directionality

brittan_farmer · 08-08-2002, 01:15 PM

I am interested in signal cable and did a search of the forums to find information on it. I found Ron-P's post about being unhappy with it. I am wondering if directionality of the cable could have caused this. I read about it in cable theory on audioquest's website (I recommend this for answers on the science of wire).
Well, it said that every conductur will work better with the signal going through it one way rather than the opposite direction. If the cable is not marked, you have to try connecting it both ways to see which direction is correct.

Could it be that Ron-P had either the signal cable or the Monster cable connected in the wrong direction? I was just wondering if this could explain the poor performance in his system of a cable that others have found to work very well.

HBombToo · 08-08-2002, 01:32 PM

Directionality??? I don't think I can buy into this 1...

I'm not giving you a hard time, please don't take it that way brittan_farmer.

Just sounds crazy to me... thats all.

HBombtoo

RuSsMaN · 08-08-2002, 02:01 PM

Frank never mentioned anything about it, and he seems to be a pretty cerebral dude on the topic.

Perhaps it just goes to show that all cables don't match with all gear, or everyone's ears for that matter.....

Butter my butt and call me biscuit though, I love my Signal Cables.... that doesn't mean they are for everyone...

Cheers,
Russ

Ron-P · 08-08-2002, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Butter my butt and call me biscuit

Man, that is one visual I did not need.

Frank never told me which direction to install the interconnects neither did they come with arrows. Besides, as many times as I swapped out cables I'm sure they all did not go back in the same direction everytime.

Peace Out~

danger boy · 08-08-2002, 03:49 PM

brittan_farmer is correct. SOME cables do have a certain direction that they should be installed. My subwoof cable has arrows pointing in the direction it should be installed. For curiousity sake I installed it in the opposite direction. although i could not tell a difference.. it may not feed the signal correctly. I know someone on here wil refute my findings. but at least on the IXOS sub cable i use.. it has arrows on it. IF it's not needed. then why would the maker of the cables put arrows on them?

IXOS cables

RuSsMaN · 08-08-2002, 04:23 PM

Do what the manufacturer says, sure. Frank makes no mention of it for Signal Cables.

So you did not hear a difference? Interesting.

Cheers,
Russ

F1nut · 08-08-2002, 07:50 PM

I am currently using MIT's that are directional (excellent cables) and pulled out some old (not in use) Monster's that also are directional. I had some Audioquest's that were and some Vampire's that were not. I have never reversed direction as I trust the maker knows best....hopefully. Perhaps it boils down to how & what the cable is made of.

nascarmann · 08-08-2002, 08:33 PM

IMO.....It is a deception by the manufacture to make people think there is more technology in the cables. If you could only use it one way....well that mean some kind of "special stuff" went into making this cable if it "flows" in one direction. I could be way off on this one though.....

Frank Z · 08-08-2002, 08:59 PM

Everyone knows that electrons do not obey traffic signals!

Maybe the directional cables need to be warmed up properly...in the oven at 350 Deg F. in order to allow for proper molecular alignment.... NAAHHH.

Hey maybe thats why cables are different colors...If your color blind your screwed!

F1nut · 08-08-2002, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nascarmann
I could be way off on this one though.....

Is that like in....Oh Sheeet, I'm lost....lol.
Talking about direction...have you found your way to those 2.3TL's yet?

brittan_farmer · 08-08-2002, 09:07 PM

The passage I referred to before is found on this page:
http://www.audioquest.com/theory/theory5.html

It says there that all cables are directional, whether they are marked or not. If they are not marked you must figure out which way is correct by trial and error. So the pervieved "technology" needed to make electricity flow better one way than the other wouldn't make any manufacturer superior since all cables are like this. Some manufacturers just mark the correct direction.

nascarmann · 08-08-2002, 09:10 PM

Yeah man....made the road trip yesterday (14hrs). Took all morning to unload, unpack, tote in the house and hook-up....Them babys are sorta heavy. They do rock though......

TheGrayGhost · 08-08-2002, 09:12 PM

Directional arrows placed on interconnections are there to indicate how the shielding is grounded. You should know if the shield is connected at one end of the cable with the negative conductors or if it is "floating". The grounded end should be connected at the source.

nascarmann · 08-08-2002, 09:16 PM

Quote:

The grounded end should be connected at the source.

So.....it is grounded to what...

F1nut · 08-08-2002, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nascarmann
Them babys are sorta heavy. They do rock though......

Yeah, they don't move around too easily....took two of us to get them in my house, but you're a big guy...bet you had one on each shoulder!!!

Let's hear more on what you think of them.

nascarmann · 08-08-2002, 09:25 PM

F1nut go here and reply.....

TheGrayGhost · 08-08-2002, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nascarmann

So.....it is grounded to what...

It's an RF shield grounded at one end of the cable only.

nascarmann · 08-08-2002, 10:40 PM

I am far from an expert and have lots to learn......why will it ground at the source or better at the source than lets say the amp? I really don't understand why this "ground" should be an issue. I don't see how a cable would have a "flow" direction. I"m just dumb I guess.....

north51 · 08-08-2002, 11:07 PM

My understanding is that the directional ground helps if there is any interference(EMI, RFI) picked up along the cable length. It is plugged into the source so that this interference won't pass along to the next component.

nascarmann · 08-08-2002, 11:23 PM

Sorry.....still don't understand. A ground is a ground? What difference if it is at the source, pre-amp or amp? If it's grounded......it's grounded

TheGrayGhost · 08-09-2002, 01:16 AM

Floating Ground (electrical) A grounding technique in which circuit grounds (return paths) are isolated from earth ground. Many amps use floating grounds at the input circuits.

Connecting the amps floating ground to an earth ground can introduce noise on the input circiut.

HBombToo · 08-09-2002, 10:36 AM

This kind of sounds like an incomplete carry over from telecom.

In our systems we typically have 2 separate grounding schemes, 1 for signal ground and 1 for power ground. The reason in short for this is, power systems are isolated from signal(Equipment) so no intruduction of 60Hz on the signal side. Keep in mind that there are 2 separate paths to ground for each but never, never, never do we float or terminate only 1 side because by doing so you have created an Antenna dipole.

Float nothing period.

In most homes I dont thing it would be an easy task to create a signal ground that would be inexpensive but I do know my friend here at work may have some comments when he gets back from vacation.

Just my take.
HBomb

Aaron · 08-09-2002, 04:04 PM

With the MIT cables (and probably Transparent), the network bricks are placed at the source end. Honestly I have no idea what they really do, but I can see this making a bigger difference than in the case of a typical Monster Cable.

Aaron

08-08-2002, 01:15 PM	#1
brittan_farmer Polkie Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 12	directionality I am interested in signal cable and did a search of the forums to find information on it. I found Ron-P's post about being unhappy with it. I am wondering if directionality of the cable could have caused this. I read about it in cable theory on audioquest's website (I recommend this for answers on the science of wire). Well, it said that every conductur will work better with the signal going through it one way rather than the opposite direction. If the cable is not marked, you have to try connecting it both ways to see which direction is correct. Could it be that Ron-P had either the signal cable or the Monster cable connected in the wrong direction? I was just wondering if this could explain the poor performance in his system of a cable that others have found to work very well.

08-08-2002, 01:32 PM	#2
HBombToo Polk Master Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funny Farm"no doubt there" Posts: 5,321	Directionality??? I don't think I can buy into this 1... I'm not giving you a hard time, please don't take it that way brittan_farmer. Just sounds crazy to me... thats all. HBombtoo __________________ *WAREMTAE*

08-08-2002, 02:01 PM	#3
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,018	Frank never mentioned anything about it, and he seems to be a pretty cerebral dude on the topic. Perhaps it just goes to show that all cables don't match with all gear, or everyone's ears for that matter..... Butter my butt and call me biscuit though, I love my Signal Cables.... that doesn't mean they are for everyone... Cheers, Russ __________________ If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough - when you get knocked down, you gotta get back up - Roger Alan Wade

08-08-2002, 03:49 PM	#5
danger boy Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 14,082	brittan_farmer is correct. SOME cables do have a certain direction that they should be installed. My subwoof cable has arrows pointing in the direction it should be installed. For curiousity sake I installed it in the opposite direction. although i could not tell a difference.. it may not feed the signal correctly. I know someone on here wil refute my findings. but at least on the IXOS sub cable i use.. it has arrows on it. IF it's not needed. then why would the maker of the cables put arrows on them? IXOS cables __________________ I need a new sig... "Ask not what can your stereo system can do for you, ask what you can do for your stereo" - little ol me Last edited by danger boy; 08-08-2002 at 03:56 PM..

08-08-2002, 07:50 PM	#7
F1nut Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Mars Hotel Posts: 19,102	I am currently using MIT's that are directional (excellent cables) and pulled out some old (not in use) Monster's that also are directional. I had some Audioquest's that were and some Vampire's that were not. I have never reversed direction as I trust the maker knows best....hopefully. Perhaps it boils down to how & what the cable is made of. __________________ 'Political Correctness'.........defined "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." President of Club Polk

08-08-2002, 04:23 PM	#6
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,018	Do what the manufacturer says, sure. Frank makes no mention of it for Signal Cables. So you did not hear a difference? Interesting. Cheers, Russ

08-08-2002, 08:33 PM	#8
nascarmann Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,465	IMO.....It is a deception by the manufacture to make people think there is more technology in the cables. If you could only use it one way....well that mean some kind of "special stuff" went into making this cable if it "flows" in one direction. I could be way off on this one though..... __________________ Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!

08-08-2002, 08:59 PM	#9
Frank Z Polk-a-dweeb Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,963	Everyone knows that electrons do not obey traffic signals! Maybe the directional cables need to be warmed up properly...in the oven at 350 Deg F. in order to allow for proper molecular alignment.... NAAHHH. Hey maybe thats why cables are different colors...If your color blind your screwed! __________________ 9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click) 2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!!

08-08-2002, 09:07 PM	#11
brittan_farmer Polkie Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 12	The passage I referred to before is found on this page: http://www.audioquest.com/theory/theory5.html It says there that all cables are directional, whether they are marked or not. If they are not marked you must figure out which way is correct by trial and error. So the pervieved "technology" needed to make electricity flow better one way than the other wouldn't make any manufacturer superior since all cables are like this. Some manufacturers just mark the correct direction.

08-08-2002, 09:10 PM	#12
nascarmann Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,465	Yeah man....made the road trip yesterday (14hrs). Took all morning to unload, unpack, tote in the house and hook-up....Them babys are sorta heavy. They do rock though......

08-08-2002, 09:12 PM	#13
TheGrayGhost Polkster Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 196	Directional arrows placed on interconnections are there to indicate how the shielding is grounded. You should know if the shield is connected at one end of the cable with the negative conductors or if it is "floating". The grounded end should be connected at the source. __________________ Best Regards, Cliff

08-08-2002, 09:25 PM	#16
nascarmann Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,465	F1nut go here and reply.....

08-08-2002, 10:40 PM	#18
nascarmann Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,465	I am far from an expert and have lots to learn......why will it ground at the source or better at the source than lets say the amp? I really don't understand why this "ground" should be an issue. I don't see how a cable would have a "flow" direction. I"m just dumb I guess.....

08-08-2002, 11:07 PM	#19
north51 Polkster Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 66	My understanding is that the directional ground helps if there is any interference(EMI, RFI) picked up along the cable length. It is plugged into the source so that this interference won't pass along to the next component.

08-08-2002, 11:23 PM	#20
nascarmann Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,465	Sorry.....still don't understand. A ground is a ground? What difference if it is at the source, pre-amp or amp? If it's grounded......it's grounded

08-09-2002, 01:16 AM	#21
TheGrayGhost Polkster Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 196	Floating Ground (electrical) A grounding technique in which circuit grounds (return paths) are isolated from earth ground. Many amps use floating grounds at the input circuits. Connecting the amps floating ground to an earth ground can introduce noise on the input circiut.

08-09-2002, 10:36 AM	#22
HBombToo Polk Master Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funny Farm"no doubt there" Posts: 5,321	This kind of sounds like an incomplete carry over from telecom. In our systems we typically have 2 separate grounding schemes, 1 for signal ground and 1 for power ground. The reason in short for this is, power systems are isolated from signal(Equipment) so no intruduction of 60Hz on the signal side. Keep in mind that there are 2 separate paths to ground for each but never, never, never do we float or terminate only 1 side because by doing so you have created an Antenna dipole. Float nothing period. In most homes I dont thing it would be an easy task to create a signal ground that would be inexpensive but I do know my friend here at work may have some comments when he gets back from vacation. Just my take. HBomb

08-09-2002, 04:04 PM	#23
Aaron Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 1,847	MIT With the MIT cables (and probably Transparent), the network bricks are placed at the source end. Honestly I have no idea what they really do, but I can see this making a bigger difference than in the case of a typical Monster Cable. Aaron

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