Speaker idea...

Toxis · 08-05-2005, 03:45 AM

I'm toying around with the idea of building a line array speaker. Not sure exactly how I want to go about this but found some speakers that look kinda beefy and wanted you DIY'ers opinions. Gotta love the 'bay!

This is an auction for 6 1/2" woofers, in a case of 12 drivers for $48.
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-Woofers-new-WO...QQcmdZViewItem

This is an auction for 5 1/4" drivers, in a case of 16 for $64.
http://cgi.ebay.com/5-1-4-WOOFERS-ne...QQcmdZViewItem

Thoughts? I know they don't have a name but I wanted to know how they'd work for a line array setup. 8 5.25's in each speaker or 6 6.5's... I'd still have to find a tweeter but I'd probably lean towards a nice Ribbon or maybe a Vifa silk dome. I know I'd have a lot of work to do in terms of x-over points and what-not but I'm sure that can be calculated somehow later down the road. Right now, I'm just playing around with different concepts mentally.

I found this guy online because he had some 8" subs (HERE) on sale for $40/pr. and my buddy bought a pair. He is absolutely in love with them. He built his own cabinets that look real nice and he is running an NHT sub amp on them. Impressive for a "no name" brand. So I figured why not give his other driver's a chance...

Early B. · 08-05-2005, 10:24 AM

Have you considered using full range speakers?

unc2701 · 08-05-2005, 10:53 AM

With 8 on each side you'll be able to get a more friendly impedence, but those 6.5's dig a lot lower... with the 5.25's you'll absolutely want a sub; with the 6.5's you can probably get away with out it.

If you're going to go full range, I'd say forget the line array and go single driver, high effiency.

mhardy6647 · 08-05-2005, 11:17 AM

I am not a big fan of line arrays per se. There are problems (challenges) with comb filtering between drivers and also challenging VC inductance effects when the drivers are series/paralleled to provide a reasonable impedance load for the amp to drive. The "tone" can be good but "imaging" is really weird at best IME (at least near-field). They are good for moderately long throw sound reinforcement, though.

Curved arrays can mitigate the comb-filter issue for relatively near-field listening. Another option is the so-called "Bessel array", which is actually a bit complicated.

Lots of line-array talk over the years at James Melhuish's full-range driver site and forum: www.melhuish.org and/or www.fullrangedriver.com

The venerable (and long-gone) PartsExpress 269-469 4" fullranges were quite good and inexpensive (as little as 69 cents!) drivers for full range and/or line array experimentation, FWIW. See, e.g., http://ratch-h.com/farm.html and http://ratch-h.com/69centwonder.html

burdette · 08-05-2005, 11:40 AM

Check Parts Express. They regularly have cheap buy-out speakers and the guys on their forums are always playing around with line arrays and various other set-ups to use the cheap drivers.

For example, here is an Onkyo 6" full range driver for $0.75 each (!!).

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....WebPage_ID=159

They have several styles of Onkyo 3/8" mylar tweeters for less than 50 cents each. I found another mylar tweeter, not Onkyo, 1/2", for $0.93.

There are other listings as well - other brands and price ranges.

Go to the home page, scroll down, and along the right-hand side there is a heading called "Factory Buyouts". There are also a few things in the category just above that - "Inventory Clearance".

Granted, you have to pay return shipping - but a nice thing about Parts Express (besides the great customer service and VERY helpful forums) is that you can return the stuff if you don't like it. You might not have the opportunity (and you certainly won't have the support) from an EBay buy.

neomagus00 · 08-05-2005, 01:36 PM

the bessel array isn't terribly complicated...

the O is a tweeter, the X is a tweeter wired out of phase:

Code:

OXOOO
or
OOOXO

the interesting thing to see would be a 3-D bessel array, how would that turn out?

Code:

OXOOO
OXOOO
OXOOO
XOXXX
OXOOO

mhardy6647 · 08-05-2005, 02:12 PM

http://www.prosoundweb.com/install/s...4/tt25_4_2.php

:-)

gatemplin · 08-06-2005, 01:33 AM

Unless you can measure the TS specs of those drivers, I suggest you look elsewhere. The NSB (PE) drivers might still be available here and there, and there are lots of projects already.

Toxis · 08-06-2005, 02:50 AM

Well, price wise, I think I'm gonna have to build a set of bookshelf speakers instead. *Sigh* Oh well, someday...

RuSsMaN · 08-06-2005, 10:25 AM

Come on man, go for it!!!

08-05-2005, 03:45 AM	#1
Toxis Polk Expert Member Sales Rating: (12) Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 4,192	Speaker idea... I'm toying around with the idea of building a line array speaker. Not sure exactly how I want to go about this but found some speakers that look kinda beefy and wanted you DIY'ers opinions. Gotta love the 'bay! This is an auction for 6 1/2" woofers, in a case of 12 drivers for $48. http://cgi.ebay.com/6-Woofers-new-WO...QQcmdZViewItem This is an auction for 5 1/4" drivers, in a case of 16 for $64. http://cgi.ebay.com/5-1-4-WOOFERS-ne...QQcmdZViewItem Thoughts? I know they don't have a name but I wanted to know how they'd work for a line array setup. 8 5.25's in each speaker or 6 6.5's... I'd still have to find a tweeter but I'd probably lean towards a nice Ribbon or maybe a Vifa silk dome. I know I'd have a lot of work to do in terms of x-over points and what-not but I'm sure that can be calculated somehow later down the road. Right now, I'm just playing around with different concepts mentally. I found this guy online because he had some 8" subs (HERE) on sale for $40/pr. and my buddy bought a pair. He is absolutely in love with them. He built his own cabinets that look real nice and he is running an NHT sub amp on them. Impressive for a "no name" brand. So I figured why not give his other driver's a chance... __________________ Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day. Home Setup: Panasonic AE1000U Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Denon 3805 (pre/pro), PS3, Denon DVD-2910, Myryad MA-500 5ch amp, LSi9x2 (Front and Rear), LSiC, Sunfire Super Junior Subwoofer, Sanus UF26 & NF36 Stands, and most wires by Cobalt. Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run a JL 10w6v2 in a Stealthbox, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener. Done!! Time to tune...

08-05-2005, 10:24 AM	#2
Early B. Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (19) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,172	Have you considered using full range speakers? __________________ HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub "God grooves with tubes."

08-05-2005, 10:53 AM	#3
unc2701 Polkologist Member Sales Rating: (4) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,829	With 8 on each side you'll be able to get a more friendly impedence, but those 6.5's dig a lot lower... with the 5.25's you'll absolutely want a sub; with the 6.5's you can probably get away with out it. If you're going to go full range, I'd say forget the line array and go single driver, high effiency. __________________ Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19 Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565 Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8 Backburner:Krell KAV-300i

08-05-2005, 11:17 AM	#4
mhardy6647 Polkologist Member Sales Rating: (2) Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New England Posts: 2,605	I am not a big fan of line arrays per se. There are problems (challenges) with comb filtering between drivers and also challenging VC inductance effects when the drivers are series/paralleled to provide a reasonable impedance load for the amp to drive. The "tone" can be good but "imaging" is really weird at best IME (at least near-field). They are good for moderately long throw sound reinforcement, though. Curved arrays can mitigate the comb-filter issue for relatively near-field listening. Another option is the so-called "Bessel array", which is actually a bit complicated. Lots of line-array talk over the years at James Melhuish's full-range driver site and forum: www.melhuish.org and/or www.fullrangedriver.com The venerable (and long-gone) PartsExpress 269-469 4" fullranges were quite good and inexpensive (as little as 69 cents!) drivers for full range and/or line array experimentation, FWIW. See, e.g., http://ratch-h.com/farm.html and http://ratch-h.com/69centwonder.html __________________ all the best, mrh

08-05-2005, 11:40 AM	#5
burdette Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: LR, AR Posts: 1,189	Check Parts Express. They regularly have cheap buy-out speakers and the guys on their forums are always playing around with line arrays and various other set-ups to use the cheap drivers. For example, here is an Onkyo 6" full range driver for $0.75 each (!!). http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....WebPage_ID=159 They have several styles of Onkyo 3/8" mylar tweeters for less than 50 cents each. I found another mylar tweeter, not Onkyo, 1/2", for $0.93. There are other listings as well - other brands and price ranges. Go to the home page, scroll down, and along the right-hand side there is a heading called "Factory Buyouts". There are also a few things in the category just above that - "Inventory Clearance". Granted, you have to pay return shipping - but a nice thing about Parts Express (besides the great customer service and VERY helpful forums) is that you can return the stuff if you don't like it. You might not have the opportunity (and you certainly won't have the support) from an EBay buy. __________________ Hew to the line, and let the chips fall where they may. HT: RT55i, CS400, Monitor 5jr+, Stryke 12" sonosub (flat to 15Hz) LR: Monitor 5jr+ Kitchen: M2

08-05-2005, 01:36 PM	#6
neomagus00 Polk Expert Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 4,000	the bessel array isn't terribly complicated... the O is a tweeter, the X is a tweeter wired out of phase: Code: OXOOO or OOOXO the interesting thing to see would be a 3-D bessel array, how would that turn out? Code: OXOOO OXOOO OXOOO XOXXX OXOOO __________________ It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs

08-05-2005, 02:12 PM	#7
mhardy6647 Polkologist Member Sales Rating: (2) Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New England Posts: 2,605	http://www.prosoundweb.com/install/s...4/tt25_4_2.php :-)

08-06-2005, 01:33 AM	#8
gatemplin Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,591	Unless you can measure the TS specs of those drivers, I suggest you look elsewhere. The NSB (PE) drivers might still be available here and there, and there are lots of projects already.

08-06-2005, 02:50 AM	#9
Toxis Polk Expert Member Sales Rating: (12) Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 4,192	Well, price wise, I think I'm gonna have to build a set of bookshelf speakers instead. Sigh Oh well, someday...

08-06-2005, 10:25 AM	#10
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,017	Come on man, go for it!!! __________________ If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough - when you get knocked down, you gotta get back up - Roger Alan Wade

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