finally biwired

bugner · 05-03-2002, 11:21 PM

always contemplated it, but being basically lazy, never got around to biwiring my RT 800's until tonight. One reason was that I never realized, until reading up on the subject, that spring-clip receivers like my Onkyo could still accommodate biwiring by using both the A and B outputs. So I did it. Thick Monsters for the low frequencies, thinner Monsters for the upper. Also using the PSW 450. I wasn't expecting anything dramatic, but, when putting on Van Morrison's "Bright Side of the Road," I indeed noticed a sonic improvement. Audibly improved mids and highs, a more "visual" soundstage, I guess you could say. Pretty cool. One question though....I had bookmarked, but subsequently lost, a site that I think said there should be no concern about impedance, that I shouldn't need to reset the slider on the back of the receiver, as I am in actuality only driving ONE pair of speakers, right?

GuitarheadCA · 05-04-2002, 03:45 AM

About impedence: I just finished a physics course, so I'm going to go off of what I know from the books for a second.
The bridges connect the tweeter and mid's in a parrallel circuit. When the total impedence is 8 ohms, without the bridge each post is 16 ohms. The bridge cuts the impedence in half. Thus when each tweeter and pair of mids has it's own connection, your Onkyo is actually pushing a harder load for each, which shouldn't be a problem. Problems occur when you push too few ohms (less than 6) not too many.
So you should be fine, but I'm only about 90% positive on what I just said. So someone correct me if I'm wrong.

GuitarheadCA

bugner · 05-04-2002, 06:36 PM

thanks. I just wanna be sure. The switch on the Onkyo, incidentally, is for either A OR B at 8 ohms or A PLUS B at 8 ohms. It's set at the A OR B setting now and seems to be OK, altho I have not really cranked it. yet.

RuSsMaN · 05-04-2002, 07:58 PM

Another case of ghetto bi-amping. To bi-wire, you will run the 2 sets of wire (or 1 specially made bi-wire cable) to ONE set of posts, not two.

But hey, if you like the sound, more power to ya....

Cheers,
Russ

GuitarheadCA · 05-05-2002, 01:47 AM

Hey Russman (or anyone else)- I was thinking about bi-wiring and wondering what's the best way to connect two set's of wire to one post? I like using bannana terminals, but I don't think i could fit two wires into the back of one bannana plug. Should I just bare wire one, and bannana plug the other? I do have 5-way binding posts on all terminals. I dont' want to pay for the overpriced monster biwire cable that comes with it already done.

GuitarheadCA

mantis · 05-05-2002, 10:53 AM

To bi wire.
The end into the amp.Twist both negitive wires together,as well as the 2 positive.Make them into a point counter clockwise if Monstercable,clock wise for most other wire brands.If you buy the larger gauge wire end's like Banana's crimp on you will not have any problem screwing the wire into the hole and crimping on the end.You can solder if you want,use twist-ons.I would before you terminate the end slip some heat shrink tubing over the wire first then terminate,slip heatshrink tubing back down the wire and install it right before the inserting tip.Keep you heat gun far enough away so you don't melt it, just shrink it.
You can get tricky with all kinds of pretty colors.

cgravil · 05-08-2002, 02:23 PM

it's not ghetto.... It's AFRO-ENGINEERING!!!

dylan · 05-08-2002, 03:45 PM

You might also try... replacing the jumpers with speaker wire. I did this based on suggestions on the forum, and after trying every wiring possibility I know of so far (bi-wiring included) on my 800i's, just one wire with jumpers replaced was my favorite. Just food for thought... it's probably best to try them all.

cgravil · 05-08-2002, 06:21 PM

annother thought ... I'm a bass player. When I "Bi-Amp" my cabs i actually use 3 separate amplifiers. One for Highs 3x8 One for Mids 4x10's and one for my MONSTEROUS 4x15 cab.<would this be tri-amping???>

If I run them using jumpers and one amp it sounds all mushy....

More to the point<Maybe...> to properly bi-amp shouldn't you use two (2) amps? just a curious question

Clay

danger boy · 05-08-2002, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
Another case of ghetto bi-amping. To bi-wire, you will run the 2 sets of wire (or 1 specially made bi-wire cable) to ONE set of posts, not two.

But hey, if you like the sound, more power to ya....

Cheers,
Russ

I HATE THE TERM GHETTO BI-AMPING! please stop using it.

Aaron · 05-08-2002, 08:21 PM

Quote:

I HATE THE TERM GHETTO BI-AMPING! please stop using it.

Why?

Aaron

Micah Cohen · 05-09-2002, 09:27 AM

Guys, mellow with the seemingly-racist stuff. If stuff can be misconstrued, count on it.

Wiring is multi-racial, clearly. (All those colors, twisted up into one. It's a metaphor for...)

MC

mantis · 05-09-2002, 09:39 AM

Ghetto bi wiring/ biamping is just funny,no racist remarks intended(I hope from other people).
It's a funny way to say.........your cutting corner's.Thats fine.....I just laugh when I read it.
I feel using a receiver as a pre amp is a waste of internal amp's not needed.Why not just buy a pre amp.Some people want to do it there way or the cheap way or whatever there reason for doing it that way.Its all good(if thats what your into).
Maybe they just want to use the receiver as a pre amp untill they can afford a pr amp?/?who know's.
If people are getting offended, they should say something, and we can back off.

hoosier21 · 05-09-2002, 10:22 AM

Mantis

Yes using a receiver for a pre/pro is a waste of the internal amps, and yes many do go the upgrade path of Receiver - Receiver (pre/pro)+Power amp, then to the Pre/Pro + Amp.

Can somebody tell me why I can buy a Denon 3802, with 7 channels of built in amps PLUS all the processing and switching for less than a grand, BUT I can't buy a separate Pre/Pro with no amps, for less than a grand??

BTW many different colors of people live in the ghetto, so what ever your color is don't get to freaking offended by "ghetto bi-wiring" they are not singling out your over sensitive ass!

danger boy · 05-09-2002, 12:22 PM

You guys just don't get it do you? I'm sure most of the guys who post on a daily basis on here are upper middle class white men who make between $30 and 60k a year. I come from a farmer worker family. Working in dirt-poor conditions, yes and living in a ghetto of sorts. But I’ve grown up, went to school and no longer am a poor Mexican farm worker.
The term ghetto has many negative connotations to it.. It offends me that you guys can use it so easily.. You have no idea what I went through growing up being spit on and called names every day at school, just because of where I lived. Yeah in the ghetto.
I can't deny my past... but I hate to be reminded of it every time I read the posts in Club Polk. I come here to learn and have some fun. And yeah maybe even a laugh or two. That’s all.
But I don't think I’ll be coming here any more. With the insensitive people who continue to use that term "Ghetto bi-amping", and "Ghetto bi-wiring". Come on there must be some other term that describes bi wiring, and bi amping. So yeah I know I’m to being too sensitive... but if I don’t' speak up. Who knows what other race or minority you'll offend next. I've already heard the fag jokes on here several times. Come on guys. We’re all here to have fun. But please don't make it a racial thing. Or derogatory remarks.
Can’t we all just get along?

TroyD · 05-09-2002, 12:36 PM

As far as my background well, my family was FAR from prosperous so I think that one needs to be careful about making generalizations the other way as well...I know all about being the poor kid at school though. I've always said, because I HAVE been there, it's no sin to be poor. It's just damned inconvenient.

OK, if it offends you honestly, I won't use the term, HOWEVER, please understand that I don't think anyone used it in a deragatory fashion and I think that "ghetto" is a pretty generic term. If we were using "barrio-biamping" I could agree more but I don't think that it was meant that way. But if it bothers you, by all means, speak up. At least that's my opinion.

I would hope though that you would continue to hang out and continue to contribute though, it would be a shame if you didn't.

BDT

RuSsMaN · 05-09-2002, 12:42 PM

Ok, I hear ya, but it has been explained that this term is not used in a way that has a 'racial' meaning. I grew up in a hole too, but I've been cultured since....

What do you suggest we call it? Give me a better term, maybe I'll use it...

If you decide to leave, thats your beef. I hope you don't, especially over something as trivial as a commonly used word....

Cheers,
Russ

Ps, sorry, I can't help myself, but 'Barrio bi-amping', Troy, that was FUNNY man.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

TroyD · 05-09-2002, 01:21 PM

I can see why guys go using the receiver as a preamp though....To me it makes PERFECT sense. It affords a great deal of flexibility and options for upgrade at a price that most can deal with.

Most folks get into this by way of HT so they buy a receiver. They get into it more and decide separates is the way to go so they upgrade a piece at a time. Makes more sense to buy an amp first because without the amp, that pre/pro ain't doing you a damn bit of good not to mention they are pretty damn pricey and rare......

I would further argue that adding amps to a receiver in and of itself is not a waste of time .....I think that is an idea that certainly has merit in many cases.

Troy

Aaron · 05-09-2002, 01:42 PM

Quote:

I would further argue that adding amps to a receiver in and of itself is not a waste of time .....I think that is an idea that certainly has merit in many cases.

Especially if you're looking to augment your HT for 2-channel operation.

Aaron

mantis · 05-09-2002, 10:17 PM

I hope no body leaves due to the use of words meaning in joking terms.
This however offend's other people, I will try not to offend anyone.
But back to the pre amp/receiver thing........the receiver as a pre amp is in this case a good stepping stone in the wonderful world of upgrading.

05-03-2002, 11:21 PM	#1
bugner Polkster Member Sales Rating: (2) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: orange, california Posts: 56	finally biwired always contemplated it, but being basically lazy, never got around to biwiring my RT 800's until tonight. One reason was that I never realized, until reading up on the subject, that spring-clip receivers like my Onkyo could still accommodate biwiring by using both the A and B outputs. So I did it. Thick Monsters for the low frequencies, thinner Monsters for the upper. Also using the PSW 450. I wasn't expecting anything dramatic, but, when putting on Van Morrison's "Bright Side of the Road," I indeed noticed a sonic improvement. Audibly improved mids and highs, a more "visual" soundstage, I guess you could say. Pretty cool. One question though....I had bookmarked, but subsequently lost, a site that I think said there should be no concern about impedance, that I shouldn't need to reset the slider on the back of the receiver, as I am in actuality only driving ONE pair of speakers, right?

05-04-2002, 06:36 PM	#3
bugner Polkster Member Sales Rating: (2) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: orange, california Posts: 56	thanks thanks. I just wanna be sure. The switch on the Onkyo, incidentally, is for either A OR B at 8 ohms or A PLUS B at 8 ohms. It's set at the A OR B setting now and seems to be OK, altho I have not really cranked it. yet.

05-05-2002, 10:53 AM	#6
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	To bi wire. The end into the amp.Twist both negitive wires together,as well as the 2 positive.Make them into a point counter clockwise if Monstercable,clock wise for most other wire brands.If you buy the larger gauge wire end's like Banana's crimp on you will not have any problem screwing the wire into the hole and crimping on the end.You can solder if you want,use twist-ons.I would before you terminate the end slip some heat shrink tubing over the wire first then terminate,slip heatshrink tubing back down the wire and install it right before the inserting tip.Keep you heat gun far enough away so you don't melt it, just shrink it. You can get tricky with all kinds of pretty colors. __________________ Dan My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

05-08-2002, 02:23 PM	#7
cgravil Polkster Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ankmorpork Posts: 101	it's not ghetto.... It's AFRO-ENGINEERING!!! __________________ The probibility of someone watching you is directly related to the stupidity of the action in question.

05-08-2002, 03:45 PM	#8
dylan Polkateer Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mountains of Idaho Posts: 453	Very subjective subject... You might also try... replacing the jumpers with speaker wire. I did this based on suggestions on the forum, and after trying every wiring possibility I know of so far (bi-wiring included) on my 800i's, just one wire with jumpers replaced was my favorite. Just food for thought... it's probably best to try them all.

05-04-2002, 03:45 AM	#2
GuitarheadCA Polkateer Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Davis, CA Posts: 400	About impedence: I just finished a physics course, so I'm going to go off of what I know from the books for a second. The bridges connect the tweeter and mid's in a parrallel circuit. When the total impedence is 8 ohms, without the bridge each post is 16 ohms. The bridge cuts the impedence in half. Thus when each tweeter and pair of mids has it's own connection, your Onkyo is actually pushing a harder load for each, which shouldn't be a problem. Problems occur when you push too few ohms (less than 6) not too many. So you should be fine, but I'm only about 90% positive on what I just said. So someone correct me if I'm wrong. GuitarheadCA

05-04-2002, 07:58 PM	#4
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,018	Another case of ghetto bi-amping. To bi-wire, you will run the 2 sets of wire (or 1 specially made bi-wire cable) to ONE set of posts, not two. But hey, if you like the sound, more power to ya.... Cheers, Russ

05-05-2002, 01:47 AM	#5
GuitarheadCA Polkateer Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Davis, CA Posts: 400	Hey Russman (or anyone else)- I was thinking about bi-wiring and wondering what's the best way to connect two set's of wire to one post? I like using bannana terminals, but I don't think i could fit two wires into the back of one bannana plug. Should I just bare wire one, and bannana plug the other? I do have 5-way binding posts on all terminals. I dont' want to pay for the overpriced monster biwire cable that comes with it already done. GuitarheadCA

05-08-2002, 06:21 PM	#9
cgravil Polkster Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ankmorpork Posts: 101	annother thought ... I'm a bass player. When I "Bi-Amp" my cabs i actually use 3 separate amplifiers. One for Highs 3x8 One for Mids 4x10's and one for my MONSTEROUS 4x15 cab.<would this be tri-amping???> If I run them using jumpers and one amp it sounds all mushy.... More to the point<Maybe...> to properly bi-amp shouldn't you use two (2) amps? just a curious question Clay Last edited by cgravil; 05-08-2002 at 07:56 PM..

05-09-2002, 09:27 AM	#12
Micah Cohen Ruler of the gnome universe Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Queen City Extension Posts: 1,943	Guys, mellow with the seemingly-racist stuff. If stuff can be misconstrued, count on it. Wiring is multi-racial, clearly. (All those colors, twisted up into one. It's a metaphor for...) MC __________________ ultramicah@yahoo.com "There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney

05-09-2002, 09:39 AM	#13
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	Ghetto bi wiring/ biamping is just funny,no racist remarks intended(I hope from other people). It's a funny way to say.........your cutting corner's.Thats fine.....I just laugh when I read it. I feel using a receiver as a pre amp is a waste of internal amp's not needed.Why not just buy a pre amp.Some people want to do it there way or the cheap way or whatever there reason for doing it that way.Its all good(if thats what your into). Maybe they just want to use the receiver as a pre amp untill they can afford a pr amp?/?who know's. If people are getting offended, they should say something, and we can back off.

05-09-2002, 10:22 AM	#14
hoosier21 Polk Expert Member Sales Rating: (17) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,914	Mantis Yes using a receiver for a pre/pro is a waste of the internal amps, and yes many do go the upgrade path of Receiver - Receiver (pre/pro)+Power amp, then to the Pre/Pro + Amp. Can somebody tell me why I can buy a Denon 3802, with 7 channels of built in amps PLUS all the processing and switching for less than a grand, BUT I can't buy a separate Pre/Pro with no amps, for less than a grand?? BTW many different colors of people live in the ghetto, so what ever your color is don't get to freaking offended by "ghetto bi-wiring" they are not singling out your over sensitive ass! __________________ Acurus RL11 - Preamp Aragon 8008ST - Power amp Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B - Vandersteen 2Ci (8) 12" driver DIY - Subwoofer Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp Outlaw ICBM - crossover Beringher BFD - sub eq Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote! "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

05-09-2002, 12:22 PM	#15
danger boy Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 14,082	You guys just don't get it do you? I'm sure most of the guys who post on a daily basis on here are upper middle class white men who make between $30 and 60k a year. I come from a farmer worker family. Working in dirt-poor conditions, yes and living in a ghetto of sorts. But I’ve grown up, went to school and no longer am a poor Mexican farm worker. The term ghetto has many negative connotations to it.. It offends me that you guys can use it so easily.. You have no idea what I went through growing up being spit on and called names every day at school, just because of where I lived. Yeah in the ghetto. I can't deny my past... but I hate to be reminded of it every time I read the posts in Club Polk. I come here to learn and have some fun. And yeah maybe even a laugh or two. That’s all. But I don't think I’ll be coming here any more. With the insensitive people who continue to use that term "Ghetto bi-amping", and "Ghetto bi-wiring". Come on there must be some other term that describes bi wiring, and bi amping. So yeah I know I’m to being too sensitive... but if I don’t' speak up. Who knows what other race or minority you'll offend next. I've already heard the fag jokes on here several times. Come on guys. We’re all here to have fun. But please don't make it a racial thing. Or derogatory remarks. Can’t we all just get along?

05-09-2002, 12:36 PM	#16
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	that's cool.... As far as my background well, my family was FAR from prosperous so I think that one needs to be careful about making generalizations the other way as well...I know all about being the poor kid at school though. I've always said, because I HAVE been there, it's no sin to be poor. It's just damned inconvenient. OK, if it offends you honestly, I won't use the term, HOWEVER, please understand that I don't think anyone used it in a deragatory fashion and I think that "ghetto" is a pretty generic term. If we were using "barrio-biamping" I could agree more but I don't think that it was meant that way. But if it bothers you, by all means, speak up. At least that's my opinion. I would hope though that you would continue to hang out and continue to contribute though, it would be a shame if you didn't. BDT __________________ That statement will probably offend someone. They need to know ahead of time that I don't give a sh*t. -G.B. Grand

05-09-2002, 12:42 PM	#17
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,018	Ok, I hear ya, but it has been explained that this term is not used in a way that has a 'racial' meaning. I grew up in a hole too, but I've been cultured since.... What do you suggest we call it? Give me a better term, maybe I'll use it... If you decide to leave, thats your beef. I hope you don't, especially over something as trivial as a commonly used word.... Cheers, Russ Ps, sorry, I can't help myself, but 'Barrio bi-amping', Troy, that was FUNNY man. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

05-09-2002, 01:21 PM	#18
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	back on track though...... I can see why guys go using the receiver as a preamp though....To me it makes PERFECT sense. It affords a great deal of flexibility and options for upgrade at a price that most can deal with. Most folks get into this by way of HT so they buy a receiver. They get into it more and decide separates is the way to go so they upgrade a piece at a time. Makes more sense to buy an amp first because without the amp, that pre/pro ain't doing you a damn bit of good not to mention they are pretty damn pricey and rare...... I would further argue that adding amps to a receiver in and of itself is not a waste of time .....I think that is an idea that certainly has merit in many cases. Troy

05-09-2002, 10:17 PM	#20
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	I hope no body leaves due to the use of words meaning in joking terms. This however offend's other people, I will try not to offend anyone. But back to the pre amp/receiver thing........the receiver as a pre amp is in this case a good stepping stone in the wonderful world of upgrading.

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