Starer wire?What do I buy?where do I look?

mantis · 01-29-2003, 10:54 PM

Ok,
I know wire can be one hell of a thing to get answers 2.It's like this mystery that not many people can agree on one way or another.
You got these types of people that believe that wire is wire,why should I spend all this money on it when it's just wire.
Then you have people that swear that wire is the be all end all of there system and without it, the system doesn't perform up to it's max performance.
I think that people in general need to try,like anything else.I would write a letter or email to different comapnies and see what they say about what wire/s are right for your system.
Monster has levels of wire like all other companies do.Some have level performance charts to help, some offer really good advice,some it sounds like .......JUST BUY OUR WIRE IT'S SO MUCH BETTER THEN ALL THE REST.
I can see why most if not all people have so much trouble just trying to wire up there system.

I have a cool little thing I believe that works well for I'll call it a level of performance ratio.
Take10 to 20% of the total cost of your system and thats about the amount you should invest in cables/wires.This isn't perfect, but It can give you an idea where you should be.
Well this is for starters...I hope it helps some.
You know what???I say buy Monster first.It's a great place to start.And it also is a great way to gauge all other wires.Monster has been around a long time and has been making great sounding wires/cables.I guage all other brands to them at all different levels.
To me Monster IS the standard of wire in the industry.You can't go wrong with any of there products.All made well.

Zero · 01-30-2003, 01:45 AM

I tend to lodge myself somewhere in the abstract middle when in reference to speaker wire's/cable's and interconnect's.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but I have interpreted this threads purpose is to provide others with advise along with sharing opinions of speaker wire and various budgeting methods.

As commonly repeated, the best way to determine where you stand with cables is to demo them for yourself. If such an opportunity does not exist, your best bet would be to then find a dealer online which allows a trial period with a money-back garauntee.

To me, wire is like every other component in audio. I try to find the best products which suits my own needs that falls within a certain budget.

I can attest to hearing the differences between mid-fi wire (Monster Z series, M series, MIT Terminators) and your low-fi wire (home depot/lowes, rat shack, monster xp, audioquest standard, lampcord). Though I find no difference between any of the low-fi wires listed above, I can securily vouch for the differences in your more expensive interconnects and speaker cables.

The real question then becomes, does the cost of the wire justify the gain in performance? Only your ears and wallet can answer that.

If someone feels it necessary to use Transparent cables all the way around on a complete on a JVC theater in a box, then who is to tell them they are wrong? If someone (who shall remain nameless *cough *) feels it necessary to use HD wire using Krell and Wilson Watt Puppies, then who is to tell them they are wrong (insanity aside).

On a personal note, I try to match my wires with my equipment.... that is just me however.

In closing, I believe higher-end cable/wire is worth at least looking into. It never hurts to simply listen, and quite possibly even experiment with.

TroyD · 01-30-2003, 04:53 AM

Christ, how many times are we going to beat this friggin' subject into the ground, eh?

I thought Transparent was the standard by which all should be judged?

Anyone really think that if you call or email a wire company that you aren't going to get the standard company propoganda?

Moreover, does that ratio apply if you buy used? Should you go with original MSRP or should we factor in inflation? What if you use Carver amps which we all know don't sound good ('sick' I think was the term applied).

BDT

mantis · 01-30-2003, 09:03 AM

TroyD,
I don't know if you realize but this topic keeps coming up.What would you like to talk about?

As far as Transparent goes,that wouldn't be real fair to almost all cables made.
Monstercable is a standard in my opnion,Transparent is high end.

Quote:

Anyone really think that if you call or email a wire company that you aren't going to get the standard company propoganda?

Have you given it a try and failed?If so please share your experience.

Quote:

Moreover, does that ratio apply if you buy used? Should you go with original MSRP or should we factor in inflation? What if you use Carver amps which we all know don't sound good ('sick' I think was the term applied).

Sure it can and using MSRP isn't a bad Idea.It's a starting point Troy, not a be all end all.I feel this works and could help the clueless.Hell I use it in my system from time to time.Balance in my opnion is key to a great sounding/performing system.If you don't agree with this,can you offer a way to wire different levels of systems?
Carver amps in some peoples opnions do suck the big one,isn't worth the parts it's made out of.Can't believe that someone would actually use them.I could go on and on with comments about Carver I have heard.But there are thosepeople who love there amps.All a matter of opnion,I believe we came to that along time ago.
So empty the sand out of your boot and chip in would yeah???

TroyD · 01-30-2003, 09:28 AM

Dan,

It keeps coming up because you keep bringing it up.

If you call Monster do you REALLY think the guy is going to tell you 'well, maybe you'd be better off with Audioquest?"

BDT

STUFFMD · 01-30-2003, 11:31 AM

Well Troy, I think me and one other guy brought it up to be fair to Mantis......I personally am now using Monster XP and found it to be a large improvement over the AR standard 14 gauge...The particular question I was looking for is that I am ready to invest in some cables for my mains on the HF....I personally have found that cables from different companys have different sound signatures.....I was looking for somthing that was a little on the brighter side ,,Mantis was kind enough to give me a response..
I also think it is a good time for Mantis to post this thread because of all the newer guys that were asking the questions...personally sometimes it's fun to watch you guys bitch at each other...but in a thread it's also good to get some good solid answers and opinions......
Thank you all for input.......StuffMD

TroyD · 01-30-2003, 12:23 PM

I know, I know....it just seems like we've been through this whole thing too many times.

I apologize, it's been a trying day...

BDT

RuSsMaN · 01-30-2003, 12:24 PM

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa, tryin' to back peddle from the Hall of Shame.

mantis · 01-30-2003, 12:38 PM

TroyD,
cable companies like Monster or any other wouldn't tell you to use the OTHER GUYS wire.They would however just might steer you in the right direction for the wires that would work good on your system.
You want in on this topic so add to it.How do you deside to buy the right cable for your system?

As Stuff pointed out,I started this thead so people can read my advice and discuss how they feel about it(wire that is).Your views on wire are accepted as well.I just wish you would add them instead of looking for a way to bash my post.

All things considered,all topics come up.How much is there really to talk about audio and video?Wire is one of those topic's that is like some big mystery.Alot of people,like you,have your guard up against high dollar wire.You have your reasons.Lets hear em.

Well ther is alot to be said about speaker cables,innerconnects.Some yield alot of performance and some little.Finding the right cable/wire for the job is whats hard.
Shaw we continue?

gidrah · 01-30-2003, 06:15 PM

Speaker wire:
If anybody knows of a speaker wire that can compete with braided Cat5E @ 6Ohm and a 5ft run please let me know. I would need this cable for about a month to allow proper burn-in and judging. I also need to be able to return this free of cost in the case I prefer the Cat5E. Also it must cost less than $50 for the pair. I'll go up to $200 for demo purposes though. I also prefer bare wire, or spades and bananas if need be.

Interconnects: If anybody knows of a set of ICs that are single strand solid silver, teflon wrapped and shielded in the range of $50/1m set. The ends need to be able to separate about 1ft. They also need to have the same "no cost demo" as the speaker wire. I'll go as high as $150 for demo purposes.

Both of the amounts I'm willing to spend; in the event the demo calls the new cable the winner, go beyond the 20% cost ratio for this particular system, but hey I'm willing to try new things.

Zero · 01-30-2003, 06:34 PM

I got some 15ft Monster Z2 bi-wire *spades and hooks*I will get rid of shortly... ?

polkatese · 01-30-2003, 06:41 PM

Sean,
how much are you asking? when?

STUFFMD · 01-30-2003, 07:35 PM

Hey Troy,
We feel ya man...stay safe in the sandbox.
Peace Stuff

Zero · 01-30-2003, 08:23 PM

Polkatese,

Any time, really...

I payed nearly $160 for the pair (180 if you include shipping). I cannot really afford to loose much money these days, but I could part with them for $130.00.

polkatese · 01-31-2003, 02:12 AM

Sean,
thanks for the info, I will let you know when I am ready to pull my next project (7.1) hopefully sooner rather than later....

Tour2ma · 01-31-2003, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mantis
Starer wire?What do I buy?where do I look?

Assuming you mean starter wire, AutoZone has pretty fair prices...

F1nut · 01-31-2003, 02:38 AM

PEP Boys too! :lol:

Tour2ma · 01-31-2003, 07:14 AM

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Zero · 01-31-2003, 07:45 AM

Polkatese,

Sounds good man. Good luck on the 7.1 system. Out of curiousity, what route are you headed (ie- source, speaker compliment, amps)... ?

Sean

polkatese · 01-31-2003, 11:39 AM

Sean,

most likely rotel rb-1070, LSi9, but haven't finalised any plan since I need a breather from upgrade fever.....

polkatese · 01-31-2003, 02:21 PM

Dan,
I think on one of the threads in the past you had mentioned that you tried several monster cable, including monster custom series (S14/S16, etc), and you concluded m2.4 is the best sounding. I am curious what did you notice the most when you go from say xp-->S14/S16-->Z1/Z2-->m1.4/m2.4-->Sigma?? thanks, fh

Zero · 01-31-2003, 03:34 PM

Sounds great. The LSi-9's wont disappoint you!

mantis · 01-31-2003, 10:31 PM

polkatese,
I have own alot of monstercable.I started my run with Monster xp 12-2.It performed well.Then I went to Mcx Bi wires and they sounded alot better.Bought M1.4s bi wires which I still own,and custom 16-2,16-4,14-2 and 14-4.

The xp wire compared to the mcx was amazing.I believe some of the benefits where also the bi wire but man they sounded less boomy and tighter on bass.Highs smoothed out some and mid range was more forward.I really liked those cables.Then I got the M1.4s bi wires.They blew away the mcx.I was suprised how much beter then sounded.Clarity and realism was improved.Bass got even tighter.These wires are really good.

The custom wires I built byself for demo reasons.The 14-4 I ran on my system for awhile.I went back to the M1.4s.
For rear channels I used the 14-2.

nellis8166 · 01-31-2003, 11:39 PM

I have the MCX bi-wire running to my mains and center and I am very impressed with the performance.

polkatese · 01-31-2003, 11:48 PM

Dan,
thanks for your comments. I am happy with the 14-4 but wondering in the back of my mind, how much better can I experience by moving to the Z or M series.....the other route that I am also considering is signalcable speaker cable. I have the analog two i/c and I am very impressed with the build quality and improvement to my system. I might try them out also...now waiting for the right moment to snag lsi9.....

Zero · 02-01-2003, 12:32 AM

If you decide to go LSi - The difference (especially if bi-wired) will be ...... well.... trust our word, try it out..... and see us later.

mantis · 02-03-2003, 08:12 AM

Tour2ma,
I didn't come up with the term starter wire.I didn't really know what that meant.Someone else came up with that in another thead.

Tour2ma · 02-03-2003, 07:26 PM

I'm being quiet now... 6 days 23 hours and 58 minutes to go... shhhhh...

01-29-2003, 10:54 PM	#1
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	Starer wire?What do I buy?where do I look? Ok, I know wire can be one hell of a thing to get answers 2.It's like this mystery that not many people can agree on one way or another. You got these types of people that believe that wire is wire,why should I spend all this money on it when it's just wire. Then you have people that swear that wire is the be all end all of there system and without it, the system doesn't perform up to it's max performance. I think that people in general need to try,like anything else.I would write a letter or email to different comapnies and see what they say about what wire/s are right for your system. Monster has levels of wire like all other companies do.Some have level performance charts to help, some offer really good advice,some it sounds like .......JUST BUY OUR WIRE IT'S SO MUCH BETTER THEN ALL THE REST. I can see why most if not all people have so much trouble just trying to wire up there system. I have a cool little thing I believe that works well for I'll call it a level of performance ratio. Take10 to 20% of the total cost of your system and thats about the amount you should invest in cables/wires.This isn't perfect, but It can give you an idea where you should be. Well this is for starters...I hope it helps some. You know what???I say buy Monster first.It's a great place to start.And it also is a great way to gauge all other wires.Monster has been around a long time and has been making great sounding wires/cables.I guage all other brands to them at all different levels. To me Monster IS the standard of wire in the industry.You can't go wrong with any of there products.All made well. __________________ Dan My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. Last edited by mantis; 01-29-2003 at 10:57 PM..

01-30-2003, 04:53 AM	#3
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	Christ, how many times are we going to beat this friggin' subject into the ground, eh? I thought Transparent was the standard by which all should be judged? Anyone really think that if you call or email a wire company that you aren't going to get the standard company propoganda? Moreover, does that ratio apply if you buy used? Should you go with original MSRP or should we factor in inflation? What if you use Carver amps which we all know don't sound good ('sick' I think was the term applied). BDT __________________ That statement will probably offend someone. They need to know ahead of time that I don't give a sht. -G.B. Grand Last edited by TroyD; 01-30-2003 at 06:39 AM..*

01-30-2003, 11:31 AM	#6
STUFFMD Polkateer Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 381	Well Troy, I think me and one other guy brought it up to be fair to Mantis......I personally am now using Monster XP and found it to be a large improvement over the AR standard 14 gauge...The particular question I was looking for is that I am ready to invest in some cables for my mains on the HF....I personally have found that cables from different companys have different sound signatures.....I was looking for somthing that was a little on the brighter side ,,Mantis was kind enough to give me a response.. I also think it is a good time for Mantis to post this thread because of all the newer guys that were asking the questions...personally sometimes it's fun to watch you guys bitch at each other...but in a thread it's also good to get some good solid answers and opinions...... Thank you all for input.......StuffMD __________________ Your system is only as good as your weakest component...! OnkyoTX-DS 797 NAD C270/ Mains Mains: LSI9's Center: Cs400i /Biwired Rear: Fx300i Rear Center:CS 245i Dvd: Onkyo DVS 555 Vision RCA 36" Premiere Series Bang & Olfsen RX Turntable Psw 350 Front/Psw 202 rear Kimber Cable 4TC Mains HF Monster Originals/Center Kimber Interconnects Monster XP Everywhere else PS2/Gamecube

01-30-2003, 12:24 PM	#8
RuSsMaN Hardcore Member Sales Rating: (27) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Texas Posts: 16,019	WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa, tryin' to back peddle from the Hall of Shame. __________________ If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough - when you get knocked down, you gotta get back up - Roger Alan Wade

01-30-2003, 06:15 PM	#10
gidrah Polkologist Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 'burb of Detroit Posts: 3,000	Speaker wire: If anybody knows of a speaker wire that can compete with braided Cat5E @ 6Ohm and a 5ft run please let me know. I would need this cable for about a month to allow proper burn-in and judging. I also need to be able to return this free of cost in the case I prefer the Cat5E. Also it must cost less than $50 for the pair. I'll go up to $200 for demo purposes though. I also prefer bare wire, or spades and bananas if need be. Interconnects: If anybody knows of a set of ICs that are single strand solid silver, teflon wrapped and shielded in the range of $50/1m set. The ends need to be able to separate about 1ft. They also need to have the same "no cost demo" as the speaker wire. I'll go as high as $150 for demo purposes. Both of the amounts I'm willing to spend; in the event the demo calls the new cable the winner, go beyond the 20% cost ratio for this particular system, but hey I'm willing to try new things. __________________ Make it Funky!

01-30-2003, 01:45 AM	#2
Zero Stronzo Member Sales Rating: (4) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 7,390	I tend to lodge myself somewhere in the abstract middle when in reference to speaker wire's/cable's and interconnect's. Correct me if I am mistaken, but I have interpreted this threads purpose is to provide others with advise along with sharing opinions of speaker wire and various budgeting methods. As commonly repeated, the best way to determine where you stand with cables is to demo them for yourself. If such an opportunity does not exist, your best bet would be to then find a dealer online which allows a trial period with a money-back garauntee. To me, wire is like every other component in audio. I try to find the best products which suits my own needs that falls within a certain budget. I can attest to hearing the differences between mid-fi wire (Monster Z series, M series, MIT Terminators) and your low-fi wire (home depot/lowes, rat shack, monster xp, audioquest standard, lampcord). Though I find no difference between any of the low-fi wires listed above, I can securily vouch for the differences in your more expensive interconnects and speaker cables. The real question then becomes, does the cost of the wire justify the gain in performance? Only your ears and wallet can answer that. If someone feels it necessary to use Transparent cables all the way around on a complete on a JVC theater in a box, then who is to tell them they are wrong? If someone (who shall remain nameless cough ) feels it necessary to use HD wire using Krell and Wilson Watt Puppies, then who is to tell them they are wrong (insanity aside). On a personal note, I try to match my wires with my equipment.... that is just me however. In closing, I believe higher-end cable/wire is worth at least looking into. It never hurts to simply listen, and quite possibly even experiment with.

01-30-2003, 09:28 AM	#5
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	Dan, It keeps coming up because you keep bringing it up. If you call Monster do you REALLY think the guy is going to tell you 'well, maybe you'd be better off with Audioquest?" BDT

01-30-2003, 12:23 PM	#7
TroyD Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (3) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lookin' for fava beans and a nice chianti Posts: 11,209	I know, I know....it just seems like we've been through this whole thing too many times. I apologize, it's been a trying day... BDT

01-30-2003, 12:38 PM	#9
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	TroyD, cable companies like Monster or any other wouldn't tell you to use the OTHER GUYS wire.They would however just might steer you in the right direction for the wires that would work good on your system. You want in on this topic so add to it.How do you deside to buy the right cable for your system? As Stuff pointed out,I started this thead so people can read my advice and discuss how they feel about it(wire that is).Your views on wire are accepted as well.I just wish you would add them instead of looking for a way to bash my post. All things considered,all topics come up.How much is there really to talk about audio and video?Wire is one of those topic's that is like some big mystery.Alot of people,like you,have your guard up against high dollar wire.You have your reasons.Lets hear em. Well ther is alot to be said about speaker cables,innerconnects.Some yield alot of performance and some little.Finding the right cable/wire for the job is whats hard. Shaw we continue?

01-30-2003, 06:34 PM	#11
Zero Stronzo Member Sales Rating: (4) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 7,390	I got some 15ft Monster Z2 bi-wire spades and hooksI will get rid of shortly... ?

01-30-2003, 06:41 PM	#12
polkatese Polk Master Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Victoria Gardens, RC-Calif. Posts: 5,439	Sean, how much are you asking? when? __________________ Connoisseur of obsolete audio: Laser-Disc, DVD-Audio, HD-DVD, Dual-Disc

01-30-2003, 07:35 PM	#13
STUFFMD Polkateer Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 381	Hey Troy, We feel ya man...stay safe in the sandbox. Peace Stuff

01-30-2003, 08:23 PM	#14
Zero Stronzo Member Sales Rating: (4) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 7,390	Polkatese, Any time, really... I payed nearly $160 for the pair (180 if you include shipping). I cannot really afford to loose much money these days, but I could part with them for $130.00.

01-31-2003, 02:12 AM	#15
polkatese Polk Master Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Victoria Gardens, RC-Calif. Posts: 5,439	Sean, thanks for the info, I will let you know when I am ready to pull my next project (7.1) hopefully sooner rather than later....

01-31-2003, 02:38 AM	#17
F1nut Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Mars Hotel Posts: 19,103	PEP Boys too! :lol: __________________ 'Political Correctness'.........defined "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." President of Club Polk

01-31-2003, 07:45 AM	#19
Zero Stronzo Member Sales Rating: (4) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 7,390	Polkatese, Sounds good man. Good luck on the 7.1 system. Out of curiousity, what route are you headed (ie- source, speaker compliment, amps)... ? Sean

01-31-2003, 11:39 AM	#20
polkatese Polk Master Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Victoria Gardens, RC-Calif. Posts: 5,439	Sean, most likely rotel rb-1070, LSi9, but haven't finalised any plan since I need a breather from upgrade fever.....

01-31-2003, 02:21 PM	#21
polkatese Polk Master Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Victoria Gardens, RC-Calif. Posts: 5,439	Dan, I think on one of the threads in the past you had mentioned that you tried several monster cable, including monster custom series (S14/S16, etc), and you concluded m2.4 is the best sounding. I am curious what did you notice the most when you go from say xp-->S14/S16-->Z1/Z2-->m1.4/m2.4-->Sigma?? thanks, fh

01-31-2003, 03:34 PM	#22
Zero Stronzo Member Sales Rating: (4) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 7,390	Sounds great. The LSi-9's wont disappoint you!

01-31-2003, 10:31 PM	#23
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	polkatese, I have own alot of monstercable.I started my run with Monster xp 12-2.It performed well.Then I went to Mcx Bi wires and they sounded alot better.Bought M1.4s bi wires which I still own,and custom 16-2,16-4,14-2 and 14-4. The xp wire compared to the mcx was amazing.I believe some of the benefits where also the bi wire but man they sounded less boomy and tighter on bass.Highs smoothed out some and mid range was more forward.I really liked those cables.Then I got the M1.4s bi wires.They blew away the mcx.I was suprised how much beter then sounded.Clarity and realism was improved.Bass got even tighter.These wires are really good. The custom wires I built byself for demo reasons.The 14-4 I ran on my system for awhile.I went back to the M1.4s. For rear channels I used the 14-2.

01-31-2003, 11:39 PM	#24
nellis8166 Polkateer Member Sales Rating: (0) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New York Posts: 291	I have the MCX bi-wire running to my mains and center and I am very impressed with the performance. __________________ RTi10 CSi5 RTi28 SVS PB12-ISD2 Denon 2106(pre/pro) Adcom 5503(200x3) Audioquest Diamondback ICS Kimber Kable 8tc biwire(mains and center) "Don't let your silly dreams fall in between the crack of the bed and the wall." -J. James

01-31-2003, 11:48 PM	#25
polkatese Polk Master Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Victoria Gardens, RC-Calif. Posts: 5,439	Dan, thanks for your comments. I am happy with the 14-4 but wondering in the back of my mind, how much better can I experience by moving to the Z or M series.....the other route that I am also considering is signalcable speaker cable. I have the analog two i/c and I am very impressed with the build quality and improvement to my system. I might try them out also...now waiting for the right moment to snag lsi9.....

02-01-2003, 12:32 AM	#26
Zero Stronzo Member Sales Rating: (4) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Over Yonder Posts: 7,390	If you decide to go LSi - The difference (especially if bi-wired) will be ...... well.... trust our word, try it out..... and see us later.

02-03-2003, 08:12 AM	#27
mantis Polk Guru Member Sales Rating: (10) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pa Posts: 9,552	Tour2ma, I didn't come up with the term starter wire.I didn't really know what that meant.Someone else came up with that in another thead.

02-03-2003, 07:26 PM	#28
Tour2ma Old School Member Sales Rating: (1) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SE Texas Posts: 9,025	I'm being quiet now... 6 days 23 hours and 58 minutes to go... shhhhh...

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