Amps

nascarmann · 05-14-2002, 12:22 PM

What makes one amp better than another?
Is it the power rating?
Is it the distortion rating?
What makes an amp sound "bright" (still not sure what that means)?
How can you decide what sounds the best?
Is it just an opinion or is there something you should listen for to make that decision?
Is the 2ohm rating more important than the 8ohm?
When do my ears here distortion? .5% or 5% or is it more or less that that?
Is a 5G amp 5X better that a 1G amp?
Are the amps built today as good as the ones built in the late 80's and early 90's?
Do amps sound better that receivers?

Can someone help me please!

TroyD · 05-14-2002, 01:15 PM

Oh man, here is another shit storm brewing....

Theoretically, if it's not malfunctioning, most solid state amps should sound similar....

Power is always a big bonus...sort of like a 4cyl vs. a big V8...both will carry you from A to B but the V8 will do it under less strain in most cases.

the THD ratings, I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about because most of them, are so miniscule as to be inaudible to a normal person. That is a paraphrase of Bob Carver.

The ohm rating is important because the lower the impedance rating, the harder the amp has to work to push the speaker.

The amp portion of a reciever for spacial and economical restraints are usually inferior to a power amp, whereas a good amp will drive some low ohm loads, most receivers can't take the stress for extended periods. Headroom is also an issue....ie. my carver m1.5t is rated at 351wpc but it has headroom (for short bursts) up to 600 wpc. A receiver generally doesn't have that capability....

I am certainly not the authority on this subject but hopefully this will get the ball rolling for you....

BDT

weavercr · 05-14-2002, 02:49 PM

IMO For solid state amps: Direct coupled pure class "A" amps are the best period.

Most tube amps operate in class A

nascarmann · 05-15-2002, 07:21 PM

TroyD
weavercr

Thanks for reply! Glad there is a couple people that will talk about amps?

Yah, Class A is great if you are not looking for big wpc or ready to spend some big bucks for it! Mine will run 30wpc Class A and you need to run the AC when you do?

TroyD · 05-15-2002, 10:47 PM

I don't know about the new ones, but check out the older Denon amps...they ran class A.

I'm hoping I can convince weavercr to bring his by for a demo on my mancave rig.

BDT

nascarmann · 05-15-2002, 10:51 PM

Quote:

I'm hoping I can convince weavercr to bring his by for a demo on my mancave rig.

weavercr, be very very careful down there!

:lol:

mantis · 05-15-2002, 11:11 PM

Shit storm comming,
I'm posting guys....look out!!!!

Amps are yes hard to deside on.Price,size,power,ohms,all important.
Ist thing ask yourself what am I doing with an amp???Powering my speakers.
By the way extremly hard question but a good one indeed.
The 4 cyl vs the 8 cyl Isn't a bad way to look at it first.Not at all.I gets things rolling.
There are so many good amps out there its hard to begin this post.
I assume your using current Polks ar such,I would start looking into Rotel,B&K,Carver,ETC...amps that won't blow your socks off with price,but will in performance.Classe is a fine amp builder and not in the stratisphere in price(are higher end stuff gets there all Day).
Finding the right class that your speakers are in is the best start I can offer.
Sound quality with your speakers connected is the desiding factor.
General terms, seperates have for years been able to distroy receivers in sound quality, but today the gap isn't as big.Untill you go crazy then its all over for ythe receiver.

BBUBBA · 05-16-2002, 08:15 AM

I've heard that THD is audable at 1% over the 20-20kHZ . And when looking at a amp one with a HHHHHUUUUUGGGGGEEEEE power supply will be able to produce better audio. Class AB or AB1 amp will give you class A audio at the running temp of a B amp , it also wont draw as much current because it is more efficent . But this will only ensure a long lasting amp. A hot amp does not mean the output transitors are over heating , it can also mean the heat sinks are disapating the heat, my B+K gets hot but I can tells the heat is coming from the heat sinks .P.S. thats what is suppose to happen. Yes it is some what of a compermise.
I would say headroom is the nummer 1 spec of a good sounding amp my RECEIVER has a respectable 1.4dB of head room. B+K all the way ! :lol:

RuSsMaN · 05-16-2002, 11:53 AM

1.4? Not horrible by any means, just doesn't seem that great.

I was thinking b&K would be in the 3db dynamic headroom range....Heck, a little 20wpc Nad rec I have is rated at 3.3db....(getting close to 65watts vs the 20 rated)

Cheers,
Russ

Don't forget damping factor either guys.....

hoosier21 · 05-16-2002, 02:33 PM

Don't forget the importance of meters and dancing lights.

I really wish the power meters or at a minimum a distortion led would make a come back, if you don't like them turn them off, but to be able to see that you are pushing 50 100 400 or whatever watts is comforting to me anyway.

TroyD · 05-16-2002, 06:30 PM

There is nothing cooler on God's green earth than VU meters....I LOVE VU meters.

BDT

RuSsMaN · 05-16-2002, 06:32 PM

I agree BDT, the analog v/u is right up there with 'cool' things....

Being a v/u master all my life, has really let me enjoy the v/u from the inside, looking out, while standing on my head....

Cheers
Russ

TroyD · 05-16-2002, 10:48 PM

I am one with the V/U, grasshopper

Kung VU

mantis · 05-17-2002, 12:52 AM

Can you say Mac?????One of my personall favorite amps in the world.

nascarmann · 05-17-2002, 12:58 PM

Mine are Yamaha and have the pretty little red jumping light thingies? Can turn them on or off? WOW!:lol:

TroyD · 05-17-2002, 01:02 PM

I bet you don't have the Ultra cool "Michael Knight" Limited Edition Yamaha A-30D integrated amp WITH a built in EQ......

Who is cool NOW??

David Hasselhoff

nascarmann · 05-17-2002, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Who is cool NOW??

You da man! :lol:

BBUBBA · 05-18-2002, 01:14 PM

Damping factor is very important . How ever if you are running powered subs or powered speakers Like the RT1000i's it doesn't mean much. If however you are running passive woofers it means everything. I still love passive bass manangement. And bi-amping or tri-amping . One Amp I love is a commerical brand has anyone heard of Crest Audio????? They are much more musical that Crown IMO. Very nice however,
As far as headroom I could see where a 20wpc amp would have enormeous headroom. Underrating is the easiest way to say that the amp has more headroom. A rating of 1.4dB is very good I feel considering 3dB would be twice as loud!!!!!!!!!!They could easily have rated the amp at 112wpc with 3dB of head room. Instead of 150wpc with 1.4dB of head room. Its all specs and your ears are the only thing to go by in a final listen test.

Mantis I do like MacIntosh Also, My girl friend has a 2 channel McIntosh 250wpc amp. huge needle gauge UV metters nice watching them swing. Also has some same era Klipsch folded bass horn speakers , I don't enjoy there sound however.

mantis · 05-18-2002, 09:11 PM

Klipsch has me bussiness on Macintosh amps.They need great speaker to shine.Theil,B&W,Vienna,Dynaudio,Totem,Revel,Martin Logan.....get the picture??
Don't start guys on the Polk thing.....this isn't Polks league.....not even close.

05-14-2002, 12:22 PM	#1
nascarmann Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,465	Amps What makes one amp better than another? Is it the power rating? Is it the distortion rating? What makes an amp sound "bright" (still not sure what that means)? How can you decide what sounds the best? Is it just an opinion or is there something you should listen for to make that decision? Is the 2ohm rating more important than the 8ohm? When do my ears here distortion? .5% or 5% or is it more or less that that? Is a 5G amp 5X better that a 1G amp? Are the amps built today as good as the ones built in the late 80's and early 90's? Do amps sound better that receivers? Can someone help me please! __________________ Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!

05-14-2002, 01:15 PM	#2
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	Oh man, here is another shit storm brewing.... Theoretically, if it's not malfunctioning, most solid state amps should sound similar.... Power is always a big bonus...sort of like a 4cyl vs. a big V8...both will carry you from A to B but the V8 will do it under less strain in most cases. the THD ratings, I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about because most of them, are so miniscule as to be inaudible to a normal person. That is a paraphrase of Bob Carver. The ohm rating is important because the lower the impedance rating, the harder the amp has to work to push the speaker. The amp portion of a reciever for spacial and economical restraints are usually inferior to a power amp, whereas a good amp will drive some low ohm loads, most receivers can't take the stress for extended periods. Headroom is also an issue....ie. my carver m1.5t is rated at 351wpc but it has headroom (for short bursts) up to 600 wpc. A receiver generally doesn't have that capability.... I am certainly not the authority on this subject but hopefully this will get the ball rolling for you.... BDT __________________ That statement will probably offend someone. They need to know ahead of time that I don't give a sht. -G.B. Grand Last edited by TroyD; 05-14-2002 at 01:27 PM..*

05-15-2002, 11:11 PM	#7
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	Shit storm comming, I'm posting guys....look out!!!! Amps are yes hard to deside on.Price,size,power,ohms,all important. Ist thing ask yourself what am I doing with an amp???Powering my speakers. By the way extremly hard question but a good one indeed. The 4 cyl vs the 8 cyl Isn't a bad way to look at it first.Not at all.I gets things rolling. There are so many good amps out there its hard to begin this post. I assume your using current Polks ar such,I would start looking into Rotel,B&K,Carver,ETC...amps that won't blow your socks off with price,but will in performance.Classe is a fine amp builder and not in the stratisphere in price(are higher end stuff gets there all Day). Finding the right class that your speakers are in is the best start I can offer. Sound quality with your speakers connected is the desiding factor. General terms, seperates have for years been able to distroy receivers in sound quality, but today the gap isn't as big.Untill you go crazy then its all over for ythe receiver. __________________ Dan My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

05-16-2002, 08:15 AM	#8
BBUBBA Polkster Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 66	I've heard that THD is audable at 1% over the 20-20kHZ . And when looking at a amp one with a HHHHHUUUUUGGGGGEEEEE power supply will be able to produce better audio. Class AB or AB1 amp will give you class A audio at the running temp of a B amp , it also wont draw as much current because it is more efficent . But this will only ensure a long lasting amp. A hot amp does not mean the output transitors are over heating , it can also mean the heat sinks are disapating the heat, my B+K gets hot but I can tells the heat is coming from the heat sinks .P.S. thats what is suppose to happen. Yes it is some what of a compermise. I would say headroom is the nummer 1 spec of a good sounding amp my RECEIVER has a respectable 1.4dB of head room. B+K all the way ! :lol: Last edited by BBUBBA; 05-16-2002 at 08:18 AM..

05-16-2002, 02:33 PM	#10
hoosier21 Polk Expert Member Sales Rating: (17) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,914	Don't forget the importance of meters and dancing lights. I really wish the power meters or at a minimum a distortion led would make a come back, if you don't like them turn them off, but to be able to see that you are pushing 50 100 400 or whatever watts is comforting to me anyway. __________________ Acurus RL11 - Preamp Aragon 8008ST - Power amp Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B - Vandersteen 2Ci (8) 12" driver DIY - Subwoofer Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp Outlaw ICBM - crossover Beringher BFD - sub eq Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote! "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

05-14-2002, 02:49 PM	#3
weavercr Polkateer Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: South Carolina Posts: 289	IMO For solid state amps: Direct coupled pure class "A" amps are the best period. Most tube amps operate in class A

05-15-2002, 07:21 PM	#4
nascarmann Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,465	TroyD weavercr Thanks for reply! Glad there is a couple people that will talk about amps? Yah, Class A is great if you are not looking for big wpc or ready to spend some big bucks for it! Mine will run 30wpc Class A and you need to run the AC when you do?

05-15-2002, 10:47 PM	#5
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	I don't know about the new ones, but check out the older Denon amps...they ran class A. I'm hoping I can convince weavercr to bring his by for a demo on my mancave rig. BDT

05-16-2002, 11:53 AM	#9
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,018	1.4? Not horrible by any means, just doesn't seem that great. I was thinking b&K would be in the 3db dynamic headroom range....Heck, a little 20wpc Nad rec I have is rated at 3.3db....(getting close to 65watts vs the 20 rated) Cheers, Russ Don't forget damping factor either guys.....

05-16-2002, 06:30 PM	#11
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	There is nothing cooler on God's green earth than VU meters....I LOVE VU meters. BDT

05-16-2002, 06:32 PM	#12
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,018	I agree BDT, the analog v/u is right up there with 'cool' things.... Being a v/u master all my life, has really let me enjoy the v/u from the inside, looking out, while standing on my head.... Cheers Russ Last edited by RuSsMaN; 05-16-2002 at 06:37 PM..

05-16-2002, 10:48 PM	#13
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	I am one with the V/U, grasshopper Kung VU

05-17-2002, 12:52 AM	#14
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	Can you say Mac?????One of my personall favorite amps in the world.

05-17-2002, 12:58 PM	#15
nascarmann Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,465	Mine are Yamaha and have the pretty little red jumping light thingies? Can turn them on or off? WOW!:lol:

05-17-2002, 01:02 PM	#16
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	I bet you don't have the Ultra cool "Michael Knight" Limited Edition Yamaha A-30D integrated amp WITH a built in EQ...... Who is cool NOW?? David Hasselhoff

05-18-2002, 01:14 PM	#18
BBUBBA Polkster Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 66	Damping factor is very important . How ever if you are running powered subs or powered speakers Like the RT1000i's it doesn't mean much. If however you are running passive woofers it means everything. I still love passive bass manangement. And bi-amping or tri-amping . One Amp I love is a commerical brand has anyone heard of Crest Audio????? They are much more musical that Crown IMO. Very nice however, As far as headroom I could see where a 20wpc amp would have enormeous headroom. Underrating is the easiest way to say that the amp has more headroom. A rating of 1.4dB is very good I feel considering 3dB would be twice as loud!!!!!!!!!!They could easily have rated the amp at 112wpc with 3dB of head room. Instead of 150wpc with 1.4dB of head room. Its all specs and your ears are the only thing to go by in a final listen test. Mantis I do like MacIntosh Also, My girl friend has a 2 channel McIntosh 250wpc amp. huge needle gauge UV metters nice watching them swing. Also has some same era Klipsch folded bass horn speakers , I don't enjoy there sound however.

05-18-2002, 09:11 PM	#19
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	Klipsch has me bussiness on Macintosh amps.They need great speaker to shine.Theil,B&W,Vienna,Dynaudio,Totem,Revel,Martin Logan.....get the picture?? Don't start guys on the Polk thing.....this isn't Polks league.....not even close.

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