Good Starter Wire?

gacole2000 · 01-29-2003, 07:47 PM

Can anybody suggest some decent wire that is not too expensive. I just upgraded to 6.1 (Yamaha 5590) and don't have a lot of money for good wire. In short, what is the best bang for the buck. Thanks - Greg

RuSsMaN · 01-29-2003, 07:55 PM

16/2 lamp cord. Not Home Depot/Lowes 'speaker wire', actual lamp cord. I prefer the black casing. $.16/ft or so. I dare you to hear a difference between it and Monster XP.

If thats too cheap, we can kick it up a notch, say the word.

Cheers,
Rooster

gacole2000 · 01-29-2003, 07:58 PM

We could go up a notch. Thanks for your help!

Greg

RuSsMaN · 01-29-2003, 08:06 PM

What do you have for speakers/amps, and how long are your wire runs? Let's start there.

Cheers,
Rooster

gacole2000 · 01-29-2003, 08:16 PM

Yamaha HTR-5590 Receiver (110x6)
Boston A-100 main 12-15 ft
BA A-70 surrounds 30-40 ft
Polk CS400i main center 6 ft
Polk CS175i rear center 35 ft
Polk PSW350 sub 10 ft

Thanks again- Greg

mantis · 01-29-2003, 08:17 PM

what does too expensive mean?

RuSsMaN · 01-29-2003, 08:22 PM

Are you looking for pre-terminated wire, or will you go bare-wire or terminate yourself?

And as Tweeter Dee said, what's too expensive? What's your budget, ballpark at least?

Cheers,
Rooster

Ps: Boston A100's, what a GREAT speaker.

gacole2000 · 01-29-2003, 08:26 PM

Obviously a subjective term. In essence, I was hoping there might be a wire out there that is , all things considered, a good bang for the buck. Of course, I want to hook up my new receiver and take it for a test drive. However, as money is tight right now, I had hoped to send .50 a foot or so. Thanks for your help!

Greg

gacole2000 · 01-29-2003, 08:32 PM

bare, most likely. I have had these A-100 since new stored since 92 in their original boxes- mint. They have been put back into service after a robbery took my beloved Def. Tech. BP10's and Yamaha system.

Further, that should be spend, not send.

Greg

gacole2000 · 01-29-2003, 08:40 PM

Time for dinner, I'll check back later.

Thanks again- Greg

STUFFMD · 01-29-2003, 09:13 PM

Hey Gacole2000,
Seeing how the guys are sending more questions than help, I'll put in my 2 cents....Monster XP is in my opinion a good starter wire...They sell it in 50-100ft rolls at Best Buys, about $50 for the 50 ft. roll...I am currently using it on my Polks all around and I found a substantial difference in Hf and Lf and have recommended it to several friends who have had very good experiences with the product. Would highly recommend...
Good Luck StuffMD

RuSsMaN · 01-29-2003, 09:29 PM

Stuff, not knocking your opinion, but have you tried 16/2 lamp against XP? It's good wire (xp), I recently used it on one of my friends installs (Yamaha rec/Modurant Short speaks).

There is no difference, as far as my ears can tell, with standard lamp cord.

You won't go wrong with Monster XP, but I suggest you buy 20ft (or whatever would reach your mains) of each, monster and lamp cord , and compare them side by side (2ch music only).

Another couple to throw in the mix:

First is IXOS, check out AC4L.com, the gamma 15awg is on sale for $.49 a foot. Killer wire, worth a listen.

Additionally, check out Audioadvisor.com for AR Pro series and Tributaries bulk wire - $.35-$.49 /ft. Partsexpress.com has Carol Command at reasonable prices also.

Unless you want to jump to $1.50-$2.00/ft, where you can tap into Audioquest etc, I really suggest entry IXOS or standard lamp, or a combination of both.

Cheers,
Rooster

gacole2000 · 01-29-2003, 09:57 PM

Further, should I use the same wire for all speakers (main vs. surrounds)? Also, 14 or 16 gage?

I say this on e-bay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3003137053

Thoughts?

Greg

Mike Reeter · 01-29-2003, 10:02 PM

Rooster,I recently checked with our local Electrical Supplier about lampcord,all they had in stock, or could order in was 18/2. They could come up with a 14/2-16/2 all cooper,teflon shielded wire that was simply called "Sound&Security". I can pick this up for 11c-14c per ft....I also have some long runs to my rear center,45' and 35' for my left&right surrounds.What do you think? Regardless of which wire I end up with,what awg would be the best for the long runs? I have a Kenwood VR-6070 with FXi30's and a CS245i for the rear ctr.

RuSsMaN · 01-29-2003, 10:12 PM

Lots of wire opinions, this is mine, take it at face value. 16/2 is the highest (smallest) guage I would use, period. 16/2 should be more than fine on runs up to 50ft (approx). More than that, I would go 14/2 all the way up to 100ft.

Not saying you can't run 12/2 on a 50ft run, but electrically speaking, it is not needed.

Cheers,
Rooster

*I'll be happy to mail you 'my' 16/2 lamp cord at cost, if need be.*

mantis · 01-29-2003, 10:37 PM

OK,
I'll add my opnion on what is good starter wire.......whatever thats really means.
By looking over your system,Monstercable XP is nice.They also sell Custom wire which would work well and not cost an arm and a leg.14 guage I would use all the way around.I feel wire is as important as anything else you buy in your system.Over the years I have tried alot of different kinds of wire including Home Depot and Lamp cord.Those types of wires I would never use on any system.Monster XP is my bottom of the line thinking.Another company that sounds pretty good for dollar value is Liberty.They make nice wire for cheap.I'd look around and try out some wire before you run out and spend anything.The entire world of wire is waiting.Monster is a fail safe product.I believe in them.

gacole2000 · 01-29-2003, 10:42 PM

Thank you-

I am leaning towards that IXOS on sale www.ac4l.com for .49. Also, there is a lot on Monster on e-bay. Any experience with the IXOS?

:-) Greg

dbournival · 01-30-2003, 04:04 PM

My system 1 uses Monster in wall 14/2 and 14/4, my system 2 used Carol (from HD) 12-2 inwall (grey jacket) except for the Center that is Bi-wired with 14-2/16-2 HD Clear jacket. I really can't say if the Monster is any better, I did not buy it twice...

goingganzo · 01-31-2003, 01:51 AM

i would recomend ar cabbles they have good cabbles at a good price. also they have ends that uses compreshon fittings. work great and you winn not pull them off like the twist on ones.

pjdami · 02-26-2003, 01:06 AM

I use Monster XP 14 gauge. Highly recommend it! Don't go with the 16 gauge though.

Dr. Spec · 02-26-2003, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
16/2 lamp cord. Not Home Depot/Lowes 'speaker wire', actual lamp cord. I prefer the black casing. $.16/ft or so. I dare you to hear a difference between it and Monster XP.

If thats too cheap, we can kick it up a notch, say the word.

Cheers,
Rooster

Russ - is the 14 or 12 gauge Home Depot / Lowes wire (Woody brand, I think) actually bad in your experience, or is it simply not any better than 16/2 lamp cord?

I think 16 gauge is a little light for any full range application. I'd go 14 at a minimum.

I have cut the Woody stuff open and it is fully encased on both leads with no oxidation (visible at least). The copper appears to be decent grade, with no discoloration or visible impurities. And it's fully marked for polarity all the way.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn · 02-26-2003, 08:47 AM

I use HD - Im not no audio expert, but Its audible in all sense of sound.

Zero · 02-26-2003, 12:38 PM

IXOS Gamma all the friggen way!!!!!!!

Conducted an A vs B comparison against MUCH more expensive wire (MIT terminator 4's) and some Monzter Z2 bi-wire..... the differences were incredibly, incredibly subtle..

polkatese · 02-26-2003, 12:45 PM

Sean,
those extra inch of details in upgrading speaker cables make a compelling argument to stick with what you have, right?? For me, I stop at Frank's cables, unless I am ready to upgrade my speakers to Sonus Faber or something along those line, and Krell, and separate DAC transports and.....you get the picture

RuSsMaN · 02-26-2003, 01:15 PM

Doc, I have not had bad experiences with HD/Lowes wire, but standard lamp comes in a bit cheaper, has a more flexible casing.

As far as entry level cable, it can't be touched (imo). 16awg lamp cord may seem a little 'thin' to some folks, but it has been (for years) and is still what most speaker manufacturers recommend (some as a 'minimum', some not).

Cheers,
Russ

Zero · 02-26-2003, 01:50 PM

Polk,

Not to repeat the obvious - but its all about matching. That being said, I agree.... no need in going higher up in cables unless you got some very high grade components to match it all. I stop with IXOS.

misolic · 02-28-2003, 05:28 AM

Please. see the following link:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html

and let me know what you think about!
It looks pretty good to me!

STUFFMD · 02-28-2003, 01:16 PM

Hey Misolic,
I've seen this done before, very similar to Kimber Cable, 3 things missing from the homemades as far as I can tell, A.) I'm no expert, I have never seen Hyperpure copper in Cat9...maybe it exists but I couldn't see a Cat9 cable co. using that high a grade of copper B.)Kimber uses varying thicknesses of wire in their braid, they call it Veristrand which in itself would be easy enough I would to do C.) Kimber has I think it's 7 wires in their 4tc, the manufacturer claims that the way they braid it, or counter braid it cuts down on electrical fields as well as other distortions as well as the Teflon coating on the Kimbers.....I would bet though that you would get a very good result with the homemades. At a substantial savings.
Stuff

gidrah · 03-01-2003, 03:02 AM

Welcome gentlemen!

I'm in the process of doing the TNT-TTT. I've got one side braided up awaiting stripping and termination; which is the headache part. I can't wait. Well obviously I can wait or I wouldn't be drinking a beer and checking out this thread. I'm using CAT5e. I don't know if It'd make a sonic difference over the 5, but I got it for X-mas. You can get 166.66(7)' out of a spool. I've never heard of anything newer than CAT6.

I'd probably settle for less on the rears. Less money and braiding.

IME: I've found lamp chord to be stiffer and more brittle than "speaker" wire of the same size, but it sounds better to me.

IMO: I think that if Mike or anybody can get Teflon 14# @ .14$/ft, he should buy as much as possible. I'm all about the dielectric. The better insulation you have between +&- the better. Sure OFC is a great standard, but if your sheeting is plastic/PVC you're more likely to lose signal. Even at double the price you could run one length (both sides) to your + and one to your -. Twist them together with a drill, tape at the ends and BAM!

01-29-2003, 07:47 PM	#1
gacole2000 Polkster Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 243	Good Starter Wire? Can anybody suggest some decent wire that is not too expensive. I just upgraded to 6.1 (Yamaha 5590) and don't have a lot of money for good wire. In short, what is the best bang for the buck. Thanks - Greg

01-29-2003, 07:55 PM	#2
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,026	16/2 lamp cord. Not Home Depot/Lowes 'speaker wire', actual lamp cord. I prefer the black casing. $.16/ft or so. I dare you to hear a difference between it and Monster XP. If thats too cheap, we can kick it up a notch, say the word. Cheers, Rooster __________________ If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough - when you get knocked down, you gotta get back up - Roger Alan Wade

01-29-2003, 07:58 PM	#3
gacole2000 Polkster Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 243	We could go up a notch. Thanks for your help! Greg __________________ AVR: Yamaha RX-V661 DVD: Yamaha DV-C6480 BR: Samsung 1600 Mains: Polk RT55 (bi-amped) Center: CS300 Sides: FX1000 Rears: RT/FX Subs: SVS 20-39 PC+ 12.3 & DIY SVS 12.2 Projector: Optoma HD70 w/ 106" Elite Screen Power: Panamax MAX 5100 Remote: Harmony One

01-29-2003, 08:17 PM	#6
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	what does too expensive mean? __________________ Dan My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

01-29-2003, 09:13 PM	#11
STUFFMD Polkateer Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 381	Hey Gacole2000, Seeing how the guys are sending more questions than help, I'll put in my 2 cents....Monster XP is in my opinion a good starter wire...They sell it in 50-100ft rolls at Best Buys, about $50 for the 50 ft. roll...I am currently using it on my Polks all around and I found a substantial difference in Hf and Lf and have recommended it to several friends who have had very good experiences with the product. Would highly recommend... Good Luck StuffMD __________________ Your system is only as good as your weakest component...! OnkyoTX-DS 797 NAD C270/ Mains Mains: LSI9's Center: Cs400i /Biwired Rear: Fx300i Rear Center:CS 245i Dvd: Onkyo DVS 555 Vision RCA 36" Premiere Series Bang & Olfsen RX Turntable Psw 350 Front/Psw 202 rear Kimber Cable 4TC Mains HF Monster Originals/Center Kimber Interconnects Monster XP Everywhere else PS2/Gamecube

01-29-2003, 08:06 PM	#4
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,026	What do you have for speakers/amps, and how long are your wire runs? Let's start there. Cheers, Rooster

01-29-2003, 08:16 PM	#5
gacole2000 Polkster Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 243	Yamaha HTR-5590 Receiver (110x6) Boston A-100 main 12-15 ft BA A-70 surrounds 30-40 ft Polk CS400i main center 6 ft Polk CS175i rear center 35 ft Polk PSW350 sub 10 ft Thanks again- Greg

01-29-2003, 08:22 PM	#7
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,026	Are you looking for pre-terminated wire, or will you go bare-wire or terminate yourself? And as Tweeter Dee said, what's too expensive? What's your budget, ballpark at least? Cheers, Rooster Ps: Boston A100's, what a GREAT speaker.

01-29-2003, 08:26 PM	#8
gacole2000 Polkster Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 243	Obviously a subjective term. In essence, I was hoping there might be a wire out there that is , all things considered, a good bang for the buck. Of course, I want to hook up my new receiver and take it for a test drive. However, as money is tight right now, I had hoped to send .50 a foot or so. Thanks for your help! Greg

01-29-2003, 08:32 PM	#9
gacole2000 Polkster Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 243	bare, most likely. I have had these A-100 since new stored since 92 in their original boxes- mint. They have been put back into service after a robbery took my beloved Def. Tech. BP10's and Yamaha system. Further, that should be spend, not send. Greg

01-29-2003, 08:40 PM	#10
gacole2000 Polkster Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 243	Time for dinner, I'll check back later. Thanks again- Greg

01-29-2003, 09:29 PM	#12
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,026	Stuff, not knocking your opinion, but have you tried 16/2 lamp against XP? It's good wire (xp), I recently used it on one of my friends installs (Yamaha rec/Modurant Short speaks). There is no difference, as far as my ears can tell, with standard lamp cord. You won't go wrong with Monster XP, but I suggest you buy 20ft (or whatever would reach your mains) of each, monster and lamp cord , and compare them side by side (2ch music only). Another couple to throw in the mix: First is IXOS, check out AC4L.com, the gamma 15awg is on sale for $.49 a foot. Killer wire, worth a listen. Additionally, check out Audioadvisor.com for AR Pro series and Tributaries bulk wire - $.35-$.49 /ft. Partsexpress.com has Carol Command at reasonable prices also. Unless you want to jump to $1.50-$2.00/ft, where you can tap into Audioquest etc, I really suggest entry IXOS or standard lamp, or a combination of both. Cheers, Rooster Last edited by RuSsMaN; 01-29-2003 at 09:32 PM..

01-29-2003, 09:57 PM	#13
gacole2000 Polkster Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 243	Further, should I use the same wire for all speakers (main vs. surrounds)? Also, 14 or 16 gage? I say this on e-bay? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3003137053 Thoughts? Greg

01-29-2003, 10:02 PM	#14
Mike Reeter Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (9) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MO Posts: 1,513	Rooster,I recently checked with our local Electrical Supplier about lampcord,all they had in stock, or could order in was 18/2. They could come up with a 14/2-16/2 all cooper,teflon shielded wire that was simply called "Sound&Security". I can pick this up for 11c-14c per ft....I also have some long runs to my rear center,45' and 35' for my left&right surrounds.What do you think? Regardless of which wire I end up with,what awg would be the best for the long runs? I have a Kenwood VR-6070 with FXi30's and a CS245i for the rear ctr. __________________ SDA CRS+4.1TL's Velodyne SPL-1000R Jolida JD-100A CDP Rogue Audio 66 Magnum Pre Tube Audio Design TAD-60 Amplifier Audioquest IC's/Bedrocks

01-29-2003, 10:12 PM	#15
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,026	Lots of wire opinions, this is mine, take it at face value. 16/2 is the highest (smallest) guage I would use, period. 16/2 should be more than fine on runs up to 50ft (approx). More than that, I would go 14/2 all the way up to 100ft. Not saying you can't run 12/2 on a 50ft run, but electrically speaking, it is not needed. Cheers, Rooster I'll be happy to mail you 'my' 16/2 lamp cord at cost, if need be.

01-29-2003, 10:37 PM	#16
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	OK, I'll add my opnion on what is good starter wire.......whatever thats really means. By looking over your system,Monstercable XP is nice.They also sell Custom wire which would work well and not cost an arm and a leg.14 guage I would use all the way around.I feel wire is as important as anything else you buy in your system.Over the years I have tried alot of different kinds of wire including Home Depot and Lamp cord.Those types of wires I would never use on any system.Monster XP is my bottom of the line thinking.Another company that sounds pretty good for dollar value is Liberty.They make nice wire for cheap.I'd look around and try out some wire before you run out and spend anything.The entire world of wire is waiting.Monster is a fail safe product.I believe in them.

01-29-2003, 10:42 PM	#17
gacole2000 Polkster Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 243	Thank you- I am leaning towards that IXOS on sale www.ac4l.com for .49. Also, there is a lot on Monster on e-bay. Any experience with the IXOS? :-) Greg

01-30-2003, 04:04 PM	#18
dbournival Polkster Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 131	My system 1 uses Monster in wall 14/2 and 14/4, my system 2 used Carol (from HD) 12-2 inwall (grey jacket) except for the Center that is Bi-wired with 14-2/16-2 HD Clear jacket. I really can't say if the Monster is any better, I did not buy it twice...

01-31-2003, 01:51 AM	#19
goingganzo Polkologist Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: seccond star to the right and strait on to morning Posts: 2,799	i would recomend ar cabbles they have good cabbles at a good price. also they have ends that uses compreshon fittings. work great and you winn not pull them off like the twist on ones. __________________ Gonzo's World BenQ 8700+ 115in screen PS3,X-Box 360 and Wii Sunfire Theater Grand III ADCOM GFA-7607 four avalanch 18 subs 26.12l of displacement Crown xti 4000

02-26-2003, 01:06 AM	#20
pjdami Polkhead Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: down da bayou Posts: 1,890	I use Monster XP 14 gauge. Highly recommend it! Don't go with the 16 gauge though.

02-26-2003, 08:47 AM	#22
MxStYlEpOlKmAn Polkologist Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vr3MxStyler2k3 Posts: 2,114	I use HD - Im not no audio expert, but Its audible in all sense of sound. __________________ Damn you all, damn you all to hell....... I promised myself No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!! Damn you all! - ATC

02-26-2003, 12:38 PM	#23
Zero Stronzo Member Sales Rating: (4) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 7,390	IXOS Gamma all the friggen way!!!!!!! Conducted an A vs B comparison against MUCH more expensive wire (MIT terminator 4's) and some Monzter Z2 bi-wire..... the differences were incredibly, incredibly subtle..

02-26-2003, 12:45 PM	#24
polkatese Polk Master Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Victoria Gardens, RC-Calif. Posts: 5,439	Sean, those extra inch of details in upgrading speaker cables make a compelling argument to stick with what you have, right?? For me, I stop at Frank's cables, unless I am ready to upgrade my speakers to Sonus Faber or something along those line, and Krell, and separate DAC transports and.....you get the picture __________________ Connoisseur of obsolete audio: Laser-Disc, DVD-Audio, HD-DVD, Dual-Disc

02-26-2003, 01:15 PM	#25
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,026	Doc, I have not had bad experiences with HD/Lowes wire, but standard lamp comes in a bit cheaper, has a more flexible casing. As far as entry level cable, it can't be touched (imo). 16awg lamp cord may seem a little 'thin' to some folks, but it has been (for years) and is still what most speaker manufacturers recommend (some as a 'minimum', some not). Cheers, Russ

02-26-2003, 01:50 PM	#26
Zero Stronzo Member Sales Rating: (4) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 7,390	Polk, Not to repeat the obvious - but its all about matching. That being said, I agree.... no need in going higher up in cables unless you got some very high grade components to match it all. I stop with IXOS.

02-28-2003, 05:28 AM	#27
misolic Polkie Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Soave-(Verona)-Italy Posts: 1	Please. see the following link: http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html and let me know what you think about! It looks pretty good to me!

02-28-2003, 01:16 PM	#28
STUFFMD Polkateer Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 381	Hey Misolic, I've seen this done before, very similar to Kimber Cable, 3 things missing from the homemades as far as I can tell, A.) I'm no expert, I have never seen Hyperpure copper in Cat9...maybe it exists but I couldn't see a Cat9 cable co. using that high a grade of copper B.)Kimber uses varying thicknesses of wire in their braid, they call it Veristrand which in itself would be easy enough I would to do C.) Kimber has I think it's 7 wires in their 4tc, the manufacturer claims that the way they braid it, or counter braid it cuts down on electrical fields as well as other distortions as well as the Teflon coating on the Kimbers.....I would bet though that you would get a very good result with the homemades. At a substantial savings. Stuff

03-01-2003, 03:02 AM	#29
gidrah Polkologist Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 'burb of Detroit Posts: 3,000	Welcome gentlemen! I'm in the process of doing the TNT-TTT. I've got one side braided up awaiting stripping and termination; which is the headache part. I can't wait. Well obviously I can wait or I wouldn't be drinking a beer and checking out this thread. I'm using CAT5e. I don't know if It'd make a sonic difference over the 5, but I got it for X-mas. You can get 166.66(7)' out of a spool. I've never heard of anything newer than CAT6. I'd probably settle for less on the rears. Less money and braiding. IME: I've found lamp chord to be stiffer and more brittle than "speaker" wire of the same size, but it sounds better to me. IMO: I think that if Mike or anybody can get Teflon 14# @ .14$/ft, he should buy as much as possible. I'm all about the dielectric. The better insulation you have between +&- the better. Sure OFC is a great standard, but if your sheeting is plastic/PVC you're more likely to lose signal. Even at double the price you could run one length (both sides) to your + and one to your -. Twist them together with a drill, tape at the ends and BAM! __________________ Make it Funky!

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