My sister has moved to the Scranton area.

    It seems that every time I get to Pa. it is also for a funeral these days. My condolences.

    cnh

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    Sorry to hear about your cousin.

    Is that Allentown, Pa.--the Lehigh Valley! I grew up in the A.B.E. area...and I still have my parents house in between Easton and Bethlehem to sell on my return from China.

    My sister has moved to the Scranton area.

    It seems that every time I get to Pa. it is also for a funeral these days. My condolences.

    cnh
    Yes it is! Actually it is a really sad story. My first cousin who is a doctor, moved to Allentown to expand his practice one of his son's David when he was born didn't get enough oxygen and become moderately mentally retarded. He was 6' 5" and the most lovable, loving, fun, friendly, amusing guys you could ever meet. I loved him very much and had lots of fun with him and all his antics. We both had gootees and everytime he would see me he would grab my tee and say, "here's my gootee brother!"

    Three years ago this awesome kid developed a malignant brain tumor. He was doing very, very well but then, as usual, it grew back and it took him a year and a half to die. He was 29 years old. Broke my heart and am still heartbroken. From what I understand, as I had not seen him for a while since they brought him down to Florida to be with his brother & sister to hospice, he was very brave and cheerful pretty much to the end.

    It really hit home with me as my dad died of a brain tumor in 1980 and it was hell on him and hell to watch him go through that awful downward spiral.

    Brain cancer and pancreatic cancer runs in the family and I'll tell you it's an ugly way to die.

    Sorry for the derail. I just needed to let it out.

    Thanks for the kind words cnh.

    Joe

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    No problem, I fully understand. My mother passed a little over a year ago from a similar problem....a benign brain tumor we had removed and 'mysteriously' became unusually aggressive after several years of dormancy. We suspect that the loss of my father the year before...wore her out and her immune system just gave up. Now they're both gone and I'm 12K miles away for a year with an empty house in Pa.

    Take care of 'yourself'...don't skip those yearly physicals if you have a family history like that. My Dad was lucky...he died in an hour or so of an abdominal aneurysm about 2 summers ago but he had lived a long 'full' life, active till the end. Thanks for sharing.

    I think we should return this thread to the OP now, though...sorry easyrider!

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 04-16-2010 at 03:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    No problem, I fully understand. My mother passed a little over a year ago from a similar problem....a benign brain tumor we had removed and 'mysteriously' became unusually aggressive after several years of dormancy. We suspect that the loss of my father the year before...wore her out and her immune system just gave up. Now they're both gone and I'm 12K miles away for a year with an empty house in Pa.

    Take care of 'yourself'...don't skip those yearly physicals if you have a family history like that. My Dad was lucky...he died in an hour or so of an abdominal aneurysm about 2 summers ago but he had lived a long 'full' life, active till the end. Thanks for sharing.

    I think we should return this thread to the OP now, though...sorry easyrider!

    cnh
    all good man, i just put up a similar post up in the speaker section. please let me know your thoughts
    thanks

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